On 01/06/2011 02:44, TheOneKEA wrote:
On May 31, 5:36 pm, Arthur wrote:
On 30/05/2011 11:47, Paul Corfield wrote:

There are not enough 378s around nor are there any contract options
left to be activated. I suspect that by the time comes around to
electrify the line that Bombardier will have thrown away the jigs and

People often say thrown away jigs will stop rolling stock orders, but
what does it actually mean in the contect of modern trains? Won't they
just upload computer files to a new jig-o-matic, or something?

The problem is that doing that upload translates into a substantial
lead time, since the work required to adjust the manufacturing
equipment (including the jigs) so that it turns out the correct
components and structural pieces means that it isn't cost-effective to
do so for a small order. The first couple of pieces are unlikely to be
quite right, and therefore you need to make enough of them to ensure
that you get the correct pieces for later assembly.

Don't they "put the bits together", rather than build everything from
scratch, so aren't the components already available? I find it hard to
believe they would need to throw away two new vehicles per batch.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On May 30, 10:27*am, Paul Corfield wrote:

other than the link from Hornsey
down to the MML as part of the Thameslink programme. This assumes the
depot is still going to be at Hornsey after all of the NIMBY attacks.



I went to a NR TLP technical presentation a coupe of weeks ago -
depot strategy** was mentioned as being altered but only indirectly
hinted at it being more logical to have the major depot south of the
Thames.

The MML Hornsey link was not mentioned, it never occurred to me to ask
about it, it was not mentioned in the presentation at all, but the
link is a minor works job compared to the rest of the grand scheme so
not an indication things have changed.


IIRC way back when Siemens were bidding for Gatwick Express stock(i.e.
the 460s) they wanted their depot at Three Bridges. Now there is more
under utilised rail land at 3B than there was then it would not
surprise me if Siemens have a Thameslink Northam type plan in their
bid. None of where the major depot is has much bearing on overnight
stock berthing as just like SWT a relatively small proportion of
444/450 berth at Northam for traffic purposes, the bulk of the traffic
fleet is a ''traditional'' SWD locations. TLP will be the same.



--
Nick

On Jun 1, 2:44*am, TheOneKEA wrote:
On May 31, 5:36*pm, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 30/05/2011 11:47, Paul Corfield wrote:

There are not enough 378s around nor are there any contract options
left to be activated. I suspect that by the time comes around to
electrify the line that Bombardier will have thrown away the jigs and

People often say thrown away jigs will stop rolling stock orders, but
what does it actually mean in the contect of modern trains? Won't they
just upload computer files to a new jig-o-matic, or something?

The problem is that doing that upload translates into a substantial
lead time, since the work required to adjust the manufacturing
equipment (including the jigs) so that it turns out the correct
components and structural pieces means that it isn't cost-effective to
do so for a small order. The first couple of pieces are unlikely to be
quite right, and therefore you need to make enough of them to ensure
that you get the correct pieces for later assembly.

If the jigs and other systems needed to build 378s are in fact
discarded and need to be reconstutited, TfL would have to order at
least 10-15 4-car units in order to make it cost-effective. If the
GOBLIN were electrified I'm not sure it could absorb 10-15 dual-
voltage units all by itself, which means that TfL needs to use them
somewhere else on the Overground, such as one of the core service
routes (Willesden-Stratford, Clapham-Willesden, Highbury-West Croydon).

Well, there was mooting that if demand continues to rise then we might
see 5-car trains in the mid-term. That might be sufficient to get more
378s for the Goblin. Perhaps units for the mooted takeover of the
Crystal Palace-Clapham Junction (and up the WLL) outer SLL service
(should it come to pass) might swing the balance as well.

On Jun 1, 5:17*pm, Jamie Thompson wrote:

Well, there was mooting that if demand continues to rise then we might
see 5-car trains


In a different presentation on ELL , 5car 378s are not permanently
ruled out, even on the ELL itself.

Cue stage left uk.r protests ...

.... anyway the 2 people giving the presentation were the top projects
bods from LU and NR and 5car with SDO is a possibility.

--
Nick

On Jun 1, 4:27*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Jun 1, 5:17*pm, Jamie *Thompson wrote:

Well, there was mooting that if demand continues to rise then we might
see 5-car trains

In a different presentation on ELL , 5car 378s are not permanently
ruled out, even on the ELL itself.

Cue stage left uk.r protests *...

... anyway the 2 people giving the presentation were the top projects
bods from LU and NR and 5car with SDO is a possibility.


That at least implies that the manufacturing components needed to
build more Class 378 bodyshells haven't been reconfigured, which is
good news if a whole new set of units needs to be built.

In article
,
(D7666) wrote:

On Jun 1, 5:17*pm, Jamie Thompson wrote:

Well, there was mooting that if demand continues to rise then we might
see 5-car trains

In a different presentation on ELL , 5car 378s are not permanently
ruled out, even on the ELL itself.

Cue stage left uk.r protests ...

... anyway the 2 people giving the presentation were the top projects
bods from LU and NR and 5car with SDO is a possibility.

Why SDO? The East London line had 5-car OP stock in 1971. Or is SDO needed
just for the only station that didn't exist then, Canada Water?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jun 1, 11:23*pm, TheOneKEA wrote:
On Jun 1, 4:27*pm, D7666 wrote:

On Jun 1, 5:17*pm, Jamie *Thompson wrote:

Well, there was mooting that if demand continues to rise then we might
see 5-car trains

In a different presentation on ELL , 5car 378s are not permanently
ruled out, even on the ELL itself.

Cue stage left uk.r protests *...

... anyway the 2 people giving the presentation were the top projects
bods from LU and NR and 5car with SDO is a possibility.

That at least implies that the manufacturing components needed to
build more Class 378 bodyshells haven't been reconfigured, which is
good news if a whole new set of units needs to be built.


Not necessary ... re-form 378 and turn the present 4car units into say
3car and 5car and make enough 5car units for the ELL., and acquire
something else to make up the loss and/or expand other LOROL routes.

--
Nick

On Jun 1, 11:23*pm, TheOneKEA wrote:
On Jun 1, 4:27*pm, D7666 wrote:

On Jun 1, 5:17*pm, Jamie *Thompson wrote:

Well, there was mooting that if demand continues to rise then we might
see 5-car trains

In a different presentation on ELL , 5car 378s are not permanently
ruled out, even on the ELL itself.

Cue stage left uk.r protests *...

... anyway the 2 people giving the presentation were the top projects
bods from LU and NR and 5car with SDO is a possibility.

That at least implies that the manufacturing components needed to
build more Class 378 bodyshells haven't been reconfigured, which is
good news if a whole new set of units needs to be built.

I would hope that the class 378 manufacturing equipment is still
available, as there are still three units (255-257) to be delivered,
for the ELL extension to Clapham Junction.

On Jun 2, 12:02*am, D7666 wrote:
On Jun 1, 11:23*pm, TheOneKEA wrote:





On Jun 1, 4:27*pm, D7666 wrote:

On Jun 1, 5:17*pm, Jamie *Thompson wrote:

Well, there was mooting that if demand continues to rise then we might
see 5-car trains

In a different presentation on ELL , 5car 378s are not permanently
ruled out, even on the ELL itself.

Cue stage left uk.r protests *...

... anyway the 2 people giving the presentation were the top projects
bods from LU and NR and 5car with SDO is a possibility.

That at least implies that the manufacturing components needed to
build more Class 378 bodyshells haven't been reconfigured, which is
good news if a whole new set of units needs to be built.

Not necessary ... re-form 378 and turn the present 4car units into say
3car and 5car and make enough 5car units for the ELL., and acquire
something else to make up the loss and/or expand other LOROL routes.


Any 3 car units would only really be of use on GOBLIN (and would
probably need lengthening soon afterwards anyway), all the other LO
routes need at least the 4 car units already in use, but 2 x 3 car
units would need more units anyway.

You could just order a fifth car, of class 379 exterior design, for
the current units and add some more 5 car units (with class 379
exterior/doors) onto the order, it shouldn't be too expensive to
replace the coach ends with the wider ganway version needed for
interiors like the class 378s.

Mwmbwls wrote:

Although part of the original plan was to link the MML to Hornsey via
Gospel Oak, the plans were revised following objections from local
residents to the scale of the proposed development of Hornsey Depot -
they claimed their view of IMHO the ugly Alexandra Palace would be
spoilt.

If true, it must be conceded that putting the extra bits of the depot on
50ft-high stilts would have been silly for other reasons.
--
..sig down for maintenance