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Tube map May 2010 version
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Tube map May 2010 version
On May 20, 5:43*pm, "Paul Scott" wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf The empty white space between New Cross Gate and London Bridge does look a bit odd when you know what's there. Ditto the space between Waterloo, Vauxhall and Clapham Junction (and indeed CJ to Wimbledon and Richmond), plus the lack of a line from Victoria to CJ too. And then there's the lack of a line between CJ and Balham, and then once you're into this territory you find yourself wanting to start drawing lines all over the map...! Anyhow I bet the inclusion of these SE London stations on the Tube map will also serve to increase awareness and patronage on the existing Southern service to and from London Bridge. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On May 20, 9:43*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf Thank you for posting Paul. It is good to se TfL's increased presence in South London. This is long overdue, and very welcome. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On Thu, 20 May 2010 17:43:12 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf I still don't get the 'interchange' link between Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland. Is there a practical link or do you have to exit on to Dalston Lane or Kingsland Road respectively then cross two busy roads to get to the other station? |
Tube map May 2010 version
On 20 May, 17:43, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf Paul S I notice that it continues the recent tendency not to indicate limited services and connections with dotted lines (or the weird double route through Earls Court that used to be shown). But if limited services are shown as full services, it's about time that a connection was shown between West India and the Beckton line on the DLR. Not sure how long it's been that way, but I don't think it's particularly helpful to have the dagger symbol against stations all over the map, and then for the key to appear to say nothing but "Check before you travel". It took me a while to work out that the daggered sentence in the key is actually the heading for all the information below it, rather than an independent statement. Why check before you travel when all the information is given immediately below, or does it just mean "check this here information before you travel" as opposed to the usual requirement to phone up, check bulletins etc? |
Tube map May 2010 version
On May 20, 6:17*pm, Ivor The Engine wrote: On Thu, 20 May 2010 17:43:12 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf I still don't get the 'interchange' link between Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland. * Is there a practical link or do you have to exit on to Dalston Lane or Kingsland Road respectively then cross two busy roads to get to the other station? The practical link is the pavement. You actually only need to cross the main road(s) *once* - if you come out of Dalston Jn onto Dalston Lane (which the only entrance that's open at the moment), turn left and go to the south-east corner of the junction there's a diagonal crossing across Kingsland High Road to the north-west corner - voila, you're on the right side of the road for Dalston Kingsland station (with a couple of side roads to cross). You can see this crossing in the middle of this Bing Maps bird's eye view - it's sandwiched between the two yellow cross-hatched box junctions: http://www.bing.com/maps/?cp=skqxp7g...12454377&sty=o Of course anyone going to Dalston on the first week of the full ELL service should be aware that the NLL isn't running from Dalston Kinsgland until the beginning of June (replacement buses run instead). Plus the LO network is looking particularly patchy this Sunday - see the maps that Ian of IanVisits has put together here... http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2010...ink-on-sunday/ ----- [1] Unless the new bus station bit/ bus loop to the south has opened in the past few days? |
Tube map May 2010 version
Ivor The Engine wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 17:43:12 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf I still don't get the 'interchange' link between Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland. Is there a practical link or do you have to exit on to Dalston Lane or Kingsland Road respectively then cross two busy roads to get to the other station? It's only a temporary use of the interchange symbol, surely, because once the next extension opens it will be a better bet to carry on to Canonbury and return if heading to/from the east. I'd be surprised if the elongated interchange isn't ditched next year some time... Paul S |
Tube map May 2010 version
"MIG" wrote It took me a while to work out that the daggered sentence in the key is actually the heading for all the information below it, rather than an independent statement. Why check before you travel when all the information is given immediately below, or does it just mean "check this here information before you travel" as opposed to the usual requirement to phone up, check bulletins etc? Possibility of confusion between years and times on the 24 hour cock: Blackfriars Underground station closed until 2011 Cannon Street open until 2100 Peter |
Tube map May 2010 version
On 20 May, 17:43, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf Paul S Pssst,,,,where's Tramlink....? |
Tube map May 2010 version
On 21/05/2010 00:36, Dr. Sunil wrote:
On 20 May, 17:43, "Paul wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf Pssst,,,,where's Tramlink....? That's a *very* good point! There's not much difference between it and the DLR. Whereas it might have looked odd hanging disembodied off Wimbledon in the past, it would look okay now that it links to Croydon too. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On 20/05/2010 20:17, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 18:17:19 +0100, Ivor The Engine wrote: On Thu, 20 May 2010 17:43:12 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf I still don't get the 'interchange' link between Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland. Is there a practical link or do you have to exit on to Dalston Lane or Kingsland Road respectively then cross two busy roads to get to the other station? As Mizter T has indicated you have to cross the roads. However I did that in order to catch a bus towards Tottenham having exited Dalston Junction and it's not too horrendous. Not nice in the pouring rain but I expect there will be a decent flow of people making the change once the NLL reopens in a couple of weeks or so. Clearly the real step up happens when the "round the corner" link is complete to Highbury - personally I can't wait. You can see that the map is "ready" to cope with that extension and also the DLR extension to Stratford International in the summer. It won't take a lot of effort to slot these new links into the tube map as shown via the link above. When is the ELL connection to Highbury & Islington due to open? Or wehn will testing start? |
Tube map May 2010 version
On 21 May, 00:48, Basil Jet wrote:
On 21/05/2010 00:36, Dr. Sunil wrote: On 20 May, 17:43, "Paul *wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf Pssst,,,,where's Tramlink....? That's a *very* good point! There's not much difference between it and the DLR. Whereas it might have looked odd hanging disembodied off Wimbledon in the past, it would look okay now that it links to Croydon too. Especially as it's also down under "London Rail", IIRC? |
Tube map May 2010 version
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Tube map May 2010 version
On May 21, 12:49*am, "
wrote: When is the ELL connection to Highbury & Islington due to open? Or wehn will testing start? No firm dates yet but Jan or Feb 2011 are the dates I've seen suggested in various TfL reports. Oddly the updated London Overground pages on the TfL website say "by May 2011" which is quite a difference in timing but aligns with the national timetable date change. However given the extension has its own dedicated tracks I would guess that it should be possible to just extend certain workings northwards to Highbury while retaining the paths onto the Southern region. I may also be being hopelessly optimistic in that assessment. I have not seen any dates about when testing could commence. -- Paul C via Google |
Tube map May 2010 version
On Fri, 21 May 2010 00:38:16 -0700 (PDT), Paul Corfield
wrote: No firm dates yet but Jan or Feb 2011 are the dates I've seen suggested in various TfL reports. Oddly the updated London Overground pages on the TfL website say "by May 2011" which is quite a difference in timing but aligns with the national timetable date change. Weren't they been publicising the current opening as May 2010, then opened the preview service to the public on a limited timetable. Following the same procedure to H&L would be logical - run a limited service of through trains (e.g. finishing at 2000) then open fully under the May timetable. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On May 20, 12:17*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 18:17:19 +0100, Ivor The Engine wrote: On Thu, 20 May 2010 17:43:12 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf I still don't get the 'interchange' link between Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland. * Is there a practical link or do you have to exit on to Dalston Lane or Kingsland Road respectively then cross two busy roads to get to the other station? As Mizter T has indicated you have to cross the roads. However I did that in order to catch a bus towards Tottenham having exited Dalston Junction and it's not too horrendous. Not nice in the pouring rain but I expect there will be a decent flow of people making the change once the NLL reopens in a couple of weeks or so. Clearly the real step up happens when the "round the corner" link is complete to Highbury - personally I can't wait. *You can see that the map is "ready" to cope with that extension and also the DLR extension to Stratford International in the summer. *It won't take a lot of effort to slot these new links into the tube map as shown via the link above. I think the extension to Highbury will be very useful. It is a pity, IMHO, that it cannot continue to Camden Road, or even Primrose Hill. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On Thu, 20 May 2010 17:43:12 +0100, Paul Scott
wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf Paul S My God, they have trains in Sarf London now ?!? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
Tube map May 2010 version
On Thu, 20 May 2010 18:17:19 +0100, Ivor The Engine
wrote: On Thu, 20 May 2010 17:43:12 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: Mods applied for Sunday's ELL opening http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf I still don't get the 'interchange' link between Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland. Is there a practical link or do you have to exit on to Dalston Lane or Kingsland Road respectively then cross two busy roads to get to the other station? Without knowing the stations involved, I interpreted it as meaning that Dalston Junction was (wheelchair) accessible and Dalston Kingsland was not. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On Mon, 24 May 2010 21:16:56 +0100, Scott
wrote: Without knowing the stations involved, I interpreted it as meaning that Dalston Junction was (wheelchair) accessible and Dalston Kingsland was not. No, there are two different symbols. The wheelchair symbol indicates that Dalston Junction has step-free access; The linked discs indicate an interchange with another line - look at Shadwell or Kings Cross for examples where interchange is at the same station, there are lots more. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:56:51 +0100, Ivor The Engine
wrote: On Mon, 24 May 2010 21:16:56 +0100, Scott wrote: Without knowing the stations involved, I interpreted it as meaning that Dalston Junction was (wheelchair) accessible and Dalston Kingsland was not. No, there are two different symbols. The wheelchair symbol indicates that Dalston Junction has step-free access; The linked discs indicate an interchange with another line - look at Shadwell or Kings Cross for examples where interchange is at the same station, there are lots more. But does the lack of wheelchair symbol on the other line not indicate that only the ELL station has wheelchair access? |
Tube map May 2010 version
On Tue, 25 May 2010 00:37:46 +0100, Scott
wrote: But does the lack of wheelchair symbol on the other line not indicate that only the ELL station has wheelchair access? It's not 'wheelchair access', it's 'step-free access'. People with limited mobility also appreciate knowing they don't have to climb stairs. What you say is correct, but that stands for every other station on the map without the symbol. The two stations are not physically linked to one another, you have to exit one and cross a road to get to the other, making it less of an interchange than it appears to be from the map. If travelling on Oyster, you would have to touch out and touch in, potentially charging you for two journeys (unless the system can recognise that?) |
Tube map May 2010 version
On May 25, 10:21*am, Ivor The Engine wrote: On Tue, 25 May 2010 00:37:46 +0100, Scott wrote: But does the lack of wheelchair symbol on the other line not indicate that only the ELL station has wheelchair access? It's not 'wheelchair access', it's 'step-free access'. *People with limited mobility also appreciate knowing they don't have to climb stairs. What you say is correct, but that stands for every other station on the map without the symbol. *The two stations are not physically linked to one another, you have to exit one and cross a road to get to the other, making it less of an interchange than it appears to be from the map. *If travelling on Oyster, you would have to touch out and touch in, potentially charging you for two journeys (unless the system can recognise that?) Yes, the system can recognise that - it's an Out-of-Station Interchange (OSI) - and in the case of the Dalston stations I'm absolutely certain that an OSI will be configured between them. |
Tube map May 2010 version
If you ignore the wheelchair symbol the Dalston Junction symbol looks the same as the Mile End or Finsbury Park symbols , both of which are cross platform interchanges. I note that Hammersmith has also been changed so that the District and Hammersmith & City stations are joined as one station. I am sure that at one time they were not. Does this show some change in policy on the part of LRT . Is it to indicate that Oyster recognises that travel via those stations is an interchange? The number of circles at the interchanges appear to have no meaning For example Baker Street, which is all one station, has two now, wheras West Hamsptead, which is a Jubilee Line station and an entirely separate North London line station (originally West End Lane) only shows one. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On 25/05/2010 13:26, Paul Rigg wrote:
If you ignore the wheelchair symbol the Dalston Junction symbol looks the same as the Mile End or Finsbury Park symbols , both of which are cross platform interchanges. I note that Hammersmith has also been changed so that the District and Hammersmith & City stations are joined as one station. I am sure that at one time they were not. Does this show some change in policy on the part of LRT . Is it to indicate that Oyster recognises that travel via those stations is an interchange? I would imagine that Hammersmith coalesced when the wheelchair blobs were introduced. The old system of having one interchange blob separated from the other two would obviously no longer work, since the wheelchair blob hides the interchangeness. |
Tube map May 2010 version
On May 25, 1:26*pm, "Paul Rigg" wrote: If you ignore the wheelchair symbol the Dalston Junction symbol looks the same as the Mile End or Finsbury Park symbols , both of which are cross platform interchanges. I note that Hammersmith has also been changed so that the District and Hammersmith & City stations are joined as one station. *I am sure that at one time they were not. *Does this show some change in policy on the part of LRT . *Is it to indicate that Oyster recognises that travel via those stations is an interchange? I think it's nothing more than changed thinking about how to best represent such interchanges - there seems to be various schools of thought on this, and which one has the upper hand shifts over time. (Perhaps market research suggested that many passengers genuinely didn't realise how close the Hammersmith H&C/Circle station was - combined with the increased frequency as a result of the Circle line T- cup changes, this new look on the map might help to persuade more passengers to use it... I'm speculating of course...) Oyster has recognised the Hammersmiths as a valid Out-of-Station Interchange (OSI) since the beginning, I think - so nothing has changed in that regard lately. (Oh, and LRT are long gone!) The number of circles at the interchanges appear to have no meaning *For example Baker Street, which is all one station, *has two now, wheras West Hamsptead, which is a Jubilee Line station and an entirely separate North London line station (originally West End Lane) only shows one. I think it's just the demands of trying to show the lines clearly - don't try and read too much into it. |
Tube map May 2010 version
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Tube map May 2010 version
On 25 May, 22:32, wrote:
In article , (Mizter T) wrote: I think it's nothing more than changed thinking about how to best represent such interchanges - there seems to be various schools of thought on this, and which one has the upper hand shifts over time. (Perhaps market research suggested that many passengers genuinely didn't realise how close the Hammersmith H&C/Circle station was - combined with the increased frequency as a result of the Circle line T-cup changes, this new look on the map might help to persuade more passengers to use it... I'm speculating of course...) Indeed so. Didn't the simplification that included removing the Thames and the zones from the map also amalgamate most multi-disc interchanges into single discs? -- Colin Rosenstiel I think there's a fairly clear principle or two to how they show the interchanges. * If the lines cross and there's no difference in accessibility, there's one disc. * If it's first stop on a shared stretch (with the same pattern) and there's no difference in accessibility, there's one disc. * If the lines come close but but neither cross nor run together with the same pattern, there are linked discs. * If there's any difference in accessibility there are linked discs. Any exceptions to that? |
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