Paul Scott wrote:

The situation has been improved by the acceptance of PAYG on NR.

Previously, at Stratford you could ignore the pads at the end of the
DLR and on the Central platforms and touch out at the barrier.

PAYG on NR has only reduced the numbers of people needing the platform
validators, it hasn't allowed the facility to be removed - they are
basically there for people transferring to/from NR services that extend
beyond zone 6, just like those at Wimbledon.

What happens now if one touches on the platform pads when interchanging?
Does it terminate the PAYG journey completely or does touching out further
down the line make it an unnecessary interchange touch?

On 20 July, 15:16, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Paul Scott wrote:
The situation has been improved by the acceptance of PAYG on NR.
Previously, at Stratford you could ignore the pads at the end of the
DLR and on the Central platforms and touch out at the barrier.
PAYG on NR has only reduced the numbers of people needing the platform
validators, it hasn't allowed the facility to be removed *- they are
basically there for people transferring to/from NR services that extend
beyond zone 6, just like those at Wimbledon.

What happens now if one touches on the platform pads when interchanging?
Does it terminate the PAYG journey completely or does touching out further
down the line make it an unnecessary interchange touch?

Many have been switched off, like at London Bridge. But I was getting
at the fact that there now always has to be something at the NR exit,
whereas in the past you might have missed the platform validator (as
on the DLR at Greenwich) and then not had the opportunity to pass
another one.

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...

What happens now if one touches on the platform pads when interchanging?
Does it terminate the PAYG journey completely or does touching out further
down the line make it an unnecessary interchange touch?

Apparently the system sets a sort of 'partial exit' if you are already
touched in; another poster here, 'Mizter T', coined the term 'soft exit'.
If you aren't already touched in it starts a new journey.

Whatever it is called behind the scenes, the journey can continue. I think
it gets sorted out either at a subsequent proper exit through a gateline, or
after some sort of timeout, whichever comes first.

Paul S

On 20 July, 14:58, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"skyguy" wrote in message

...

The sign at Wimbledon also seems to suggest that you must touch the
pink validator if changing between tube and train, but as far as I can
see almost no one ever does. The confusion isn't helped by the fact
that there's yellow validators on the tube platforms, pink validators
just beyond the platforms, yellow ones on the ticket gates at the top,
and special tram ones on that platform - I think people have learnt to
ignore them unless they have to open a gate.

It isn't a good idea to ignore the tram validator if interchanging either -
if heading onto the tram with PAYG you'll end up with an uncompleted tube/NR
journey depending on origin, and could be caught on the tram without a touch
in. *If coming the other way, you'll be in the paid area without touching
in, so will register an unstarted journey when (if) you eventually touch
out.

The yellow platform validators are needed for PAYG passengers transferring
to/from NR services that extend beyond zone 6. Otherwise said passengers
would have to leave and re-enter the main gateline, adding to the
congestion...

Paul S

The London Bridge situation doesn't particularly help people who are,
say, arriving from Brighton on a paper ticket and wanting to use PAYG
around London. Maybe they've worked out that you'll always have to
pass through a London Terminals barrier at some point where your paper
ticket would be valid, or else have a cross-London ticket. Are there
working interchange validators at Farringdon?

On Jul 20, 3:16*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:

Paul Scott wrote:
The situation has been improved by the acceptance of PAYG on NR.
Previously, at Stratford you could ignore the pads at the end of the
DLR and on the Central platforms and touch out at the barrier.

PAYG on NR has only reduced the numbers of people needing the platform
validators, it hasn't allowed the facility to be removed *- they are
basically there for people transferring to/from NR services that extend
beyond zone 6, just like those at Wimbledon.

What happens now if one touches on the platform pads when interchanging?
Does it terminate the PAYG journey completely or does touching out further
down the line make it an unnecessary interchange touch?

Nothing's changed in the way 'interchange validators' are configured -
but as MIG states they've been turned off at London Bridge (on the NR
Kent through platforms), presumably pending removal at some point - I
suspect this is because they kinda leave a bit of a hole in the system.

On 20 July, 15:44, Mizter T wrote:
On Jul 20, 3:16*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-

wrote:
Paul Scott wrote:
The situation has been improved by the acceptance of PAYG on NR.
Previously, at Stratford you could ignore the pads at the end of the
DLR and on the Central platforms and touch out at the barrier.

PAYG on NR has only reduced the numbers of people needing the platform
validators, it hasn't allowed the facility to be removed *- they are
basically there for people transferring to/from NR services that extend
beyond zone 6, just like those at Wimbledon.

What happens now if one touches on the platform pads when interchanging?
Does it terminate the PAYG journey completely or does touching out further
down the line make it an unnecessary interchange touch?

Nothing's changed in the way 'interchange validators' are configured -
but as MIG states they've been turned off at London Bridge (on the NR
Kent through platforms), presumably pending removal at some point - I
suspect this is because they kinda leave a bit of a hole in the system.

There are so many other holes though ...

Do you mean they would have allowed people to arrive from Brighton
without a ticket and then use PAYG from London Bridge to Charing Cross
(say)?

Wasn't that always possible before, as long as one proceeded to
Farringdon or some such?

On Jul 20, 3:43*pm, MIG wrote:

On 20 July, 14:58, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"skyguy" wrote:

The sign at Wimbledon also seems to suggest that you must touch the
pink validator if changing between tube and train, but as far as I can
see almost no one ever does. The confusion isn't helped by the fact
that there's yellow validators on the tube platforms, pink validators
just beyond the platforms, yellow ones on the ticket gates at the top,
and special tram ones on that platform - I think people have learnt to
ignore them unless they have to open a gate.

It isn't a good idea to ignore the tram validator if interchanging either -
if heading onto the tram with PAYG you'll end up with an uncompleted tube/NR
journey depending on origin, and could be caught on the tram without a touch
in. *If coming the other way, you'll be in the paid area without touching
in, so will register an unstarted journey when (if) you eventually touch
out.

The yellow platform validators are needed for PAYG passengers transferring
to/from NR services that extend beyond zone 6. Otherwise said passengers
would have to leave and re-enter the main gateline, adding to the
congestion...

The London Bridge situation doesn't particularly help people who are,
say, arriving from Brighton on a paper ticket and wanting to use PAYG
around London.

In reality most people arriving from Brighton at London Bridge on a
London Terminals won't be wanting onward travel northbound (into or
through central London) via FCC Thameslink, they'll be transferring to
the Tube (or the bus, or walking from the station etc) - those who do
want onward travel would have sensibly either got a point-to-point
ticket to their destination station (e.g. St Pancras or West
Hampstead), or got an outboundary Day Travelcard from Brighton.

Those arriving in London Bridge for onward travel via suburban
services to destinations in south London could again have got a
through ticket or Travelcard from Brighton, but otherwise if they want
to use Oyster PAYG for such a journey then yes they'd need to pass out
through the gates and then back in using their Oyster card.

In the case of London Bridge I don't think it's really a major issue,
in that I don't think it'll affect that many passengers and for those
it does, it isn't that much of an obstacle.

*Maybe they've worked out that you'll always have to
pass through a London Terminals barrier at some point where your paper
ticket would be valid, or else have a cross-London ticket.


Not quite sure I entirely follow the above in the context of the
discussion, but I think I'm being a bit dense.

Are there working interchange validators at Farringdon?


Good question - I'd expect the ones at Farringdon have remained
operational because of the large flow of passengers from outside of
London who'd want to start or end an Oyster PAYG journey when
transferring to the Underground - but I can't answer definitively as I
haven't noticed either way when passing through recently.

On 20 July, 16:03, Mizter T wrote:
On Jul 20, 3:43*pm, MIG wrote:





On 20 July, 14:58, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"skyguy" wrote:

The sign at Wimbledon also seems to suggest that you must touch the
pink validator if changing between tube and train, but as far as I can
see almost no one ever does. The confusion isn't helped by the fact
that there's yellow validators on the tube platforms, pink validators
just beyond the platforms, yellow ones on the ticket gates at the top,
and special tram ones on that platform - I think people have learnt to
ignore them unless they have to open a gate.

It isn't a good idea to ignore the tram validator if interchanging either -
if heading onto the tram with PAYG you'll end up with an uncompleted tube/NR
journey depending on origin, and could be caught on the tram without a touch
in. *If coming the other way, you'll be in the paid area without touching
in, so will register an unstarted journey when (if) you eventually touch
out.

The yellow platform validators are needed for PAYG passengers transferring
to/from NR services that extend beyond zone 6. Otherwise said passengers
would have to leave and re-enter the main gateline, adding to the
congestion...

The London Bridge situation doesn't particularly help people who are,
say, arriving from Brighton on a paper ticket and wanting to use PAYG
around London.

In reality most people arriving from Brighton at London Bridge on a
London Terminals won't be wanting onward travel northbound (into or
through central London) via FCC Thameslink, they'll be transferring to
the Tube (or the bus, or walking from the station etc) - those who do
want onward travel would have sensibly either got a point-to-point
ticket to their destination station (e.g. St Pancras or West
Hampstead), or got an outboundary Day Travelcard from Brighton.

Those arriving in London Bridge for onward travel via suburban
services to destinations in south London could again have got a
through ticket or Travelcard from Brighton, but otherwise if they want
to use Oyster PAYG for such a journey then yes they'd need to pass out
through the gates and then back in using their Oyster card.

In the case of London Bridge I don't think it's really a major issue,
in that I don't think it'll affect that many passengers and for those
it does, it isn't that much of an obstacle.

*Maybe they've worked out that you'll always have to
pass through a London Terminals barrier at some point where your paper
ticket would be valid, or else have a cross-London ticket.

Not quite sure I entirely follow the above in the context of the
discussion, but I think I'm being a bit dense.

Well, basically what you said. To get off at, say, Charing Cross,
they'd be covered by their ticket to London Terminals anyway. To go
to St Pancreas or beyond directly, they'd have to have a paper ticket
to somewhere beyond London Terminals (is the extra more than adding
the PAYG?). So the issue was can they validly arrive at London
Terminals and not face a barrier or other validator before changing to
LU, and the possible place was Farringdon, if I've understood that
correctly.


Are there working interchange validators at Farringdon?

Good question - I'd expect the ones at Farringdon have remained
operational because of the large flow of passengers from outside of
London who'd want to start or end an Oyster PAYG journey when
transferring to the Underground - but I can't answer definitively as I
haven't noticed either way when passing through recently.

There are Oystered, but unbarriered, exits at Waterloo East and
Charing Cross in the meantime, which one would have thought were
bigger holes than having them on the platform at London Bridge.

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:58:20 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

It isn't a good idea to ignore the tram validator if interchanging either -
if heading onto the tram with PAYG you'll end up with an uncompleted tube/NR
journey depending on origin, and could be caught on the tram without a touch
in.

Yes, but...

If coming the other way, you'll be in the paid area without touching
in, so will register an unstarted journey when (if) you eventually touch
out.

You'll have touched in before getting on the tram... The touch out
follows where you eventually leave the system. Validating at
Wimbledon on the platform after leaving the tram would mean you pay
another tram fare wouldn't it? I'm *sure* this is what happened to me
once when I misunderstood the rules. (In fact, I think I paid three
times but that's another story...)

Richard.

"Richard" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:58:20 +0100, "Paul Scott"

If coming the other way, you'll be in the paid area without touching
in, so will register an unstarted journey when (if) you eventually touch
out.

You'll have touched in before getting on the tram... The touch out
follows where you eventually leave the system. Validating at
Wimbledon on the platform after leaving the tram would mean you pay
another tram fare wouldn't it? I'm *sure* this is what happened to me
once when I misunderstood the rules. (In fact, I think I paid three
times but that's another story...)

If Wimbledon tram stop was outside the station, the main gateline wouldn't
give a toss whether you'd arrived by bus, tram or on foot would it, it would
start a new journey. We've discussed this a few times before, you do have to
touch again at Wimbledon, whether interchanging or exiting...

Paul S