"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On Nov 18, 12:00 am, "Q" ..@.. wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

On Nov 17, 8:55 pm, "Q" ..@.. wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote:

No it wasn't a waste of money. If you think about the operating
concept
then it is absolutely essential that passengers who do not have an
Oyster card, one day travelcard or saver ticket have the ability to
buy
the ticket to use the service. Otherwise you leave people in limbo
which is not acceptable when you have a penalty fares scheme.

What would of been good was to retain the machines at busy places and
fit
oyster pads to them to allow topup/balance check

That would be useful and of course it's hardly the first time it's
been suggested, but one should bear in mind the current machines are
little more than basic parking ticket machines.

(p.s. I didn't mean for the first half of that sentence to come across
in a dismissive way!)

That's OK - I know what you mean though.


This is very true - maybe it's time to put buses 'online' then. They
already
have the machines, the reader/writer pads etc.

There is already GPRS/3G and MPT1327 - any of those could provide a data
barer.

I wouldn't back that at all - the massive benefit of Oyster w.r.t.
buses is quicker boarding (and it really is a benefit), so introducing
such transactions would negate that benefit, indeed it could really
slow things down.

Maybe I gave the wrong impression - I'm not talking about top ups or
anything silly like that - I agree it would cause chaos and slow things down
to out of London cash speeds.

I was more thinking season ticket collection etc from the main machine - and
using the small reader pads ex bendy for things like credit checking in a
stand alone environment (as in the original thought with the machines above.

It would also save the entire driver code thing when there's a tube/DLR/tram
problem and people are pushed onto buses and get double charged etc.

You could install a proper TVM in a bus 'station' (Edmonton Green, Walthem
Cross type setup's) with out much overhead. There is already power, security
and data connections to those sites and a couple of machines would be very
very useful.

cynical mode
And just think - if buses went online TfL and anyone they 'sell' the data
too could have a whole set of new real-time metrics to report
against/use/abuse.
/cynical mode

Also my news reader is having a fit and not indenting past posts sometimes -
hopefully it wont get too messy.

On Nov 17, 6:42*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 06:46:30 -0800 (PST), George

wrote:
On Nov 13, 6:38*pm, (Roy Badami) wrote:
Thanks, Paul, very helpful.

Interesting (and slightly surprising) that they're removing pay as you
board from routes -- it seems a waste of resources to have to go
around removing perfectly good ticket machines.

Roy it was installing the ticket machines in the first place that was
a waste of money, hardly anybody uses them.

Hello George! *Another place for you to post.

No it wasn't a waste of money. If you think about the operating concept
then it is absolutely essential that passengers who do not have an
Oyster card, one day travelcard or saver ticket have the ability to buy
the ticket to use the service. *Otherwise you leave people in limbo
which is not acceptable when you have a penalty fares scheme.

The fact that off bus ticket sales are at very high levels courtesy of
Oyster is what means that usage of roadside machines is low. Please get
the concepts in the right order.
--
Paul C

Hello Paul, you never know where I might pop up from!

Yes I accept what you are saying but my point is the whole open
boarding system which includes the need for roadside machines is a
waste of money. Far easier that passengers pay the driver and don't
get me started on that ridiculous 'cashless zone' idea in Central
London! Occasionally somebody will buy a one day bus pass from the
machines but other than that they see very little use.

In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:
Well you can, of course, choose to completely ignore the basis of the
business case for cashless boarding and the associated time savings for
passengers, reduced dwell times and other factors if you wish. Just
because you only assess things with the evidence of your eyes does not
make you correct and everybody else wrong.

On reflection, I can see the argument for the machines in the central
zone, where there will be many more tourists and other vistors from
out of town, but elsewhere it would probably have been adequate to let
the occasional cash customer purchase their ticket from the driver.
The price differential between cash and Oyster fares ensures that
Londoners will be using Oyster anyway.

-roy