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Ticket Barrier Construction
At Kings cross a few weeks ago I saw some wooden boxes and then a week
later ticket barriers. What is the purpose of the wood? Is it there to act as some sort of matrix, or are the barriers slotted over it. The wooden blocks does look a bit flimsy, how is it reinforced? Does anyone know how these barriers are actually installed. They had a similar setup on LU about 10 yrs ago when barriers were installed. |
Ticket Barrier Construction
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Ticket Barrier Construction
On Feb 11, 12:49*pm, GSV 3 minds in a can wrote:
At Kings cross a few weeks ago I saw some wooden boxes and then a week later ticket barriers. What is the purpose of the wood? Is it there to act as some sort of matrix, or are the barriers slotted over it. The wooden blocks does look a bit flimsy, how is it reinforced? Does anyone know how these barriers are actually installed. They had a similar setup on LU about 10 yrs ago when barriers were installed. If I remember correctly the wooden boxes are placed to protect the wiring for the gates and are then removed when the gates are ready to be installed. If it is a particularly large gate array being fitted you will sometimes see a mixture of boxes and gates together. |
Ticket Barrier Construction
On a slightly different note is there any way that this gateline can
plausibly cope with a crush loaded East Coast train arriving or is this just a plot to make train travel as unpleasant as possible. -roy |
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Ticket Barrier Construction
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:59:47 -0600, Roy Badami wrote:
On a slightly different note is there any way that this gateline can plausibly cope with a crush loaded East Coast train arriving or is this just a plot to make train travel as unpleasant as possible. Plenty of other stations are like that - a morning peak Shenfield train coming into Liverpool St takes quite a while to get through the barriers. I would doubt this would put Network Rail off at Kings Cross either. |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In message , at 13:01:21 on Sun, 13 Feb
2011, Martin Petrov remarked: On a slightly different note is there any way that this gateline can plausibly cope with a crush loaded East Coast train arriving or is this just a plot to make train travel as unpleasant as possible. Plenty of other stations are like that - a morning peak Shenfield train coming into Liverpool St takes quite a while to get through the barriers. I would doubt this would put Network Rail off at Kings Cross either. And somewhat closer to home, a packed 8-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross Suburban. -- Roland Perry |
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Ticket Barrier Construction
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote: In message , at 07:07:29 on Sun, 13 Feb 2011, remarked: However, the three eastern-most gates in the line of gates along the buffers are marked "in" on the plans; although in practice I suspect the in/out-ness of the gates will be subject to short and long term change. That is better than I was told by people running the various exhibitions I have seen but still requires a screen showing departure information in that area. So why remove the one that was there? Maybe another will replace it, eventually. [Was this a small screen, or do you mean the main multi-scrolling screen(s)] Not that small. Like the side screens on the main concourse. Still hard to explain why they took it out now. They are also refusing point blank to replace the screen in the tube subway and are proud to make every passenger walk through to the Northern ticket hall to find out whether they need the suburban or main sheds. Evil *******s. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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Ticket Barrier Construction
"Roland Perry" wrote: In message , at 15:25:35 on Sun, 13 Feb 2011, remarked: On a slightly different note is there any way that this gateline can plausibly cope with a crush loaded East Coast train arriving or is this just a plot to make train travel as unpleasant as possible. Plenty of other stations are like that - a morning peak Shenfield train coming into Liverpool St takes quite a while to get through the barriers. I would doubt this would put Network Rail off at Kings Cross either. And somewhat closer to home, a packed 8-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross Suburban. How about a packed 12-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross main shed? I wasn't aware that these were currently arriving at barriered platforms, but if you say they are, then that would be another way to predict how much chaos would ensue when an Intercity arrives at a barriered platform. Other London termini stations have gates and 12 car trains too - thus far sky hasn't fallen in. |
Ticket Barrier Construction
wrote: [snip] They are also refusing point blank to replace the screen in the tube subway and are proud to make every passenger walk through to the Northern ticket hall to find out whether they need the suburban or main sheds. Evil *******s. Was this a screen in the passageway between the (old) main ticket hall and the northern ticket hall? If so I guess it's always possible that it was causing congestion. |
Ticket Barrier Construction
"Mizter T" wrote: [snip] Plenty of other stations are like that - a morning peak Shenfield train coming into Liverpool St takes quite a while to get through the barriers. I would doubt this would put Network Rail off at Kings Cross either. And somewhat closer to home, a packed 8-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross Suburban. How about a packed 12-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross main shed? I wasn't aware that these were currently arriving at barriered platforms, but if you say they are, then that would be another way to predict how much chaos would ensue when an Intercity arrives at a barriered platform. Other London termini stations have gates and 12 car trains too - thus far sky hasn't fallen in. ....which is much the same point that Martin Petrov was making upthread. |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In message , at 11:35:23 on
Mon, 14 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked: They are also refusing point blank to replace the screen in the tube subway and are proud to make every passenger walk through to the Northern ticket hall to find out whether they need the suburban or main sheds. Evil *******s. Was this a screen in the passageway between the (old) main ticket hall and the northern ticket hall? If so I guess it's always possible that it was causing congestion. Colin could be referring to the one in the *old* passageway (at the junction where you went left then outside for the suburban platforms, and right for the main concourse), rather than a more recent one that's been installed and taken away again. -- Roland Perry |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In message , at 11:38:04 on
Mon, 14 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked: Other London termini stations have gates and 12 car trains too - thus far sky hasn't fallen in. ...which is much the same point that Martin Petrov was making upthread. I think we almost all share this view. Although when Roy said "cope with", I wonder if he meant "without a queue developing". -- Roland Perry |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote: In message , at 15:25:35 on Sun, 13 Feb 2011, remarked: They are also refusing point blank to replace the screen in the tube subway and are proud to make every passenger walk through to the Northern ticket hall to find out whether they need the suburban or main sheds. Evil *******s. The plan, as I said yesterday, is to make everyone "emerge" from the Northern ticket hall into the spaceship above, and disperse to their trains from there. Everything else is ether an exit flow or a disparaged short cut. Like I said, control freakery Tony Blair would have been proud of. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote: In message , at 15:25:35 on Sun, 13 Feb 2011, remarked: On a slightly different note is there any way that this gateline can plausibly cope with a crush loaded East Coast train arriving or is this just a plot to make train travel as unpleasant as possible. Plenty of other stations are like that - a morning peak Shenfield train coming into Liverpool St takes quite a while to get through the barriers. I would doubt this would put Network Rail off at Kings Cross either. And somewhat closer to home, a packed 8-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross Suburban. How about a packed 12-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross main shed? I wasn't aware that these were currently arriving at barriered platforms, but if you say they are, then that would be another way to predict how much chaos would ensue when an Intercity arrives at a barriered platform. Only more so! Where do the current 12-car services arrive in the mornings? If at any of platforms 0-3 (4 & 5 are out of action) then it will be happening now at least occasionally. When I arrive on the 09:20 at platform 11 as often as not they leave the gates open. The staff opened the gates in front of me this morning. They weren't close enough to check the ticket I was holding in my hand. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Ticket Barrier Construction
On 14 Feb, 12:45, wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 15:25:35 on Sun, 13 Feb 2011, remarked: On a slightly different note is there any way that this gateline can plausibly cope with a crush loaded East Coast train arriving or is this just a plot to make train travel as unpleasant as possible. Plenty of other stations are like that - a morning peak Shenfield train coming into Liverpool St takes quite a while to get through the barriers. I would doubt this would put Network Rail off at Kings Cross either. And somewhat closer to home, a packed 8-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross Suburban. How about a packed 12-car FCC arriving at Kings Cross main shed? I wasn't aware that these were currently arriving at barriered platforms, but if you say they are, then that would be another way to predict how much chaos would ensue when an Intercity arrives at a barriered platform. Only more so! Where do the current 12-car services arrive in the mornings? If at any of platforms 0-3 (4 & 5 are out of action) then it will be happening now at least occasionally. When I arrive on the 09:20 at platform 11 as often as not they leave the gates open. The staff opened the gates in front of me this morning. They weren't close enough to check the ticket I was holding in my hand. -- Colin Rosenstiel- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - What happens regarding Hull Trains and Grand Central where passengers are able to buy tickets on board? |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In message
, at 05:22:16 on Mon, 14 Feb 2011, George remarked: What happens regarding Hull Trains and Grand Central where passengers are able to buy tickets on board? Apparently what's happened at other stations with barriers is that this "buy on board" facility no longer exists. There's been a suggestion that these trains might use Platform 8 at Kings Cross in the mean time, as that will be the last one to be barriered off (I have no idea when that's going to happen, but I would expect it to be after they've finished the new ticket hall). -- Roland Perry |
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In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote: In message , at 07:48:03 on Mon, 14 Feb 2011, remarked: Colin could be referring to the one in the *old* passageway (at the junction where you went left then outside for the suburban platforms, and right for the main concourse), rather than a more recent one that's been installed and taken away again. I was indeed referring to the old one. I'm not aware of anything since then. The old one wasn't that old. I remember complaining that it was needed shortly after starting work in London in 2001. It's needed now so as then that passengers know which way to turn, for the main or suburban platforms, as they emerge from the tube. Why not head along the passage towards the Northern ticket hall, then up the stairs to emerge in the old upstairs concourse (which will eventually be outdoors). Is there a sign on platform 8, or is it necessary to find the main departure board from there (which will disappear soon as that's going to be outdoors as well). It's at the bottom of those stairs that the screen is needed. Up the stairs for platforms 0-8, straight ahead for platforms 9-11. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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Ticket Barrier Construction
"Roland Perry" wrote: In message , at 11:48:39 on Mon, 14 Feb 2011, remarked: Why not head along the passage towards the Northern ticket hall, then up the stairs to emerge in the old upstairs concourse (which will eventually be outdoors). Is there a sign on platform 8, or is it necessary to find the main departure board from there (which will disappear soon as that's going to be outdoors as well). It's at the bottom of those stairs that the screen is needed. Up the stairs for platforms 0-8, straight ahead for platforms 9-11. Looking ahead to the final configuration, those stairs are mainly an entrance to the Underground, being outdoors and the natural feed from the barriers along the southern face of the station. To get to any of the platforms will require an awkward U-turn back towards the "dome". So it's pretty clear they want you to exit via the northern ticket hall and thence to the mainline platforms via the new bridge, or rather more directly to the suburban platforms. I think we are all perhaps underestimating the extent to which there's this clockwise one-way system. South along the mainline platforms through the gates to the new plaza, and then through the domed area via the bridge to the platforms. You can't get to the ticket office, suburban platforms or St Pancras without that detour, and they seem quite keen to stop people taking a short cut to the mainline platforms. It's all fine and wonderful if the ECML is a faux airline and KGX a faux airline terminal, but commuter trains in the main shed are not going to be a good fit. I wonder if I'm the only person who hasn't already firmly settled on the view that the new KX is going to be a complete disaster?! |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In message , at 11:14:09 on
Tue, 15 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked: It's all fine and wonderful if the ECML is a faux airline and KGX a faux airline terminal, but commuter trains in the main shed are not going to be a good fit. I wonder if I'm the only person who hasn't already firmly settled on the view that the new KX is going to be a complete disaster?! It's all a bit curate's egg. While it's nice to revert to the original shed, without extensions to the front, that has resulted in most passenger arrivals being a very long way from anywhere useful (given that the overbridge is one-way, departures only). The northern ticket hall gives a very useful shorter route to the northern line platforms, and is OK for the Piccadilly, but a disaster for the Victoria. From the country end of platforms 0-7, to the Northern ticket hall (or St Pancras), is a *very* long walk. On the other hand, if you are departing, the new National Rail ticket hall is close to the Northern/Piccadilly (and St Pancras), and a very short distance to all platforms, 0-11. -- Roland Perry |
Ticket Barrier Construction
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... In message , at 11:48:39 I think we are all perhaps underestimating the extent to which there's this clockwise one-way system. South along the mainline platforms through the gates to the new plaza, and then through the domed area via the bridge to the platforms. You can't get to the ticket office, suburban platforms or St Pancras without that detour, and they seem quite keen to stop people taking a short cut to the mainline platforms. Sorry Roland, but you seem to be rather fixed on the idea that the main entrance flow will be via the footbridge, but all the evidence is that it is scaled for only about 20% of the entrance flows, in terms of numbers of barriers, and its access is from the catering floor through a relatively small opening in the western offices. The main entrance flow is clearly via the southern end of the new ticket hall at ground level, which is why the large space is being created at the buffer stop end of (current) platforms 5-8. It's also presumably why the vast majority of the waiting area for passengers is on the ground floor - that's where there's a large area of seating. Paul S |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In message , at 11:39:06 on
Tue, 15 Feb 2011, Paul Scott remarked: I think we are all perhaps underestimating the extent to which there's this clockwise one-way system. South along the mainline platforms through the gates to the new plaza, and then through the domed area via the bridge to the platforms. You can't get to the ticket office, suburban platforms or St Pancras without that detour, and they seem quite keen to stop people taking a short cut to the mainline platforms. Sorry Roland, but you seem to be rather fixed on the idea that the main entrance flow will be via the footbridge, I'm prepared to relax that view; but one thing's for sure, you can't go from the platforms to the west via the overbridge. but all the evidence is that it is scaled for only about 20% of the entrance flows, in terms of numbers of barriers, and its access is from the catering floor through a relatively small opening in the western offices. The main entrance flow is clearly via the southern end of the new ticket hall at ground level, which is why the large space is being created at the buffer stop end of (current) platforms 5-8. That's still got a substantial "clockwise" component, as you have to first get into the new National Rail ticket hall before you can access those departure barriers. It's also presumably why the vast majority of the waiting area for passengers is on the ground floor - that's where there's a large area of seating. That doesn't necessarily follow. The same (downstairs seating/waiting) is true of the Eurostar departure lounge next door at St Pancras, where the trains are accessed "upstairs" once they've announced which platform it is. -- Roland Perry |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote: In message , at 11:48:39 on Mon, 14 Feb 2011, remarked: Why not head along the passage towards the Northern ticket hall, then up the stairs to emerge in the old upstairs concourse (which will eventually be outdoors). Is there a sign on platform 8, or is it necessary to find the main departure board from there (which will disappear soon as that's going to be outdoors as well). It's at the bottom of those stairs that the screen is needed. Up the stairs for platforms 0-8, straight ahead for platforms 9-11. Looking ahead to the final configuration, those stairs are mainly an entrance to the Underground, being outdoors and the natural feed from the barriers along the southern face of the station. To get to any of the platforms will require an awkward U-turn back towards the "dome". So it's pretty clear they want you to exit via the northern ticket hall and thence to the mainline platforms via the new bridge, or rather more directly to the suburban platforms. I think we are all perhaps underestimating the extent to which there's this clockwise one-way system. South along the mainline platforms through the gates to the new plaza, and then through the domed area via the bridge to the platforms. You can't get to the ticket office, suburban platforms or St Pancras without that detour, and they seem quite keen to stop people taking a short cut to the mainline platforms. It's all fine and wonderful if the ECML is a faux airline and KGX a faux airline terminal, but commuter trains in the main shed are not going to be a good fit. I have been told that it will be possible, despite this simple model, to enter the platforms though the barriers and that they won't all be set to exit after all. I am also assured that the flow will not require people with bikes to use the footbridge! But to use the barriers to enter low numbered platforms there will have to be information screens beyond the individual ones at each platform end. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote: In message , at 07:19:38 on Tue, 15 Feb 2011, remarked: I have been told that it will be possible, despite this simple model, to enter the platforms though the barriers and that they won't all be set to exit after all. As I commented the other day - a couple at the east end are marked as 'entrance' on the plans. I am also assured that the flow will not require people with bikes to use the footbridge! But to use the barriers to enter low numbered platforms there will have to be information screens beyond the individual ones at each platform end. Are there such screens at Waterloo, away from the central cluster? Admittedly, the departure platforms there are more predictable. Waterloo has a rather different layout, with screens along much of the barrier line. The original train shed wall rather gets in the way at the Cross. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Ticket Barrier Construction
In article ,
Mizter T wrote: Other London termini stations have gates and 12 car trains too - thus far sky hasn't fallen in. I thought gating was normally only used for commuter services -- the only place I've encountered gating on inter-city services is at Leeds and that's pretty new, and the gateline there is huge. I guess the new thinkibg is to put gates everywhere, but I don't have to like it. I also don't like the fact that they've only gated half the main shed and therefore put a great big locked gate in the middle splitting it into two. It now means that if you're at the Eastern side of the ticket hall and need to get to platforms 6-8 you need to fight your way through the crowds in front of the main departure board. -roy |
Ticket Barrier Construction
What happens regarding Hull Trains and Grand Central where passengers
are able to buy tickets on board? I'm sure there was something on the GC website saying they would continue to allow you to buy tickets on the train and if wishing to do so you should simply tell the gateline staff and they will let you through. How well this will work in practice remains to be seen. -roy |
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