In message , at 13:59:13 on
Sat, 7 May 2011, Basil Jet remarked:

I thought driving with sidelights was legal if the road has
streetlamps, which many motorways do.

I'd be a bit careful about mapping rules from normal roads to motorways.

Motorways with streetlamps don't have an implied 30mph speed limit, nor
do they have "National Speed limit" repeaters on those streetlamps.
--
Roland Perry

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2011\05\07 11:03, Steve Firth wrote:
Which means all those tools who drive around on sidelights are not
legal.

I thought driving with sidelights was legal if the road has streetlamps,
which many motorways do.


Yes, sidelights are perfectly legal as long as there are streetlights.
Clause 113 of the Highway Code states:

113
You MUST
- ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit
between sunset and sunrise
- use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street
lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30
mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
- use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)


The second-sub-clause hints that you might perhaps (but does not
overtly suggest or say that you MUST) use headlights on roads with
speed limits higher than 30 mph, even if lit. So the use of
sidelights on a lit motorway would appear to be perfectly legal.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
113
You MUST
- ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit
between sunset and sunrise
- use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street
lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30
mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
- use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)


The second-sub-clause hints that you might perhaps (but does not
overtly suggest or say that you MUST) use headlights on roads with
speed limits higher than 30 mph, even if lit. So the use of
sidelights on a lit motorway would appear to be perfectly legal.

I was once stopped by the police and given a friendly, unnofficial caution
for driving on sidelights instead of dipped headlights on a road with street
lighting. At the time I didn't know that driving on sidelights alone was
ever legal and I'd done it accidentally rather than deliberately when I
hadn't turned the switch far enough - I'd just set off and the street lights
were bright enough that it wasn't immediately obvious that the road wasn't
being lit by my headlights.

Normally I wouldn't dream of driving on just sidelights: the extra
reflection of headlights off white lines, cats-eyes, road signs, kerb edges
etc is a good reason for using headlights even when there are street lights,
especially in the gap between one lamp-post and the next.

I'd love to know how anyone can drive with *no* lights at all on an unlit
motorway at night, as I've seen several times. Unless they've got
night-vision goggles on :-)

"Mortimer" wrote:
"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
113
You MUST
- ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit
between sunset and sunrise
- use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street
lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30
mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
- use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)


The second-sub-clause hints that you might perhaps (but does not
overtly suggest or say that you MUST) use headlights on roads with
speed limits higher than 30 mph, even if lit. So the use of
sidelights on a lit motorway would appear to be perfectly legal.

I was once stopped by the police and given a friendly, unnofficial caution
for driving on sidelights instead of dipped headlights on a road with street
lighting. At the time I didn't know that driving on sidelights alone was
ever legal and I'd done it accidentally rather than deliberately when I
hadn't turned the switch far enough - I'd just set off and the street lights
were bright enough that it wasn't immediately obvious that the road wasn't
being lit by my headlights.


Many traffic police officers make up laws on the spot and will advise
you what you should be doing based on their own hobby-horses and
personal prejudices. Police officers include some of the most
ignorant and opinionated people that you will ever find. Of course it
is best to take the path of least resistance and comply, even if you
know they are talking ********.


Normally I wouldn't dream of driving on just sidelights: the extra
reflection of headlights off white lines, cats-eyes, road signs, kerb edges
etc is a good reason for using headlights even when there are street lights,
especially in the gap between one lamp-post and the next.


On wet roads, which can be very reflective, the use of dipped
headlights can cause a lot of dazzle. In that particular situation,
using sidelights would be safer, but the "Dim-Dip" headlights fitted
to cars sold in the UK from April 1987 would be safest of all.

An argument with the EU caused Dim-Dip to be dropped as a legal
requirement, nevertheless many cars were subsequently sold with it up
until the turn of the millennium. Dim-Dip lights the headlamps at
about 15% brightness when the sidelights are switched on with the
engine running.


I'd love to know how anyone can drive with *no* lights at all on an unlit
motorway at night, as I've seen several times. Unless they've got
night-vision goggles on :-)


I once drove about 40 miles at night with no lights - there was a full
moon, so I could see well. It wasn't in the UK, and it wasn't on
public roads. ;-)

The incidence of people driving without lights at night has increased
ever since some cars were supplied with instrument panel lighting that
is illuminated with the ignition on, regardless of whether the
sidelights or headlights are switched on. Being unable to see the
speedometer and other instruments at night is quite a powerful
reminder to switch on sidelights or headlights. ;-)

On 07/05/2011 08:02, Stephen Bagwell wrote:
On 6 May, 15:32, wrote:
"Mizter wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Double red lines? What are they?

They signify "No Stopping" on London's designated "Red Routes".
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/fine...ons/10185.aspx

I have read that page, including reference to the PCNs, but are they
actually a recognised, enforceable highway code entity, or just London
local
authority doing what it likes?

I believe specific legislation was passed - the Traffic Management Act
2004. This Act made specific reference only to London, however there
are also Red Routes in Birmingham.

The Act also refers to powers under the Highways Act 1980 and the Road
Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

This is far from being a complete answer to your question and I
present it only as a possible starting point for your research.

Red Routes in London have their genesis in the Road Traffic Act 1991, which
also established a new body, the Traffic Director for London (under the
Department of Transport), who was to establish and take control of a
Priority Route Network in London. The role of the Traffic Director for
London was subsumed by TfL on it's foundation in 2000, and the Priority
Route Network became the TLRN (or Transport for London Road Network -
initially called the Greater London Road Network I think).

The Red Routes in Birmingham will of course have some sort of statutory
basis - no mention of what that is on the Red Route section of the
Birmingham City Council website, but I'm sure if GT were to email them
then they'd reply with the required information.

It is interesting that each individual Red Route in London required a
Traffic Order to be passed by Parliament, implying that the powers of
the Traffic Director are somewhat limited. I would expect that a
similar Order(s) was/were needed for Birmingham. But as I have made
clear, it is up to GT (or anyone else interested) to do their own
detailed research, as I have only skimmed the subject.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is a "Black Cab" without a passenger allowed in a "bus lane"

Yes (as long as that particular bus lane is also for taxis).

Saw a "mini-cab" stop on zig-zag lines last night.

Illegal for any vehicle (except a bus stopping at a bus-stop) on the approach
side.

Also a mini-cab driver had no clue that he should have had headlights
not side lights on when driving on a motorway

A common fault and lots of people do it.

On 07/05/2011 11:03, Steve Firth wrote:
wrote:

Stephen wrote:

Also a mini-cab driver had no clue that he should have had headlights
not side lights on when driving on a motorway.


Driving with only sidelights on is never a good idea, but I wasn't
aware of any statute prohibiting their use on motorways.

Tssk, Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989

"25.- (1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or
cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle which is fitted with
obligatory dipped-beam headlamps unless every such lamp is kept lit-"

a)during the hours of darkness, except on a road which is a restricted road
for the purposes of section 81 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 by
virtue of a system of street lighting when it is lit; and.
(b)in seriously reduced visibility..

paragraph (2) states that the dipped beam headlamps do not need to be
lit *if*:


Which means all those tools who drive around on sidelights are not
legal.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...lation/25/made

On 07/05/2011 22:49, JNugent wrote:

Saw a "mini-cab" stop on zig-zag lines last night.

Illegal for any vehicle (except a bus stopping at a bus-stop) on the
approach side.

Illegal for any vehicle (except a bus stopping at a bus-stop on the
departing side).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2...lation/16/made

On 08/05/2011 11:00, Nick Finnigan wrote:

JNugent wrote:

Saw a "mini-cab" stop on zig-zag lines last night.

Illegal for any vehicle (except a bus stopping at a bus-stop) on the
approach side.

Illegal for any vehicle (except a bus stopping at a bus-stop on the
departing side).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2...lation/16/made

There certainly used to be exceptions for buses, because when the zig-zags
were introduced in Liverpool, several of them encompassed the whole or a part
of a bus stop (on the approach side). The city engineer was forced to state
(in open council, in reply to a member's question) that this was specifically
allowed under the legislation.

I suppose it it is possible that there has been a programme of improving the
siting of bus-stops.

"Bruce" wrote in message
news

The incidence of people driving without lights at night has increased
ever since some cars were supplied with instrument panel lighting that
is illuminated with the ignition on, regardless of whether the
sidelights or headlights are switched on. Being unable to see the
speedometer and other instruments at night is quite a powerful
reminder to switch on sidelights or headlights. ;-)

Don't an increasing number of cars come with automatic headlights? I've
got so used to them that I'd probably forget to switch the lights on in
a vehicle without them. Ditto with the auto-dipping rear view mirrors.

I gather that future cars will be even smarter, with the headlights
controlled by 3D GPS systems that fine-tune the beams, taking into
account curves and gradients ahead. Some cars already automatically
modify the high beam shape when they see cars coming the other way, and
many cars steer the beams with the front wheels.

In message , Basil Jet
writes
On 2011\05\07 11:03, Steve Firth wrote:


Which means all those tools who drive around on sidelights are not
legal.

I thought driving with sidelights was legal if the road has
streetlamps, which many motorways do.

Does not apply at speeds above 30 mph. Therefore headlights are required
under normal conditions on motorways and dual carriageways with speed
limit above 30.

--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England
Interested in American trains real and model?
Look here http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikehughes2011/