On Apr 5, 9:26*am, Chris wrote:
Body parts could be spread across all six tracks if a person is hit at
125mph.....it could also be a crime scene and the line would have been
closed by the BTP until they are satisfied with their investigations.
Then Network Rail has to clear all the body parts by bringing in the
Emergency Services. Only then can they start opening lines up.

If I get caught up in this sort of disruption, I usyally expect it to
last at least two hours - so try & find out from staff etc what time
the lines were closed & then work out my options.

It can take over an hour, sometimes two to organise coaches - hence
why it usually isn't worth it from Padd - by the time they are
organised and ready for loading, plus the travel time to Reading - the
lines are usually open - so best to wait for the trains to start
running. TOCs have to get you to your destination if you arrive in
good time for a train that would have taken you there...so there's NO
risk of getting dumped overnight *providing* you don't wander away
from the station for too long - you might miss the only train to go to
where you want to be. REfreshments withinn the station are fine.

Personally, my sympathies are with the driver of the affected train,
along with track & emergency personnel who have to pick up the bits -
not a nice job. It's something the travelling public have to accept....

Buses to Reading, for those missing last trains to S Wales, Plymouth
etc) might be part of the answer?

On 05/04/2011 08:59, Hils wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:13:21 on Tue, 5
Apr 2011, Graeme Wall remarked:
This is very sad - but why so many at Southall anyway? It does seem to
be a regular occurance.

One theory I've seen is that many of the suicides are Asian women
escaping the torments of arranged marriages.

And for cultural reasons they may well find it much harder to seek help.

Southall, of course, having a large population of British Asians.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/967153.stm

"Asian women are three times more likely to commit suicide than the
rest of the population."

"One study found that the suicide rate in women aged 16-24 years was
three times higher in women of Asian origin than in white British women.
[...] Asian men appear to be far less vulnerable to suicide than young
men from white British backgrounds."

(The suicide rate among white British women is lower than in the general
population. The suicide rate among men is more than three times that
among women.)

Actually the male suicide rate is three times that of women, not more
than three.


"[The] risk of suicide in unemployed men is two to three times higher
than in the general population."

http://www.mind.org.uk/help/research...ion_strategies


Odd how we read more about Asian [sic] women being "victims" than about
unemployed men.

Admittedly only a quick read but I see no reference to 'victims' in that
article.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Hils wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:13:21 on Tue, 5
Apr 2011, Graeme Wall remarked:
This is very sad - but why so many at Southall anyway? It does seem to
be a regular occurance.

One theory I've seen is that many of the suicides are Asian women
escaping the torments of arranged marriages.

And for cultural reasons they may well find it much harder to seek help.

Southall, of course, having a large population of British Asians.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/967153.stm

"Asian women are three times more likely to commit suicide than the rest
of the population."

"One study found that the suicide rate in women aged 16-24 years was
three times higher in women of Asian origin than in white British women.
[...] Asian men appear to be far less vulnerable to suicide than young
men from white British backgrounds."

(The suicide rate among white British women is lower than in the general
population. The suicide rate among men is more than three times that
among women.)

"[The] risk of suicide in unemployed men is two to three times higher
than in the general population."

http://www.mind.org.uk/help/research...ion_strategies

Odd how we read more about Asian [sic] women being "victims" than about
unemployed men.

I suspect that it isn't odd at all, but predetermined by our selection
of what we read.

Moreover, the women of Asian heritage who are driven to take their lives
often have been victims of abuse from an identifiable abuser, whereas
someone who is unemployed has rarely been victimised by one person,
unless you are going to lay the blame for their state at the door of the
person who puts the figures in the spreadsheet.

--
..sig down for maintenance

Neil Williams wrote:

On Apr 5, 9:31*am, bob wrote:

It's not just a question of "damn the crime scene, get the trains
running", there are other railway lines and other ways of getting
there (eg via Waterloo, coaches).

And a passenger is ill-advised to act outside staff advice at that
time of night, as if they're then stranded you can be sure "it's your
own fault" will be the answer. So there needed to be staff to decide
what to do and to confirm it to passengers.

Until those investigating at the scene have actually said, "okay, we've
finished now" all rail staff can do is offer guesses, though.

Information about alternative routes home could also be overtaken by
events - e.g. people being directed to H&C line trains by fGW staff
could find them cancelled because of overcrowding.

It's very hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all answer in these
circumstances, apart from "keep calm and carry on".

--
..sig down for maintenance

On Apr 5, 11:12*am, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:

Until those investigating at the scene have actually said, "okay, we've
finished now" all rail staff can do is offer guesses, though.

What they can do is offer the ability to say "we were told to do
that". Which can be very useful when someone gets stuck further down
the line.

They can also reassure people that they aren't being ignored. The LUL
requirement for a "we are being held at a red signal" announcement
after N minutes (N=2?) is a good example. It does not provide useful
information, but it does provide reassurance that someone gives a
monkeys about the passengers and they are not just an operational
inconvenience.

It's very hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all answer in these
circumstances, apart from "keep calm and carry on".

And reassurance. The human factor is very important, but often
neglected.

Oddly, said human factor can sometimes be provided via technology. I
find LM's Twitter feed very good for this.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:

On Apr 5, 11:12*am, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:

Until those investigating at the scene have actually said, "okay, we've
finished now" all rail staff can do is offer guesses, though.

What they can do is offer the ability to say "we were told to do
that". Which can be very useful when someone gets stuck further down
the line.

They can also reassure people that they aren't being ignored. The LUL
requirement for a "we are being held at a red signal" announcement
after N minutes (N=2?) is a good example. It does not provide useful
information, but it does provide reassurance that someone gives a
monkeys about the passengers and they are not just an operational
inconvenience.

Well, I'd certainly agree that an announcement every so often saying
"Unfortunately we do not have any firm information about when trains
will be able to leave" would convey the idea that somebody was
interested in the passengers, but I can't see what else could be said
when there is no information to convey. Some of the more strident
comments in this thread seem to assume that managers on the scene would
somehow be able to convey information that was not otherwise being
conveyed.

It's very hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all answer in these
circumstances, apart from "keep calm and carry on".

And reassurance. The human factor is very important, but often
neglected.

That may be a by-product of compensation culture. In the past, I reckon
there was much more of a "we're all in this together" attitude, whereas
nowadays, there's a prevalent, "whose fault is this and how much can I
screw them for?"

Oddly, said human factor can sometimes be provided via technology. I
find LM's Twitter feed very good for this.

So I gather from your previous postings. The only time I've bothered
with Twitter (not railway related) I haven't found anything sufficiently
interesting to persevere with it.

--
..sig down for maintenance

In message , at 08:59:10 on Tue, 5 Apr
2011, Hils remarked:
"Asian women are three times more likely to commit suicide than the
rest of the population."

....

Odd how we read more about Asian [sic] women being "victims" than about
unemployed men.

Perhaps they have less dramatic/public ways of doing it. Although some
believe that quite a few fatal road accidents may in fact be suicides,
but rarely reported as such (modulo Ufton).
--
Roland Perry

On Apr 5, 11:12*am, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On Apr 5, 9:31 am, bob wrote:

It's not just a question of "damn the crime scene, get the trains
running", there are other railway lines and other ways of getting
there (eg via Waterloo, coaches).

And a passenger is ill-advised to act outside staff advice at that
time of night, as if they're then stranded you can be sure "it's your
own fault" will be the answer. *So there needed to be staff to decide
what to do and to confirm it to passengers.

Until those investigating at the scene have actually said, "okay, we've
finished now" all rail staff can do is offer guesses, though.

Information about alternative routes home could also be overtaken by
events - e.g. people being directed to H&C line trains by fGW staff
could find them cancelled because of overcrowding.

It's very hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all answer in these
circumstances, apart from "keep calm and carry on".

The problem is the railways are not following a "keep calm, carry on"
approach, they are following a "pack up and go home" approach, leaving
passengers stranded. There should be contingency plans for how to
deal with the closure of key points on the network, ready to act on
with half an hour's notice. It should be clear to management within
half an hour whether the situation is a "open again in a few minutes"
or "closed for the rest of the evening" situation. For management to
just sit on that information and neither pass it on, nor advise
passengers (who may have train-specific non flexible tickets) how to
go about getting home, nor give them advice on alternative routes that
are available, is bad management. Just sticking a "we're really
sorry, your train is cancelled" message on the information display is
not a contingency plan, and it's not keeping calm and carrying on.

Robin

On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 01:26:43 -0700 (PDT)
Chris wrote:
Body parts could be spread across all six tracks if a person is hit at
125mph.....it could also be a crime scene and the line would have been
closed by the BTP until they are satisfied with their investigations.

Thats the trouble with the police in this country - every accident is a crime
scene until proven otherwise no matter how trivial or how much distruption it
causes. In europe you need a bloody good reason to close an entire motorway or
main rail line for hours but in this country it just needs one jobsworth
plod and thats it for the day. In spain last year I drove past 2 trucks that
had collided head on. In this country plod would have closed the entire
stretch of road for a day - in spain the police were just waving drivers
past as they got on with their job.

B2003

On Apr 5, 11:44*am, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:

Well, I'd certainly agree that an announcement every so often saying
"Unfortunately we do not have any firm information about when trains
will be able to leave" would convey the idea that somebody was
interested in the passengers, but I can't see what else could be said
when there is no information to convey.

That's roughly the same as the Tube one. It might also be worth
suggesting alternatives that are known to exist as others have posted
and cross-ticket acceptance arranged where sensible. But such an
announcement does have value - or LU clearly believe so!

And reassurance. *The human factor is very important, but often
neglected.

That may be a by-product of compensation culture. In the past, I reckon
there was much more of a "we're all in this together" attitude, whereas
nowadays, there's a prevalent, "whose fault is this and how much can I
screw them for?"

I disagree. It may well be that the railway used to leave people
stranded or ignore them through its own self importance. That doesn't
mean to say they should now. Airlines are atrocious at this, I find,
the railway is rather better. Is that not a good thing?

FWIW, I do not claim Delay Repay money from the railway in an event
causing delay that is beyond its control, such as the one this thread
is discussing; that would seem unreasonable to me. But it does seem
reasonable to me that regardless of the cause of the delay the railway
should assist the passengers and provide them information, even if
that information is "we haven't forgotten you, but by the way there is
no information". It might similarly mean that the railway isn't in a
position to pay for hotel accommodation, but will assist you in
finding it, for instance, or might even pay for it out of goodwill, or
park a train in the platform to let people kip on there (as I believe
Eurostar have done once or twice). It's not about who is strictly
liable, it's about a company's moral responsibility to its customers.

So I gather from your previous postings. The only time I've bothered
with Twitter (not railway related) I haven't found anything sufficiently
interesting to persevere with it.

I haven't found a use for it other than transport information. But it
does pretty well at that if the TOC do their job. I have LM, VT and
Chiltern on there, and while they differ in how they work, all of them
are useful. Vastly more up to date and relevant than the Nexus Alpha
sites, or the now uselessly out of date NRE site.

Neil