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In article ,
David Boothroyd wrote: I've never had any problem with getting an Oyster accepted by conductors on RM buses before. Anyone know whether the conductor was right? I'm fairly sure that the conductor was wrong. I have also never seen anyone check a record card sufficently well to mean anything. I've paid for a travelcard which is valid for all buses and I'm damn well not going to restrict myself to the ones with Oyster readers. It's TFL's problem if they can't check my ticket. I concur. -- Good night little fishey-wishes.... I've counted you, so no sneaky eating each other. -- FW (should I worry?) |
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"Mike Bristow" wrote in message ... In article , David Boothroyd wrote: I've never had any problem with getting an Oyster accepted by conductors on RM buses before. Anyone know whether the conductor was right? I'm fairly sure that the conductor was wrong. I have also never seen anyone check a record card sufficently well to mean anything. I've paid for a travelcard which is valid for all buses and I'm damn well not going to restrict myself to the ones with Oyster readers. It's TFL's problem if they can't check my ticket. I concur. IIRC the record card only needs to be carried for National Rail journeys with Oyster travelcards within the zones. (Does anyone know if this was a sop to the TOCs so they would accept Oystercards?). However the advise I read for buses was along the lines 'on buses with on-board crew simply show your Oystercard for the time being', the assumption being that upgraded personal ticket machines with handheld scanners were not far off. I am fairly certain that the conductor was wrong, and the passengers response should have been 'I am fully entitled to use any bus I choose; tell your managers to pull their fingers out and supply you with new machines'. Colin |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:50:08 -0000, "Colin"
wrote: I am fairly certain that the conductor was wrong, and the passengers response should have been 'I am fully entitled to use any bus I choose; tell your managers to pull their fingers out and supply you with new machines'. Given that Routemasters are very much on their way out, I doubt new machines will be provided, as the likely revenue loss from not being able to check the tickets is probably low. That said, I wonder what kind of means will be provided for travelling ticket inspectors on cashless buses to perform a check? Will they need to bring all passengers forward to use the on-bus ticket machine? Or, will the machine be able to print a list of serial numbers which have been used on that journey, so the cards can be checked manually? (Do they have a printed serial number?) Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:50:08 -0000, "Colin"
wrote: snipped, with apologies However the advise I read for buses was along the lines 'on buses with on-board crew simply show your Oystercard for the time being', the assumption being that upgraded personal ticket machines with handheld scanners were not far off. This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance, that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period. Rob |
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I don't think I even have a record card. Purchased a weekly on the internet
a month ago, and it came in a blue DVD type case, but that was it. There was an invoice, but surely I shouldn't have to carry that round with me. JP "Mike Bristow" wrote in message ... In article , David Boothroyd wrote: I've never had any problem with getting an Oyster accepted by conductors on RM buses before. Anyone know whether the conductor was right? I'm fairly sure that the conductor was wrong. I have also never seen anyone check a record card sufficently well to mean anything. I've paid for a travelcard which is valid for all buses and I'm damn well not going to restrict myself to the ones with Oyster readers. It's TFL's problem if they can't check my ticket. I concur. -- Good night little fishey-wishes.... I've counted you, so no sneaky eating each other. -- FW (should I worry?) |
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Neil Williams wrote:
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:50:08 -0000, "Colin" wrote: I am fairly certain that the conductor was wrong, and the passengers response should have been 'I am fully entitled to use any bus I choose; tell your managers to pull their fingers out and supply you with new machines'. Given that Routemasters are very much on their way out, I doubt new machines will be provided, as the likely revenue loss from not being able to check the tickets is probably low. That said, I wonder what kind of means will be provided for travelling ticket inspectors on cashless buses to perform a check? Not what you asked, but I got my Oyster checked with a handheld reader on the WAGN train from Chingford to Liverpool Street the other day (just before Bethnal Green, of course), so portable readers are getting out there. Took him about six times longer than checking a ticket though. |
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I don't think I even have a record card. Purchased a weekly on the internet
a month ago, and it came in a blue DVD type case, but that was it. There was an invoice, but surely I shouldn't have to carry that round with me. I bought a weekly at Kings Cross Met line ticket office, got the Oyster card, a blue wallet and a credit card receipt only. I presume therefore that I don't have a Record Card either, whatever one of those might be! |
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"Rob" _rjayjaycox_at_nildram_dot_co_dot_uk_nodot wrote in message ... Snip This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance, that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period. Rob Ah-ha - so it sounds as if TfL have not got full co-operation from all the TOC's yet. Maybe certain TOCs are holding out to see if TfL will stump up the cash for the readers? Colin |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:25:17 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote: [snip] That said, I wonder what kind of means will be provided for travelling ticket inspectors on cashless buses to perform a check? A hand-held checker has been developed for revenue staff which will be able to interrogate an Oyster. Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
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Some revenue protectors (aka ticket inspectors) have handheld Oyster
readers. Some ask you for the expiry date of the Oyster just to make sure it's yours, others don't. Other RPs w/o handheld readers just glance at the Oyster and the photocard and move on. Nes. -- To reply directly to me, please remove all the spam-deflecting X's! Either that, or simply reply to the group! -- "Neil Williams" wrote in message ... On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:50:08 -0000, "Colin" wrote: I am fairly certain that the conductor was wrong, and the passengers response should have been 'I am fully entitled to use any bus I choose; tell your managers to pull their fingers out and supply you with new machines'. Given that Routemasters are very much on their way out, I doubt new machines will be provided, as the likely revenue loss from not being able to check the tickets is probably low. That said, I wonder what kind of means will be provided for travelling ticket inspectors on cashless buses to perform a check? Will they need to bring all passengers forward to use the on-bus ticket machine? Or, will the machine be able to print a list of serial numbers which have been used on that journey, so the cards can be checked manually? (Do they have a printed serial number?) Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
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"Neil Williams" wrote in message
... Will they need to bring all passengers forward to use the on-bus ticket machine? I don't think that'd work, as the Oyster reader at the driver's position would complain about "passback attempted", which has happened to me a couple of times, when the first read went wrong and the driver asked me to wave the card in front of the reader and that error was generated. Nes. -- To reply directly to me, please remove all the spam-deflecting X's! Either that, or simply reply to the group! -- |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:25:24 +0000 (UTC), "J. Public"
wrote: I don't think I even have a record card. Purchased a weekly on the internet a month ago, and it came in a blue DVD type case, but that was it. There was an invoice, but surely I shouldn't have to carry that round with me. Same here. There was a reference in the documentation that an RC should be enclosed, but I didn't get one. Also noticed that the credit card receipts one gets using the big machines at Tube stations aren't much use, as they only show the date of the transaction, which isn't much use if you're renewing a Travelcard a few days in advance. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
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In message , Robert Woolley
writes On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:25:17 GMT, (Neil Williams) wrote: [snip] That said, I wonder what kind of means will be provided for travelling ticket inspectors on cashless buses to perform a check? A hand-held checker has been developed for revenue staff which will be able to interrogate an Oyster. And read it its rights? -- Kat Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea - Robert A. Heinlein |
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"Nick Cooper" wrote in message ... On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:25:24 +0000 (UTC), "J. Public" wrote: I don't think I even have a record card. Purchased a weekly on the internet a month ago, and it came in a blue DVD type case, but that was it. There was an invoice, but surely I shouldn't have to carry that round with me. Same here. There was a reference in the documentation that an RC should be enclosed, but I didn't get one. Also noticed that the credit card receipts one gets using the big machines at Tube stations aren't much use, as they only show the date of the transaction, which isn't much use if you're renewing a Travelcard a few days in advance. The ticket machines DO issue a record card as well as a credit card receipt. |
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In article ,
Ed Crowley wrote: The ticket machines DO issue a record card as well as a credit card receipt. The little "quick ticket" credit card only ones don't (or didn't, at Archway, for a weekly about three weeks ago). -- Good night little fishey-wishes.... I've counted you, so no sneaky eating each other. -- FW (should I worry?) |
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"Mike Bristow" wrote in message ... In article , Ed Crowley wrote: The ticket machines DO issue a record card as well as a credit card receipt. The little "quick ticket" credit card only ones don't (or didn't, at Archway, for a weekly about three weeks ago). Oh, the touch screen machines do. Maybe it's worth sending an email to tfl to suggest all ticket machines behave the same way? |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:33:58 -0000, Ed Crowley wrote:
The ticket machines DO issue a record card as well as a credit card receipt. The ticket machine at Woodside Park doesn't when selling a weekly. David |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:19:41 -0000, "Ed Crowley"
wrote: Oh, the touch screen machines do. Maybe it's worth sending an email to tfl to suggest all ticket machines behave the same way? Indeed. One could even be posted out when a ticket is purchased online. This is (as I've said before) how MK Metro handle dodgy cards or buses without machines (or with failed ones), and seems a decent enough solution. Obviously won't work for pre-pay, but it is suited to all seasons, and even initially to day travelcards. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
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David Walters wrote the following in:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:33:58 -0000, Ed Crowley wrote: The ticket machines DO issue a record card as well as a credit card receipt. The ticket machine at Woodside Park doesn't when selling a weekly. I got one when I renewed my monthly ticket at Canning Town using a normal ticket machine and paying in cash. -- message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith. Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing". Another high quality lesson from Robin May: Your and you're are different words! |
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On 26 Nov 2003 13:22:28 GMT, Robin May
wrote: David Walters wrote the following in: On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:33:58 -0000, Ed Crowley wrote: The ticket machines DO issue a record card as well as a credit card receipt. The ticket machine at Woodside Park doesn't when selling a weekly. I got one when I renewed my monthly ticket at Canning Town using a normal ticket machine and paying in cash. It's almost as if you've got a choice...You can have EITHER a Credit Card Receipt OR a Record Card, but not both. And then only if you renew at one of the big Multi-Fare Machines. HTH, Barry -- Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce! DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the views of my employers. |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:56:36 -0000, "Colin"
wrote: "Rob" _rjayjaycox_at_nildram_dot_co_dot_uk_nodot wrote in message .. . Snip This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance, that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period. Rob Ah-ha - so it sounds as if TfL have not got full co-operation from all the TOC's yet. Maybe certain TOCs are holding out to see if TfL will stump up the cash for the readers? Well I was involved in talking to the TOCs in the early stages of Prestige (Oyster). Some like C2C were very keen as they were going gated anyway. Others were downright hostile. I think the balance may have tilted a bit given how many are using ticket gates. TfL cannot afford to pay for equipping all TOC gates and actually has no obligation to do so except at Joint Stations where the Tube stops as well. Even there though the discussion will be about mutual benefit because the TOCs will gain benefits from employing Oyster technology. The record card (or Inspection Ticket as I called it in the spec) was always envisaged because there was always the possibility of there being a station where a Travelcard was valid but where gates would never be justified - e.g Sudbury Hill and Harrow on the Chiltern Line. There are LUL / ATOC agreements that govern ticketing technology changes as well as Travelcard, apportionment and Through Ticketing. Quite what has been agreed with the TOCs and how it is being funded now I do not know. I would expect that interesting discussions are going on given TfL's policies about Overground and also the plan to equate the fare scales between National Rail and LUL / Docklands (subject to funding from govt). Once that happens you can expect Oyster and Pre-Pay in particular to be required London wide using gates or validators (as installed at certain LUL and all DLR stns). -- Paul C Admits to Working for London Underground! |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:49:41 +0000, Barry Salter wrote:
It's almost as if you've got a choice...You can have EITHER a Credit Card Receipt OR a Record Card, but not both. And then only if you renew at one of the big Multi-Fare Machines. I tried that this morning. Bought a weekly pass with a credit card and didn't request a receipt. Still no record card :-( David |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:47:34 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:56:36 -0000, "Colin" wrote: "Rob" _rjayjaycox_at_nildram_dot_co_dot_uk_nodot wrote in message . .. Snip This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance, that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period. Rob Ah-ha - so it sounds as if TfL have not got full co-operation from all the TOC's yet. Maybe certain TOCs are holding out to see if TfL will stump up the cash for the readers? Well I was involved in talking to the TOCs in the early stages of Prestige (Oyster). Some like C2C were very keen as they were going gated anyway. Others were downright hostile. I think the balance may have tilted a bit given how many are using ticket gates. TfL cannot afford to pay for equipping all TOC gates and actually has no obligation to do so except at Joint Stations where the Tube stops as well. Even there though the discussion will be about mutual benefit because the TOCs will gain benefits from employing Oyster technology. The record card (or Inspection Ticket as I called it in the spec) was always envisaged because there was always the possibility of there being a station where a Travelcard was valid but where gates would never be justified - e.g Sudbury Hill and Harrow on the Chiltern Line. There are LUL / ATOC agreements that govern ticketing technology changes as well as Travelcard, apportionment and Through Ticketing. Quite what has been agreed with the TOCs and how it is being funded now I do not know. I would expect that interesting discussions are going on given TfL's policies about Overground and also the plan to equate the fare scales between National Rail and LUL / Docklands (subject to funding from govt). Once that happens you can expect Oyster and Pre-Pay in particular to be required London wide using gates or validators (as installed at certain LUL and all DLR stns). I have (s*d's law) just noticed my mistake: it's the RPIs who were advised to show "maximum discretion", I'm sure the faredodgers are using their discretion already! Rob |
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"Phil" wrote in message
m... According to oyster helpline NR staff have been told that if the oyster cannot be read it is to be accepted unconditionally as being valid. Unbelievable! So all you have to do is break it and you have a free open-ended travelcard! -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
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Rob _rjayjaycox_at_nildram_dot_co_dot_uk_nodot wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:50:08 -0000, "Colin" wrote: snipped, with apologies However the advise I read for buses was along the lines 'on buses with on-board crew simply show your Oystercard for the time being', the assumption being that upgraded personal ticket machines with handheld scanners were not far off. This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance, that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period. Rob According to oyster helpline NR staff have been told that if the oyster cannot be read it is to be accepted unconditionally as being valid. I suppose this is more or less the same as extreme discretion in practice. HTH Phil |
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In message , John Rowland
writes "Phil" wrote in message om... According to oyster helpline NR staff have been told that if the oyster cannot be read it is to be accepted unconditionally as being valid. Unbelievable! So all you have to do is break it and you have a free open-ended travelcard! Sigh You lot are always complaining that the present system labels all passengers as criminals; now you're being given the benefit of the doubt and you're still not happy.... -- Kat Frogs have it easy. They can eat what bugs them. |
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