Travelling on a FCC train on Monday morning, I overheard an announcement on
the train at 08:30 that the tunnel linking Kings Cross Thameslink with the
underground platforms was closed until 10:00 due to severe overcrowding.
Customers were advised to make their way outside by foot to Kings Cross (it
was raining cats and dogs at hte time). Around ten minutes later, I heard
an announcement on the underground that due to overcrowding, the entire
Kings Cross St Pancras station was closed, with no Circle/Hammersmith/Met
trains stopping there until further notice.

Yesterday, there was severe overcrowding at the same station at 17:45,
presumably due to the football at the Emirates Stadium. I managed to make
my way to the Victoria Line, which was becoming dangerously overcrowded -
part closure of the Piccadilly Line didn't help. As I squeezed onto a
northbound Victoria Line train, the tannoy advised "Due to a reported
emergency, can all customers please leave the station immediatley".

Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak times
(even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the entire
closure of the station a routine occurrence?

"Toby" wrote in message ...
Travelling on a FCC train on Monday morning, I overheard an announcement
on the train at 08:30 that the tunnel linking Kings Cross Thameslink with
the underground platforms was closed until 10:00 due to severe
overcrowding. Customers were advised to make their way outside by foot to
Kings Cross (it was raining cats and dogs at hte time). Around ten
minutes later, I heard an announcement on the underground that due to
overcrowding, the entire Kings Cross St Pancras station was closed, with
no Circle/Hammersmith/Met trains stopping there until further notice.

Yesterday, there was severe overcrowding at the same station at 17:45,
presumably due to the football at the Emirates Stadium. I managed to make
my way to the Victoria Line, which was becoming dangerously overcrowded -
part closure of the Piccadilly Line didn't help. As I squeezed onto a
northbound Victoria Line train, the tannoy advised "Due to a reported
emergency, can all customers please leave the station immediatley".

Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak
times (even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the
entire closure of the station a routine occurrence?

It would seem to be since the beginning of the summer. I too am a FCC
commuter to Kings X and have recently been caught up in this fiasco several
times.

María

On Sep 26, 7:18 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak times
(even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the entire
closure of the station a routine occurrence?

You have to remember that the london underground is a **** poor
overpriced service mainly run by indifferent bone idle staff who'd
sooner be off on strike than doing a days work. Personally I find it a
miracle it works at all. It only takes one line to pack up at KX
(which is an almost daily occurance due to the whole system being a
piece of ****) and the place starts to fill up pretty quick.

B2003

On 27 Sep, 16:14, Boltar wrote:
Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak times
(even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the entire
closure of the station a routine occurrence?

You have to remember that the london underground is a **** poor
overpriced service

****-poor is questionable; overpriced is demonstrably nonsense (given
that farebox income doesn't even cover operational costs, never mind
investment or any kind of profit-making).

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 27 Sep, 18:21, John B wrote:
On 27 Sep, 16:14, Boltar wrote:

Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak times
(even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the entire
closure of the station a routine occurrence?

You have to remember that the london underground is a **** poor
overpriced service

You have to remember... that Boltar must be allowed his rants.


****-poor is questionable; overpriced is demonstrably nonsense (given
that farebox income doesn't even cover operational costs, never mind
investment or any kind of profit-making).


In one sense it'd be great if LU fares were cheaper, but I don't think
that'd help to alleviate the overcrowding problem.

The current issues on the Circle and H&C lines (possible issues with
trains as discussed in another current thread entitled " Lack of
available trains") will likely be the cause of recent problems at
Kings Cross St Pancras.

However stations such as KXSP are always liable to be closed
temporarily if overcrowding occurs (and if there's a problem on any of
the lines stopping at the station this becomes a far more likely
possibility). I'd suggest some pretty obvious advice which is that
it's always a good idea for commuters to have a plan B and indeed C
should there be problems.

Picking up the Victoria line at Euston or Warren Street, the
Piccadilly line at Russell Square, the Northern line at Warren St/
Goodge St/ the Angel/ Mornington Crescent (bing!) or taking an FCC
train out of KX to Finsbury Park (Oyster PAYG is valid on National
Rail between these stations only - do remember to touch-in & out!) are
possibilities that spring to mind.

Those heading east-west should consider using the Central line (in
combination with the Bakerloo, Jubilee, Victoria or Northern as
required) and should bear in mind that Lancaster Gate station is
*very* close to Paddington, a 5 minute walk if even that. The Central
line will also deliver passengers to Mile End for interchange with the
District line heading east.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ps.com...
On 27 Sep, 18:21, John B wrote:
On 27 Sep, 16:14, Boltar wrote:

Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak
times
(even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the
entire
closure of the station a routine occurrence?

You have to remember that the london underground is a **** poor
overpriced service

You have to remember... that Boltar must be allowed his rants.

Please don't be so patronising. You will be telling us to move along down
the carriages next or to use all available doors... Boltar like myself is
probably a daily commuter who has to put up with a shoddy service that
treats its customers like trash but charges them a fortune, day after day.
Part of the problem is that the British tend to accept what they're given
without complaint, if more people complained and ranted things might change.


However stations such as KXSP are always liable to be closed
temporarily if overcrowding occurs (and if there's a problem on any of
the lines stopping at the station this becomes a far more likely
possibility).

It's this meek acceptance that is part of the problem. Why is a mainline
station in one of the most prosperous capital cities in the world liable to
close so frequently? Obviously there is/are some unacceptable design
fault(s) that should be remedied. I don't think it happens in other
developed countries.

I'd suggest some pretty obvious advice which is that
it's always a good idea for commuters to have a plan B and indeed C
should there be problems.

Picking up the Victoria line at Euston or Warren Street, the
Piccadilly line at Russell Square, the Northern line at Warren St/
Goodge St/ the Angel/ Mornington Crescent (bing!) or taking an FCC
train out of KX to Finsbury Park (Oyster PAYG is valid on National
Rail between these stations only - do remember to touch-in & out!) are
possibilities that spring to mind.

Those heading east-west should consider using the Central line (in
combination with the Bakerloo, Jubilee, Victoria or Northern as
required) and should bear in mind that Lancaster Gate station is
*very* close to Paddington, a 5 minute walk if even that. The Central
line will also deliver passengers to Mile End for interchange with the
District line heading east.

This is helpful advice.

María

On 27 Sep, 23:13, "María" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote:

On 27 Sep, 18:21, John B wrote:
On 27 Sep, 16:14, Boltar wrote:

Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak
times
(even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the
entire
closure of the station a routine occurrence?

You have to remember that the london underground is a **** poor
overpriced service

You have to remember... that Boltar must be allowed his rants.

Please don't be so patronising. You will be telling us to move along down
the carriages next or to use all available doors... Boltar like myself is
probably a daily commuter who has to put up with a shoddy service that
treats its customers like trash but charges them a fortune, day after day.
Part of the problem is that the British tend to accept what they're given
without complaint, if more people complained and ranted things might change.


It was just an off-hand comment, not really to be taken too seriously!
I don't follow his words that closely but he does have - IMO at least
- a little bit of a reputation for rants! I was not suggesting - not
for a second - that he shut up however. He's a contributor to this
newsgroup of some pedigree and it's all the richer for his presence,
and for the presence of many viewpoints.

I would disagree with your notion that LU treats it's customers like
trash, though yes there are times when it does a bad job (and
occasionally a very bad job). Regarding the cost - I don't regard LU's
fares as costing a 'fortune', but yes they can be more expensive than
many other metro systems around the world (though some of the
comparisons don't compare like with like - indeed it's often difficult
to compare like with like given the different fare structures in use).

As John Band has already pointed out the London Underground network
isn't a profitable endeavour - it is subsidised fairly heavily by
public money. However other metro systems around the world are more
heavily subsidised, and have also benefited from a constant investment
over the years - LU meanwhile is catching up on years of under-
investment. This is a far broader question of politics and policy.

In addition there is the more immediate concern that if fares were to
be lower tomorrow then this would encourage more passengers to use LU
- leading to further overcrowding problems. The existing network is
now undergoing modernisation to increase capacity - but there is only
so much that can be done. New lines would provide far more capacity
but they are incredibly expensive - the ongoing saga of getting
funding together for Crossrail (the new east-west metro line through
London) shows the difficulties that are encountered.

Ranting at LU won't help sort-out the fundamental issues regarding
transport policy - they'd love to build new lines here, there and
everywhere - and would do so if they were given the dosh! But such
decisions are for central government to make.


However stations such as KXSP are always liable to be closed
temporarily if overcrowding occurs (and if there's a problem on any of
the lines stopping at the station this becomes a far more likely
possibility).

It's this meek acceptance that is part of the problem. Why is a mainline
station in one of the most prosperous capital cities in the world liable to
close so frequently? Obviously there is/are some unacceptable design
fault(s) that should be remedied. I don't think it happens in other
developed countries.

The problems over the past few days have been caused by disruption on
the Circle, H&C and parts of the District line - which was caused in
turn by alleged problems with some trains. How much this is a real
issue and how much this is trade union sabre-rattling is not something
I'm clued up enough to judge - there are other discussions on this
newsgroup pertaining to all that.

When trains are running OK then it's far less likely for it to get
overcrowded and temporarily close.

Rebuilding the whole complex including the platforms, which would mean
the station had a bit more give before overcrowding would cause it to
close, would be a massive and very expensive project. And closing when
the station gets overcrowded is a sensible way to avert the risk of
mishaps that could otherwse occur.

Basically the best way to deal with potential overcrowding problems at
stations such as KXSP is for LU to ensure that all their lines are
working properly. The current modernisation plan's aim is to do just
that.


I'd suggest some pretty obvious advice which is that
it's always a good idea for commuters to have a plan B and indeed C
should there be problems.

Picking up the Victoria line at Euston or Warren Street, the
Piccadilly line at Russell Square, the Northern line at Warren St/
Goodge St/ the Angel/ Mornington Crescent (bing!) or taking an FCC
train out of KX to Finsbury Park (Oyster PAYG is valid on National
Rail between these stations only - do remember to touch-in & out!) are
possibilities that spring to mind.

Those heading east-west should consider using the Central line (in
combination with the Bakerloo, Jubilee, Victoria or Northern as
required) and should bear in mind that Lancaster Gate station is
*very* close to Paddington, a 5 minute walk if even that. The Central
line will also deliver passengers to Mile End for interchange with the
District line heading east.

This is helpful advice.

María

I think it worth having a plan in place to avoid potential trouble
spot stations such as KXSP and Victoria - most of the time of course
things will be fine, but when things get messed up it's very useful to
have a back-up - e.g. when Victoria underground station has been
closed for overcrowding (because of problems on the District and
Circle) it is just a short walk down to Pimlico for the Victoria line
- it is surprising how few people will actually do this though.
Actually having tested out any back-up plans is also helpful - Russell
Square station, for example, isn't in an instantly obvious location,
but once you've used it then you know how to find it.

Having a Tube map on you can also come in very handy in such
situations - a friend swears by his credit-card sized central London
Tube map which he carries in his wallet for just such an occasion.

Lastly I hope I haven't been patronising in this message - if I have
been I assure you it wasn't my intention!

On Sep 27, 6:21 pm, John B wrote:
On 27 Sep, 16:14, Boltar wrote:

Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak times
(even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the entire
closure of the station a routine occurrence?

You have to remember that the london underground is a **** poor
overpriced service

****-poor is questionable; overpriced is demonstrably nonsense (given
that farebox income doesn't even cover operational costs, never mind
investment or any kind of profit-making).

Its the most expensive metro in the world. If that doesn't count as
overpriced I'm not sure what does. And its also got the worst service
of any I've had the misfortune of using and that includes ones in
supposedly poverty striken eastern europe.

B2003

On Sep 27, 11:13 pm, "María" wrote:
probably a daily commuter who has to put up with a shoddy service that
treats its customers like trash but charges them a fortune, day after day.

Exactly. I had to renew my monthly oyster today - 127 quid. Bargain.
Not. Got on the train along with the other 200 odd people waiting on
the platform (presumably yet another rush hour cancellation) , train
went halfway to the next station and stopped. 5 minutes later we were
still stopped. Did the driver give us any info? Oh please. No doubt he
was too busy writing a fan letter to Uncle Bob and inquiring about
their next strike.

I wouldn't mind if this only happened occasionally , but it happens
every damn day at some point on the journey either going in or coming
home. And no I'm not exaggerating. I am however absolutely f*cking
sick of it.

B2003

On Sep 28, 12:48 am, Mizter T wrote:
for a second - that he shut up however. He's a contributor to this
newsgroup of some pedigree and it's all the richer for his presence,

Well thats a first

public money. However other metro systems around the world are more
heavily subsidised, and have also benefited from a constant investment
over the years - LU meanwhile is catching up on years of under-
investment. This is a far broader question of politics and policy.

True up to a point , but LU seems IMO to spend its money in the wrong
areas. New trains for example. What was the poing of buying shiny new
trains for the northern line when the signalling is+ on its last legs?
No one cares whether the train is new if they're stuck in a tunnel
with 1000 other people because of yet another signal failure (not to
mention the fact that the old 59 stock was more comfortable anyway but
thats another matter). They should have fixed the signalling first
*then* if there was any money left over buy new trains. Same for the
piccadilly line , yes , nice refurbs , but do I care about the paint
job when I'm stuck in a tunnel? No. Fix the damn signalling please and
worry about the asthetics later!

B2003