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Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
Dear all
I need to pick brains urgently re impact of the Olympics and their Travel Plan. I'm concerned that we may find travel to wok and deliveries disrupted. Here's the detail: We are based at Cherry Garden Pier in Bermondsey. That's off Jamaica Road, which is part of the Olympic Road Network. We are committed to intensifying our Westminster-Tower-Greenwich service during the Olympics. That means about 70-80 people coming in to work at Bermondsey between 0600 and 0900 and more at intervals throughout the day. Departures run from about 1600 to 2400. We also have deliveries including spares and supplies, perishables and other food and drink, which typically arrive 0800-1100 - and of course all the rubbish from the boats [thousands of passengers], pier and offices is collected daily. I'm told that there is a risk of delay to any bus service which touches the Olympic Road Network, and delays to 'non-Oly travellers' using the Jubilee and rail routes., all of which are well-used by staff. I'm planning a survey to find out staff travel routes etc and logging delivery times/volumes. And of course talking to the local council / TfL etc. What else? Any / all suggestions welcome Ken |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
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Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
Thanks, Paul
I do hope you're right. My worry is that Jamaica Road is the alternative to the A2 which is already very busy, which may make Olys switch, potentially holding up deliveries and buses. But the real area of concern is public transport. There are large numbers of us who use the JLE and various rail and Underground routes. Personally I will come in from Woolwich by Clippers to either Greenland or London Bridge - or DLR to Shadwell and then ELLX to Rotherhithe, which is walking distance when I'm feeling well. We must do our contingency planning well in advance. Ken On 2011-06-04 12:41:54 +0100, Paul Terry said: In message , lid writes We are based at Cherry Garden Pier in Bermondsey. That's off Jamaica Road, which is part of the Olympic Road Network. Jamaica Road is specified as an alternative route: "Only used if there is a problem on other routes – minimal traffic management measures anticipated". I therefore doubt that you will see much disruption unless something goes badly wrong with the main road network. The Jubilee Line, though, is a different matter - it could well struggle. I'd look at alternatives such as using the ELLX to Rotherhithe and then getting the C10 or 381 to Jamaica Road. |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
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Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 08:31:26 +0100, bearded wrote: Dear all I need to pick brains urgently re impact of the Olympics and their Travel Plan. I'm concerned that we may find travel to wok and deliveries disrupted. Here's the detail: We are based at Cherry Garden Pier in Bermondsey. That's off Jamaica Road, which is part of the Olympic Road Network. We are committed to intensifying our Westminster-Tower-Greenwich service during the Olympics. That means about 70-80 people coming in to work at Bermondsey between 0600 and 0900 and more at intervals throughout the day. Departures run from about 1600 to 2400. The Olympic events are not scheduled to start at a time which will affect AM peak travel flows. Many events do start at 9 am. This will require arrivals at mainline London stations about 8.00. This looks to me to be well inside the normal AM commute time. The idea that these are fringe events that will not attract many visitors is silly. If (as hoped) all of the events sell out there will be as many people travelling to these sessions as any other and as they are "morining only" sessions most people will be wanting to arrive at the start. Therefore people arriving in the time window you state should be fine. Note also that the Olympics coincide with the main school holidays so peak demand levels will be lower. The biggest issues will be around the off peak, PM peak plus a third peak in the evening when people start leaving Olympic events. This is one of the reasons for the later finish to tube and some train services - to get people away from venues. I don't understand this "night" peak. AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than 250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem? tim |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
In message , at 17:49:58 on Sun, 5 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked: Many events do start at 9 am. This will require arrivals at mainline London stations about 8.00. Which means departures from much of the country at 6am... and unavailable departures before that from the rest. I don't understand this "night" peak. AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than 250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem? Because many Intercity routes shut down too early. On the ECML, the last train to Newcastle is 10pm, and the next and last train (also serving intermediate stations of course) is 11.30pm to Leeds. People trying to get to those trains from an event typically finishing at 10pm in the Olympic Park would miss the Newcastle one and all be shoehorned on the Leeds one. I'm sure the timings are similar for many other routes, which will often be further from the Park than Kings Cross. The railways have another solution (on top of the extra late trains) - make tickets transferable to the morning of the next day. What I haven't seen is any idea where those passengers will spend the night. -- Roland Perry |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 17:49:58 on Sun, 5 Jun 2011, tim.... remarked: Many events do start at 9 am. This will require arrivals at mainline London stations about 8.00. Which means departures from much of the country at 6am... and unavailable departures before that from the rest. I don't understand this "night" peak. AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than 250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem? Because many Intercity routes shut down too early. On the ECML, the last train to Newcastle is 10pm, and the next and last train (also serving intermediate stations of course) is 11.30pm to Leeds. People trying to get to those trains from an event typically finishing at 10pm in the Olympic Park would miss the Newcastle one and all be shoehorned on the Leeds one. I'm sure the timings are similar for many other routes, which will often be further from the Park than Kings Cross. The railways have another solution (on top of the extra late trains) - make tickets transferable to the morning of the next day. What I haven't seen is any idea where those passengers will spend the night. -- Roland Perry If I can add some experience from the Sydney Olympics. Before the event there was widespread alarm about the disruption. However things worked out rather well, if fact people now look back on that period with fondness. Trains ran on time and everything worked. The effort put in to make it work was enormous and the city has never recovered- so much was spent that 10 years later we are still suffering from the money spend on those 14 days. I expect London and the Organising committee will do just as good a job. There was very little disruption because double or three times the transport that was needed was provided, and peak hours services (trains and bus) ran 24 hrs per day for the games period. Yes I think late night services will be organised, as someone mentioned a lot of events finish late, 10 to 11pm and people are not ready to go home so eating venues and party venues are just commencing. (hence the 24 hrs services). The city will really become a 24 hr city and in Sydney it not unusual to see peak hour crowds at 3 am. A lot of business did close down for the period and school holidays were rearranged to coincide, we even had daylight saving (in our winter) to help with the safe movement of people. Have a fun games. Peter Sydney |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
In message , tim....
writes If (as hoped) all of the events sell out there will be as many people travelling to these sessions as any other No there won't. With the exception of the 9th August, any events starting before 10am are in much smaller venues than the main Olympic Stadium. -- Paul Terry |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 17:49:58 on Sun, 5 Jun 2011, tim.... remarked: Many events do start at 9 am. This will require arrivals at mainline London stations about 8.00. Which means departures from much of the country at 6am... and unavailable departures before that from the rest. I don't understand this "night" peak. AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than 250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem? Because many Intercity routes shut down too early. Oh I see the need for extra trains. It's any justification in calling it a "peak" flow that I can't see! It just a later last train as is normal on New Year's eve. No-one calls that a third peak. tim |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
In message , at 13:21:40 on Mon, 6 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked: I don't understand this "night" peak. AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than 250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem? Because many Intercity routes shut down too early. Oh I see the need for extra trains. It's any justification in calling it a "peak" flow that I can't see! It's because everyone will be leaving the Olympic venues at pretty much the same time, creating a genuine "peak" flow at about 11pm, it having been quiet since maybe 8pm. It just a later last train as is normal on New Year's eve. No-one calls that a third peak. I hope it's more than just one extra train! For one thing, as in my examples up thread, they need to be taking people further from London than is traditional on a train starting at 9pm+ (I recall when the last train home to Westbury from Paddington was a party-pooping 8.30pm, which isn't so much an issue of Westbury's distance from London (approx 80 minutes) but because it was going to Plymouth and was expected to turn into a pumpkin at midnight. -- Roland Perry |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Sun, 5 Jun 2011 17:49:58 +0100, "tim...." wrote: I don't understand this "night" peak. AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than 250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem? I was merely relating what I have heard / read at work I wasn't referring to anything you wrote. I was talking about things that I myself had read in the press tim |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 13:21:40 on Mon, 6 Jun 2011, tim.... remarked: I don't understand this "night" peak. AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than 250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem? Because many Intercity routes shut down too early. Oh I see the need for extra trains. It's any justification in calling it a "peak" flow that I can't see! It's because everyone will be leaving the Olympic venues at pretty much the same time, creating a genuine "peak" flow at about 11pm, it having been quiet since maybe 8pm. It just a later last train as is normal on New Year's eve. No-one calls that a third peak. I hope it's more than just one extra train! It will probably be one per "end of line". Is that what you meant? For one thing, as in my examples up thread, they need to be taking people further from London than is traditional on a train starting at 9pm+ (I recall when the last train home to Westbury from Paddington was a party-pooping 8.30pm, It still is. Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no trains at all! Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
In message , at 18:12:52 on Mon, 6 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked: I hope it's more than just one extra train! It will probably be one per "end of line". Is that what you meant? No, I don't think one train, late enough for the stragglers, will be good enough for the majority of midnight travellers. The timetable has apparently been "released" but is not public. When we can see it, then these questions will be answered. For one thing, as in my examples up thread, they need to be taking people further from London than is traditional on a train starting at 9pm+ (I recall when the last train home to Westbury from Paddington was a party-pooping 8.30pm, It still is. Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no trains at all! And which therefore use Westbury as a railhead. (I used to drive there from Frome, for example). Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol The 20.35 is listed as the last train to Plymouth, the last to Taunton and Exeter is 21.45 (I'm ignoring the sleeper). -- Roland Perry |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 18:12:52 on Mon, 6 Jun 2011, tim.... remarked: I hope it's more than just one extra train! It will probably be one per "end of line". Is that what you meant? No, I don't think one train, late enough for the stragglers, will be good enough for the majority of midnight travellers. I think that's all most routes are going to get :-( The timetable has apparently been "released" but is not public. When we can see it, then these questions will be answered. For one thing, as in my examples up thread, they need to be taking people further from London than is traditional on a train starting at 9pm+ (I recall when the last train home to Westbury from Paddington was a party-pooping 8.30pm, It still is. Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no trains at all! And which therefore use Westbury as a railhead. (I used to drive there from Frome, for example). And can equally use Bath as a railhead Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol The 20.35 is listed as the last train to Plymouth, the last to Taunton and Exeter is 21.45 (I'm ignoring the sleeper). Why? What wrong with the sleeper? tim |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
In message , at 13:34:53 on Tue, 7 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked: Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no trains at all! And which therefore use Westbury as a railhead. (I used to drive there from Frome, for example). And can equally use Bath as a railhead In the general case - you have to be kidding! Dreadful journey, twice as far, horrible parking. For the Olympics, maybe people willing to drive for half an hour at 1.30am could use Bath instead. Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol The 20.35 is listed as the last train to Plymouth, the last to Taunton and Exeter is 21.45 (I'm ignoring the sleeper). Why? What wrong with the sleeper? Because there are a very limited number of sleeper routes (and sleeper capacity), and so you can't rely on a sleeper train to mop up all the late stragglers from the Olympics. You need other trains too. -- Roland Perry |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
Why not simply hold the whole Olympics at Olympia? The place is big
enough. |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 13:34:53 on Tue, 7 Jun 2011, tim.... remarked: Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no trains at all! And which therefore use Westbury as a railhead. (I used to drive there from Frome, for example). And can equally use Bath as a railhead In the general case - you have to be kidding! Dreadful journey, twice as far, horrible parking. For the Olympics, maybe people willing to drive for half an hour at 1.30am could use Bath instead. Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol The 20.35 is listed as the last train to Plymouth, the last to Taunton and Exeter is 21.45 (I'm ignoring the sleeper). Why? What wrong with the sleeper? Because there are a very limited number of sleeper routes (and sleeper capacity), and so you can't rely on a sleeper train to mop up all the late stragglers from the Olympics. You need other trains too. I was speaking generally. The (seated portion of the) sleeper train has been the last train of the day to Bath/Bristol and points west for 30 years. You can't discount it when working out the last train to those destinations. I accept that it won't be useful for the Olympics, but I thought we had got beyond that discussion. tim |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
"Offramp" wrote in message ... Why not simply hold the whole Olympics at Olympia? The place is big enough. would that be this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...impia_2007.JPG or this one: http://www.thinkconferences.co.uk/im...-venue-001.jpg tim |
Olympic impact on commuters and deliveries - serious worries
In message , Roland Perry
wrote: It's any justification in calling it a "peak" flow that I can't see! It's because everyone will be leaving the Olympic venues at pretty much the same time, creating a genuine "peak" flow at about 11pm, it having been quiet since maybe 8pm. In the 1910s and 1920s there was a similar late-night "peak" after the theatres finished. There were even special services (e.g. Aldwych to Finsbury Park). -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
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