On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 01:11:04PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

Dunno, but I don't get paid extra, and have often had to spend Sundays
travelling to overseas meetings, which frequently clash with UK Bank
Holiday Mondays.

A reasonable employer would give you TOIL for both the time spent
travelling and the time spent working.

--
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

I think the most difficult moment that anyone could face is seeing
their domestic servants, whether maid or drivers, run away
-- Abdul Rahman Al-Sheikh, writing at
http://www.arabnews.com/?article=38558

In message , at 12:29:37
on Tue, 16 Nov 2010, David Cantrell remarked:

Dunno, but I don't get paid extra, and have often had to spend Sundays
travelling to overseas meetings, which frequently clash with UK Bank
Holiday Mondays.

A reasonable employer would give you TOIL for both the time spent
travelling and the time spent working.

I'm self employed, so I'll have to have a word with myself about that!

--
Roland Perry

On Nov 10, 12:43*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
04:31:39 on Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Paul remarked:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11725128

What I don't quite understand is what are ASLEF complaining about if
there is a long standing agreeement covering working arrangements on
Boxing Day. Are they just pushing their luck?

* * * * "The spokesman said: "It used to be almost guaranteed that if
* * * * you worked one bank holiday, you would not work the next. But
* * * * the increase in service levels has meant this is now no longer
* * * * possible.

* * * * "We are not opposed to additional services for customers, but we
* * * * believe that there are times when staff need to be appropriately
* * * * compensated for working at highly unsocial times - and that
* * * * includes Boxing Day."

But, of course, the 26th isn't a Bank Holiday this year. Or are they
talking about the 28th, or was that the 27th (cont'd page 94).

(I knew that there was a reason for worrying about the Bank Holiday
arrangements this year!)
--
Roland Perry

I am rostered to work Christmas day NIGHTS this year, as there is no
work for me I have to take a days leave.

I am rostered to work Boxing day NIGHTS this year. As it is a Sunday I
have a right to decline to work it, as it is a Sunday. However I am
"expected" to work my Sundays, despite them not being part of my 37
hour week. The only time that I am not "expected" to work a Sunday is
if it is part of a weeks leave.

So this Christmas I will work Christmas Eve night. Annual Leave on
Christmas Day. Work Boxing Day night and then nights on Monday 27th
and 28th, with a rest day on the 29th.

I will be paid NORMAL wages for all of this, NO ENHANCEMENTS what ever
other than the Sunday rate on 26th, which is "paid at time". For the
Bank Holiday on Monday and Tuesday 27th and 28th I will recieve NO
Compensatory leave.

The only good thing about all of the forgoing is that I think
Christmas is one of the most over rated and pointless times of the
year. I fully acceopt that some people will besmirch my comments on
religous grounds for which I have some sympathy, but the adverts
already on TV, the aisles in my local supermarket and the "I've
started my shopping have you" simply feeds my "humbug"

Anyway, next year I will be on exactly the same roster over Christams
(a 4 week roster causes that) the only difference is that I will not
have to take leave on Chritmas day, as it's a Sunday. Instead I will
simply LOOSE a 123 hour Sunday payment, but I will gain a compensatory
day for the 26th as it falls on a "real" Bank Holiday.


It is my suspicion that some of the ASLEF issues are based on
something similar to my story, the difference being that I am a
manager so do it for the love of the company without question !


Richard

In message
, at
08:12:31 on Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Fat richard
remarked:

I am rostered to work Christmas day NIGHTS this year, as there is no
work for me I have to take a days leave.

....

I will be paid NORMAL wages for all of this, NO ENHANCEMENTS what ever
other than the Sunday rate on 26th, which is "paid at time".

I don't understand this - you say Sundays are different, but then "paid
at time".

For the Bank Holiday on Monday and Tuesday 27th and 28th I will recieve
NO Compensatory leave.

While I'm also in the "no extra pay for working statutory holidays" camp
(and also "no extra pay for Sundays"), I do feel you are hard done by
with that lockout on Xmas night. They really ought to pay you.

--
Roland Perry

On Nov 12, 5:22*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
I don't understand this - you say Sundays are different, but then "paid
at time".


I work a 37 hour week covering Monday to Saturday all shifts (early
late and nights) This requires 4 people to cover the shifts and one
extra as a "relief". Over 8 weeks there are 8 hours left in the kitty
of a training day.

For these shifts I receive a fixed salary with no enhancements for
unsocial hours.

I am required to work 2 Sundays in the 4 week period, both 12 hours,
one night and one day. These are paid at "time". As I said before I am
required to work these unless they are part of a leave week, some
people will work them for you - but it is your responsibilty to get
them "covered" and of course the company don't lose out financially.
It is as close to rostered overtime as you can get. If I am required
to do any overtime (stay on 4 hours, work a rest day, attend a meeting
on my day off) this is paid at time.

I have spent 27 years doing shift work and I suspect about 24/25 of
these have been on 24/7 rosters. Back in the 80s and 90s I worked to
"the red book" (which still exists) and covers "BR" style grades which
attracted much lower salaries and much higher enhancements, for
example a Saturday night rest day worked attracted double time after
midnight. But of course being a lower salary attracts a lower pension
contribution.

And going slightly further away from the original point......

The type of salary and roster I am on were pretty much invented by
CONnex and whilst a lot of people struggled, indeed some still do to
this day, to come to terms with it, I actually find it most agreeable.
My pensionable pay is now 100% so on a much higher "clean" salary it
is no bad thing and despite all of the recent horror stories, railway
pensions are still regarded very highly. I found it very easy indeed
to adapt to the "new way"and very rarely find myself thinking about
what I would have been getting on rest day works or Sundays.

An awful lot of the staff that were regraded into management grades
were on the "red book" conditions and had some quite good redundancy
terms so these were swept away and records in Croydon Courts will show
that the summary dismissal of numerous regraded staff after they had
signed contracts, and thus lost a hell of a lot of money, did not save
CONnex the money they originally envisaged !

All of that said I know that some of what I have said may come over as
being a grump, but actually I am genuinely VERY happy with my lot, and
despite the foibles of Christmas I personally dont have a problem with
the conditions at all. It is a fairly unique position to be in, as
just about all non shift working managers won't get a penny extra for
doing extra hours and most importantly I am lucky to have a job that I
genuinely enjoy and I think I would struggle to adapt to a 9-5 life.

Richard

In article ,
Paul wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11725128

What I don't quite understand is what are ASLEF complaining about if
there is a long standing agreeement covering working arrangements on
Boxing Day. Are they just pushing their luck?

I am sure they are currently preparing their excuses for threatening
to strike during the Olympic Games.

You mean the tube runs on Boxing Day? If so, it must be just about
the only rail service that does.

-roy

In article , (Roy
Badami) wrote:

In article
,
Paul wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11725128

What I don't quite understand is what are ASLEF complaining about if
there is a long standing agreeement covering working arrangements on
Boxing Day. Are they just pushing their luck?

I am sure they are currently preparing their excuses for threatening
to strike during the Olympic Games.

You mean the tube runs on Boxing Day? If so, it must be just about
the only rail service that does.

In England maybe.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Nov 10, 10:03*pm, wrote:

In article ,
(Roy Badami) wrote:

Paul wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11725128

What I don't quite understand is what are ASLEF complaining about if
there is a long standing agreeement covering working arrangements on
Boxing Day. Are they just pushing their luck?

I am sure they are currently preparing their excuses for threatening
to strike during the Olympic Games.

You mean the tube runs on Boxing Day? *

Yep.

If so, it must be just about the only rail service that does.

In England maybe.

No - there's a few Southern and Southeastern services, plus (reduced)
airport express services.

This webpage details what happened last year (Xmas 2009):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/london/h...00/8413759.stm

For the record, I'll copy and paste the relevant bits below:

---quote---
* Gatwick Express
Boxing Day - a half-hourly service.

* Heathrow Express
Boxing Day - Saturday service.

* Southeastern
Boxing Day - limited Southeastern service will run on the following
routes: Victoria to Orpington via Herne Hill, Victoria to Gillingham,
Victoria to Slade Green via Bexleyheath, Victoria to Slade Green via
Woolwich Arsenal, Victoria to Ashford International

* Southern
Boxing Day - limited service between Victoria and Brighton, London
Bridge to East Croydon via Norwood Junction and London Bridge and East
Croydon via Selhurst.

* Stansted Express
Boxing Day, Sunday 27th December, Bank Holiday Monday 28th December -
services will only run between Tottenham Hale and Stansted Airport.
---/quote---

I haven't checked what Southern and Southeastern are running this
year, though I understand from a comment on uk.r that SE aren't
running the service to Gillingham.

I have however checked the airport express services - all are running:
the HEx website states it'll be running every 20 minutes; GatEx
appears to be half-hourly albeit with a slightly extended journey
time; Stansted Express is again seemingly only running to/from
Tottenham Hale (for onward connections via the Tube - if it runs...) -
FWIW, all StEx trains appear to be stopping at both Bishops Stortford
and Harlow Town, should anyone want to come into London via that
route. Oh, and Eurostar runs on Boxing Day too, if that counts.

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

You mean the tube runs on Boxing Day? *

Yep.

If so, it must be just about the only rail service that does.

In England maybe.

No - there's a few Southern and Southeastern services, plus (reduced)
airport express services.

You're overlooking Scotland with a full(ish) service.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:

(Mizter T) wrote:

You mean the tube runs on Boxing Day?

Yep.

If so, it must be just about the only rail service that does.

In England maybe.

No - there's a few Southern and Southeastern services, plus (reduced)
airport express services.

You're overlooking Scotland with a full(ish) service.


No, I haven't - I was just responding to your "In England maybe" comment.