On Apr 15, 12:38*pm, wrote:

No , you can't rely on any one road but you can listen to the traffic news
and divert as appropriate.

Sometimes, not always. And you can also divert from one railway line
to another, or from one bus to another. You can't do it if stuck
between stations, but then you can't do it if stuck between junctions
on a road, either. Those spending 2+ hours waiting on the M1 this
morning will no doubt realise this.

I'd certainly never use
the tube to go the heathrow - yet again this morning the service from hatton
to heathrow was apparently suspended for god knows what reason. And no doubt
LU gave its usual shoulder shrug about stuck passengers and did less than
bugger all to help them out. I live in london and I have no idea how to get
from hatton cross to the terminals by bus - what chance would a tourist who
doesn't speak much english stand?

They'd probably take a taxi from there if in a hurry. Wouldn't cost
much against the cost of missing a flight, particularly from LHR, from
which no low-cost airlines operate.

Yes they can be a safety issue

Not much of one. The only case where they are really a safety issue
is if they flew around the train in a collision or emergency braking.
Again one of those things that are rare enough not really to be
important.

But its not just that - in the rush hour where you literally can hardly
move how do you expect to squeeze a wheelchair on?

You have to be reasonable. If you've ever been on a train in India,
you'll note that UK rush-hour trains are usually not so crowded you
couldn't get a few extra people on board if you tried. But a
wheelchair user similarly has to be realistic that they might not be
able to take the first train out because they physically won't fit.

Even luggage causes
serious problems especially on the tube.

It causes a mild nuisance, IMO. Not really much more than that.

People tend to help people in the event of disasters, yes.

Maybe, maybe not. If theres a right panic on probably not.

I cannot envisage a situation where there would be a "right panic on"
to evacuate a train. Big fires don't really happen on trains to that
extent (the last time I can think of when one did in the UK was one of
the GWML crashes). They don't really happen at all where no fuel is
involved. The fire on an LM train last week, for instance, killed
only the person that started it.

Easier , but still not easy. Most platforms arn't at train floor height so
they'd have to be raised or the track lowered (though the situation in
europe must be almost impossible to solve , they barely have platforms in
some countries).

You use portable ramps as are used throughout the mainline. Most busy
Tube stations have station staff, and one presumes a member of staff
could be arranged at another station in advance. That's how the
mainline works; I don't see why LUL would be any different.

In mainland Europe you tend to find that instead of portable ramps
they have small lifts. The only real difference is that the equipment
is a bit bigger, a bit more expensive and takes up more room than a
ramp - the way it's done isn't really any different.

Umm , just adding a lift into a 150 year old structure is not necessarily
a simple exercise.

Not necessarily, no. But as these are just below the surface it's a
lot easier than on the deep Tube.

Neil

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 06:48:32 -0700 (PDT)
Neil Williams wrote:
Sometimes, not always. And you can also divert from one railway line
to another, or from one bus to another. You can't do it if stuck

Well that depends if there are 2 seperate railway lines going the same
way which generally isn't the case. If Thameslink breaks down you're not
going to think "I know , i'll walk 10 miles to the nearest ECML station and
get a train there".

between stations, but then you can't do it if stuck between junctions
on a road, either. Those spending 2+ hours waiting on the M1 this
morning will no doubt realise this.

That only applies to motorways. Most A roads and all minor roads in towns
have frequent junctions with other roads that you can escape down and
these days most people have a satnav that can find an alternative route.

They'd probably take a taxi from there if in a hurry. Wouldn't cost

You're assuming theres a taxi rank there and not just some scruffy minicab
office hidden down a back street.

You have to be reasonable. If you've ever been on a train in India,
you'll note that UK rush-hour trains are usually not so crowded you
couldn't get a few extra people on board if you tried. But a

Depends if you want a fight or not. People tend to have a limit to how much
they're prepared to be squashed up against the next person. The indians
and japanese probably have a higher limit than europeans but they tend to
be skinnier too so you can physically fit more of them in the same space.

Maybe, maybe not. If theres a right panic on probably not.

I cannot envisage a situation where there would be a "right panic on"
to evacuate a train. Big fires don't really happen on trains to that

Bombs. Also some people with even mild claustrophobia start to panic if
confined for too long.

You use portable ramps as are used throughout the mainline. Most busy
Tube stations have station staff, and one presumes a member of staff
could be arranged at another station in advance. That's how the
mainline works; I don't see why LUL would be any different.

It might work on off peak hours - at busy stations in the rush hour? No chance.
Anyway , they seem to be de-manning the tube , your idea would require extra
staff.

B2003

On Apr 15, 3:06*pm, wrote:

Well that depends if there are 2 seperate railway lines going the same
way which generally isn't the case. If Thameslink breaks down you're not
going to think "I know , i'll walk 10 miles to the nearest ECML station and
get a train there".

No. But you might, either on your own or with a group of other
passengers, take a taxi there.

But in the case of London, there is a dense network of public
transport, both road and rail (and indeed river). If one bit of it
breaks, there are other options.

That only applies to motorways. Most A roads and all minor roads in towns
have frequent junctions with other roads that you can escape down and
these days most people have a satnav that can find an alternative route.

Sometimes. A blocked road often leads to almost-gridlock on others.

You're assuming theres a taxi rank there and not just some scruffy minicab
office hidden down a back street.

True. I imagine if the black cabs waiting at LHR heard of such a
problem there would soon not be a shortage of those, though.

Bombs.

I'm sure I remember reading that on the occasion when there were bombs
on the tube there was not blind panic to evacuate. But as bombs on
the Tube are extremely rare, it doesn't seem to be a reason not to
carry wheelchairs or luggage.

Also some people with even mild claustrophobia start to panic if
confined for too long.

This is true. I doubt, though, it would send them running into
tunnels in a panic, as the tunnels are equally claustrophobic.

It might work on off peak hours - at busy stations in the rush hour? No chance.
Anyway , they seem to be de-manning the tube , your idea would require extra
staff.

It just about works on the mainline, though is easier on trains with
guards, admittedly.

As for de-manning, busy Tube stations still tend to have platform
staff, largely because the DOO monitors aren't good enough for the
driver to see properly if there is an issue before closing doors/
departing. The destaffing is mainly in the area of ticket offices,
which have no bearing at all on accessibility at platform level as
they'd never usually go down onto the platform.

Neil