PF evasion?
 

"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
...
In article , Kat
writes

I see what you mean but doesn't an a caution have to precede an arrest?

No.
--


But an arrest should always succeed a caution

PF evasion?
 

"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
...
Just had a thought, so a RPI catches you without a ticket and issues
with a £10 PF.

You have no money to pay it, or at least you tell the RPI that you have
no money. They ask for your name and address and you give them false
details.

How can they chase you up?

Having not paid a ticket before you got on the train, but then paying the
pentalty fare is not actually a criminal offence, so you don't get a record.
(Not its a *penalty fare* as opposed to a fine).

Lying about your details *is* an offence, and most people wouldn't risk
having a criminal record over £10, besides, they can easily check that the
address and name match - you would have to use a *real* person's name and
address- incriminating them - an even worse offense!

--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of
this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

PF evasion?
 

In article , Oliver Keating
writes

"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
...
Just had a thought, so a RPI catches you without a ticket and issues
with a £10 PF.

You have no money to pay it, or at least you tell the RPI that you have
no money. They ask for your name and address and you give them false
details.

How can they chase you up?

Having not paid a ticket before you got on the train, but then paying the
pentalty fare is not actually a criminal offence, so you don't get a record.
(Not its a *penalty fare* as opposed to a fine).

Lying about your details *is* an offence, and most people wouldn't risk
having a criminal record over £10, besides, they can easily check that the
address and name match - you would have to use a *real* person's name and
address- incriminating them - an even worse offense!

--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of
this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.


But in doing that you would get away with it wouldn't you?
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

PF evasion?
 

In article ,
(Oliver Keating) wrote:

"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
...
Just had a thought, so a RPI catches you without a ticket and issues
with a £10 PF.

You have no money to pay it, or at least you tell the RPI that you
have no money. They ask for your name and address and you give them
false details.

How can they chase you up?

Having not paid a ticket before you got on the train, but then paying
the pentalty fare is not actually a criminal offence, so you don't get a
record. (Not its a *penalty fare* as opposed to a fine).

Lying about your details *is* an offence, and most people wouldn't risk
having a criminal record over £10, besides, they can easily check that
the address and name match - you would have to use a *real* person's
name and address- incriminating them - an even worse offense!

The ticketless travellers I've seen claimed not to have any money to pay
for a fare either.

At least one was lying through his teeth. He showed a large wad of notes
in my sight but when the inspector wasn't near.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

PF evasion?
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

The ticketless travellers I've seen claimed not to have any money to
pay for a fare either.

At least one was lying through his teeth. He showed a large wad of
notes in my sight but when the inspector wasn't near.

So in other words you sat back and helped pay for his journey? Did he thank
you?

It's FRAUD - against the TOC and also against the other (hopefully) paying
passengers who indirectly have to pay the wages of the inspectors, just
because Mr Moneybags needs to show how clever he is!

Paul B

PF evasion?
 

In article ,
(Paul) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

The ticketless travellers I've seen claimed not to have any money to
pay for a fare either.

At least one was lying through his teeth. He showed a large wad of
notes in my sight but when the inspector wasn't near.

So in other words you sat back and helped pay for his journey? Did he
thank you?

Quite the contrary. I advised the inspectors who tried and failed to catch
him at King's cross. When I saw him in the street in Cambridge a few days
later walking towards the station I went ahead of him and advised the
staff at the station of his arrival. I don't know what they then managed
to do but I was told they have problems getting effective action with
juveniles.

It's FRAUD - against the TOC and also against the other (hopefully)
paying passengers who indirectly have to pay the wages of the
inspectors, just because Mr Moneybags needs to show how clever he is!

He showed his money after the inspectors had passed. I spoke to them later
but he had headed off up the train by then and gave them the slip between
platforms 9 and 8 I would guess.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

PF evasion?
 

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, JB wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article , (Andrew
P Smith) wrote:

In article , Richard
J.

Is that true? I would have thought that they were entitled to use
reasonable force to eject an unauthorised person from private property,
like bouncers in clubs or pubs.

I would take it as assault. Do you know if the law exists for an RPI to
forcibly remove someone from LUL property?

I think they have no such power, assuming it's the same on National Rail.
When a fare dodger was playing dead the other day on a train I was on the

I don't know if Railway bylaws change things but in normal circumstances;

Anyone acting for the owner of the property has the right to use "necessary"
force to remove someone.

Anyone has the right to arrest anyone else if *they have* committed an
arrestable offence. A police officer has the right to arrest anyone if he
*suspects they have* committed an arrestable offence.

AIUI, the citizen's arrest power only covers serious offences (those which
can be punished with imprisonment or something); i don't think it covers
fare evasion.

tom

--
or are they poststructuralist terrorists? perhaps we shall never truly know.

PF evasion?
 

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, JB wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Andrew
P Smith) wrote:

In article ,
Richard
J.

Is that true? I would have thought that they were entitled to use
reasonable force to eject an unauthorised person from private
property,
like bouncers in clubs or pubs.

I would take it as assault. Do you know if the law exists for an RPI
to
forcibly remove someone from LUL property?

I think they have no such power, assuming it's the same on National
Rail.
When a fare dodger was playing dead the other day on a train I was on
the

I don't know if Railway bylaws change things but in normal
circumstances;

Anyone acting for the owner of the property has the right to use
"necessary"
force to remove someone.

Anyone has the right to arrest anyone else if *they have* committed an
arrestable offence. A police officer has the right to arrest anyone if
he
*suspects they have* committed an arrestable offence.

AIUI, the citizen's arrest power only covers serious offences (those which
can be punished with imprisonment or something); i don't think it covers
fare evasion.


Isn't fare evasion delt with under the Theft Act? - I'm not sure but if so
that is an arrestable offence.