On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 01:44:04PM +0100, Paul Scott wrote:

At a total of 11 stations, therefore, it is recommended
that interventions are investigated to understand and
address crowding by the end of Control Period 5 (CP5)
in 2019. The stations are as follows:

Basingstoke, Bristol Parkway, Clapham Junction
Liverpool Lime Street, London Charing Cross
London Fenchurch Street, London Victoria
Preston, Surbiton, Watford Junction, Wimbledon

Of those, the two I'm familiar with are Victoria and Clapham Junction.
The only part of Victoria that regularly gets horribly crowded is the
passageway from the main concourse to the stairs leading down to the
Victoria Line ticket hall. But that's because the tube station gets
horribly overcrowded and LU then close the gates. At Clapham Junction,
you get bad crowding at three points:

* in the tunnel, but it's not *that* bad; also note that I've not used
it since the new exit from the bridge to St John's Hill has opened,
that may have changed matters;
* on platform 2 when WLL trains arrive in the evening peak;
* on platform 17 when WLL trains arrive in the evening peak.

The problems on platform 2 are because the staircases up and down are
narrow, and there's some pointless buildings eating valuable platform
space.

The problems on platform 17 are because the staircases up and down are
even narrower and the platform is very narrow. The staircase problems
may be soluble, I doubt the platform problem is.

I am, of course, ignoring the crowding you get at both stations when it
all goes tits up, such as last night when platforms 15/16 at Clapham
were horribly crowded because some daft bugger had decided to take a
stroll on the tracks and so the trains were all screwed up.

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

Blessed are the pessimists, for they test their backups

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...

... Clapham Junction.

The problems on platform 2 are because the staircases up and down are
narrow, and there's some pointless buildings eating valuable platform
space.

The problems on platform 17 are because the staircases up and down are
even narrower and the platform is very narrow. The staircase problems
may be soluble, I doubt the platform problem is.

Having looked at the report in more detail now, I suspect Clapham Jn might
be one of many areas which hasn't been updated since the draft - the
Brighton Yard entrance seems to be described as if it is yet to happen...

I don't suppose they think of this as one of their more important reports...

Paul S

In message , David
Cantrell writes

The problems on platform 2 are because the staircases up and down are
narrow, and there's some pointless buildings eating valuable platform
space.

If nothing is done, I imagine the problems will become much worse when
the ELL starts using platform 2 next year.

--
Paul Terry

On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 03:14:42PM +0100, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , David
Cantrell writes
The problems on platform 2 are because the staircases up and down are
narrow, and there's some pointless buildings eating valuable platform
space.
If nothing is done, I imagine the problems will become much worse when
the ELL starts using platform 2 next year.

I don't think it would be that bad actually, provided you don't get WLL
and ELL trains arriving at the same time - will the track layout even
allow that?

Another route down from the platform would be nice, and it could perhaps
be done with minimal disruption to the rest of the station if it just
drops down over the side of the viaduct.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

Us Germans take our humour very seriously
-- German cultural attache talking to the Today Programme,
about the German supposed lack of a sense of humour, 29 Aug 2001

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
...

I don't think it would be that bad actually, provided you don't get WLL
and ELL trains arriving at the same time - will the track layout even
allow that?

There will be some simultaneous movements possible, because incoming ELL/SLL
trains will run past the existing stopping point to a new platform extended
out to the current centre track of 3. The new platform will then become P2,
the existing WLL platform will become a bay and be renumbered as P1.
(There are suggestions elsewhere that the whole island will also be extended
west by around 50m at the same time - this would allow for each platform to
deal with 6 car trains eventually.)

Another route down from the platform would be nice, and it could perhaps
be done with minimal disruption to the rest of the station if it just
drops down over the side of the viaduct.

The second set of stairs is to be reopened apparently, which will require a
rearrangement of the current gateline at the northern entrance. I wouldn't
be at all surprised if some or all of the current platform buildings get
demolished as well...

Paul S

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

There will be some simultaneous movements possible, because incoming
ELL/SLL trains will run past the existing stopping point to a new
platform extended out to the current centre track of 3. The new
platform will then become P2, the existing WLL platform will become a
bay and be renumbered as P1.

That isn't consistent with the reports that a Cambridge solution will be
adopted. For that to be the case there would need to be a new scissors
crossover halfway along platform 2 connecting to the through road.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Major redevelopment of Watford Junction has been on the cards for a
few years now, but seems to have stalled numerous times. Should really
all be rolled into the redevelopment of the Abbey line and the Croxley
link, but that would be joined up and sensible.

In message , David
Cantrell writes
On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 03:14:42PM +0100, Paul Terry wrote:

If nothing is done, I imagine the problems will become much worse when
the ELL starts using platform 2 next year.

I don't think it would be that bad actually, provided you don't get WLL
and ELL trains arriving at the same time - will the track layout even
allow that?

Yes it will. The intention is that the WLL will terminate at the
Waterloo end of platform 2 (to become platform 2a), and the ELL will
terminate at the country end of platform 2 (to become platform 2b and
accessed via the currently unused central track between the platform 2
and 3 tracks).

Another route down from the platform would be nice, and it could perhaps
be done with minimal disruption to the rest of the station if it just
drops down over the side of the viaduct.

An exit chute with safety net might be fun
--
Paul Terry

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...
On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 01:44:04PM +0100, Paul Scott wrote:

At a total of 11 stations, therefore, it is recommended
that interventions are investigated to understand and
address crowding by the end of Control Period 5 (CP5)
in 2019. The stations are as follows:

Basingstoke, Bristol Parkway, Clapham Junction
Liverpool Lime Street, London Charing Cross
London Fenchurch Street, London Victoria
Preston, Surbiton, Watford Junction, Wimbledon

Of those, the two I'm familiar with are Victoria and Clapham Junction.

I've never ever seen Basingstoke, Wimbledon or Surbiton anywhere near as
crowed as the tunnel at Clapham.

Perhaps I just go there at the wrong times

tim

"tim...." wrote in message
...
|
| "David Cantrell" wrote in message
| k...
| On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 01:44:04PM +0100, Paul Scott wrote:
|
| At a total of 11 stations, therefore, it is recommended
| that interventions are investigated to understand and
| address crowding by the end of Control Period 5 (CP5)
| in 2019. The stations are as follows:
|
| Basingstoke, Bristol Parkway, Clapham Junction
| Liverpool Lime Street, London Charing Cross
| London Fenchurch Street, London Victoria
| Preston, Surbiton, Watford Junction, Wimbledon
|
| Of those, the two I'm familiar with are Victoria and Clapham Junction.
|
| I've never ever seen Basingstoke, Wimbledon or Surbiton anywhere near as
| crowed as the tunnel at Clapham.
|
| Perhaps I just go there at the wrong times
|
| tim
|

It doesn't seem that long ago that Charing Cross was refurbished and the
tracks across the rebuilt Hungerford Bridge relaid.
Bill