d wrote:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:22:31 +0100
Chris Tolley (ukonline really) wrote:
They may not even understand the language. How on earth do you suppose

They could always try learning it. Just a thought...

So, let's transpose the situation. You've gone to Gazumboland on the
promise of a job, and you are met at the capital's airport by someone
from the firm you are going to be working for, who drives you to the
company's office. On the way, he kindly takes your mobile phone from
you so that he can fit it with the right kind of SIM for the Gazumbo
phone company. Except when the car eventually stops, it's not the
company's office, it's a shack about 125km into the back of beyond where
the only language spoken is Gazimbi and it is written in a script that
looks more like sparrow footprints than letters. Then it turns out there
aren't any prospects at all. And you never got your phone back. All in
all you reckon you want out. I suppose you could try learning the
language, but most folk would have other things higher on their list of
priorities.

--
..sig down for maintenance

On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 10:39:33 +0100
Chris Tolley (ukonline really) wrote:
So, let's transpose the situation. You've gone to Gazumboland on the
promise of a job, and you are met at the capital's airport by someone
from the firm you are going to be working for, who drives you to the
company's office. On the way, he kindly takes your mobile phone from
you so that he can fit it with the right kind of SIM for the Gazumbo
phone company. Except when the car eventually stops, it's not the
company's office, it's a shack about 125km into the back of beyond where
the only language spoken is Gazimbi and it is written in a script that
looks more like sparrow footprints than letters. Then it turns out there
aren't any prospects at all. And you never got your phone back. All in
all you reckon you want out. I suppose you could try learning the
language, but most folk would have other things higher on their list of
priorities.

Well unless you're suggesting that ALL spouses are effectively kidnapped
and brought here then that example is ********. Sure, there are some but
we're not talking about them. We're talking about women (and some men) who
know full well who they're going to marry - whether they want to or not is
another issue - and where they will live long before it happens. There is
nothing to stop them learning the language first. If I went off to live in
India I'd make damn sure I had at least a working knowledge of Hindi or
perhaps the local state language before i went. Stop trying to excuse
lazyness or are you going to say that all the ex-pat Brits in the costas
who can't be arsed to learn spanish also have a good excuse not to bother?

B2003

d wrote:

On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 10:39:33 +0100
Chris Tolley (ukonline really) wrote:
So, let's transpose the situation. You've gone to Gazumboland on the
promise of a job, and you are met at the capital's airport by someone
from the firm you are going to be working for, who drives you to the
company's office. On the way, he kindly takes your mobile phone from
you so that he can fit it with the right kind of SIM for the Gazumbo
phone company. Except when the car eventually stops, it's not the
company's office, it's a shack about 125km into the back of beyond where
the only language spoken is Gazimbi and it is written in a script that
looks more like sparrow footprints than letters. Then it turns out there
aren't any prospects at all. And you never got your phone back. All in
all you reckon you want out. I suppose you could try learning the
language, but most folk would have other things higher on their list of
priorities.

Well unless you're suggesting that ALL spouses are effectively kidnapped
and brought here then that example is ********. Sure, there are some but
we're not talking about them.

How do you know we are not talking about people in corresponding
situations? I was.

We're talking about women (and some men) who know full well who
they're going to marry - whether they want to or not is another issue
- and where they will live long before it happens.

You might want to talk about those people, but they are not the people I
was talking about. I'm talking about those who do not have the
wherewithal to help themselves, not those who do.

There is nothing to stop them learning the language first.

As one who has travelled in the third world (and well off the tourist
track) I have learned not to make such rash assumptions. We are
incredibly well-served by the services that are provided by the
government through our taxes. In other places, if you don't arrive at
the school gate with the requisite daily fee in your hand, you don't get
an education.

If I went off to live in India I'd make damn sure I had at least a
working knowledge of Hindi or perhaps the local state language before
i went. Stop trying to excuse lazyness or are you going to say that
all the ex-pat Brits in the costas who can't be arsed to learn
spanish also have a good excuse not to bother?

No, because one of my talents is sticking to the point, no matter how
much obfuscation comes along.
--
..sig down for maintenance

On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:51:24 +0100
Chris Tolley (ukonline really) wrote:
Well unless you're suggesting that ALL spouses are effectively kidnapped
and brought here then that example is ********. Sure, there are some but
we're not talking about them.

How do you know we are not talking about people in corresponding
situations? I was.

Well they're not very common are they? Or are you suggesting a large
proportion of immigrant wives are held against their will?
And there are plenty who are not in that situation who can barely
speak the language. Whats their excuse? I know someone who's mother has
lived over here since before I was born yet she still speaks english like
someone who's done a weeks beginners course and no more. She is in no
way held prisoner since her husband buggered off years ago. She's just
****ing lazy and expects her kids to do everything for her including
translation.

government through our taxes. In other places, if you don't arrive at
the school gate with the requisite daily fee in your hand, you don't get
an education.

Which particular places then? Not in india or pakistan AFAIK.

i went. Stop trying to excuse lazyness or are you going to say that
all the ex-pat Brits in the costas who can't be arsed to learn
spanish also have a good excuse not to bother?

No, because one of my talents is sticking to the point, no matter how
much obfuscation comes along.

My point ,which you obviously didn't have the mental horsepower to
comprehend is that if people can get away without bothering to learn
a language they will. Its nothing to do with social situation or money, its just
lazyness.

B2003

On 07/04/2011 10:11, Hils wrote:
The solution to such things does not lie in inviting all of the world's
downtrodden to what is already the most densely-populated country in
Europe,

[snip diatribe]

You are the editor of the Daily Express AICMFP

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Hils wrote:

The solution to such things does not lie in inviting all of the world's
downtrodden to what is already the most densely-populated country in
Europe, and which already has 1 million homeless, 5 million people out
of work, and millions more who can only get by through state supplements
to inadequate incomes.

Nobody (certainly not me, to whom you wrote this) said it does.
--
..sig down for maintenance

On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 10:11:19AM +0100, Hils wrote:

The solution to such things does not lie in inviting all of the world's
downtrodden to what is already the most densely-populated country in
Europe

You're right, no problems in the UK will be solved by anything that
happens in the Netherlands, which is the most densely-populated
significant country in Europe.

Or if you really did mean the most densely-populated country in Europe,
then inviting people into Monaco *certainly* won't make any difference
to the UK.

It's also a country where the government is
starting a holocaust against the chronically ill and the poor

I think you'll find that holocausts are quite out of fashion in the
Netherlands (and Monaco).

--
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

Did you know that shotguns taste like candy canes? Put the barrel in
your mouth and pull the trigger for an extra blast of minty goodness!

On 2011\04\08 15:43, David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 10:11:19AM +0100, Hils wrote:

The solution to such things does not lie in inviting all of the world's
downtrodden to what is already the most densely-populated country in
Europe

You're right, no problems in the UK will be solved by anything that
happens in the Netherlands, which is the most densely-populated
significant country in Europe.

England is more densely populated than the Netherlands. The UK is less so.

Basil Jet wrote in
:

On 2011\04\08 15:43, David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 10:11:19AM +0100, Hils wrote:

The solution to such things does not lie in inviting all of the
world's downtrodden to what is already the most densely-populated
country in Europe

You're right, no problems in the UK will be solved by anything that
happens in the Netherlands, which is the most densely-populated
significant country in Europe.

England is more densely populated than the Netherlands. The UK is less
so.


Irrelevant: you either need to compare at the levels of regions-that-
are-historical-countries *or* at the levels of nation-states. Comparing
England to the Netherlands is a category error. And of course, Holland
is more densely populated than England.