Exhibition Road has had the pavements and kerbs removed to turn it into
a place where pedestrians and vehicles don't quite know who is supposed
to be where. Apparently that's a good thing. Anyway, blind groups have
complained, so the former pavement area is now going to be covered in
.... wait for it... corduroy so that the blind will know when they are on
the former pavement area and when they are in the former road area.
Since the presence of the corduroy will also alert everyone else to the
location of the former pavement area, I can't help thinking that leaving
the original road, pavement and kerbs intact would have achieved similar
results with zero cost or disruption. No wonder the country's bankrupt.

Exhibition Road has had the pavements and kerbs removed to turn it
into a place where pedestrians and vehicles don't quite know who is
supposed to be where. Apparently that's a good thing. Anyway, blind
groups have complained, so the former pavement area is now going to
be covered in ... wait for it... corduroy so that the blind will know
when they are on the former pavement area and when they are in the
former road area. Since the presence of the corduroy will also alert
everyone else to the location of the former pavement area, I can't
help thinking that leaving the original road, pavement and kerbs
intact would have achieved similar results with zero cost or
disruption. No wonder the country's bankrupt.

I doubt if anyone involved is as stupid as someone who thinks readers
will believe they are going to use confuse (cotton fibre) corduroy
rather than the 800mm tactile paving corduroy which is what I have read
will be used. Or did *you* think it was going to be a cotton fibre?



--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

On 2011\09\26 16:08, Robin wrote:
Exhibition Road has had the pavements and kerbs removed to turn it
into a place where pedestrians and vehicles don't quite know who is
supposed to be where. Apparently that's a good thing. Anyway, blind
groups have complained, so the former pavement area is now going to
be covered in ... wait for it... corduroy so that the blind will know
when they are on the former pavement area and when they are in the
former road area. Since the presence of the corduroy will also alert
everyone else to the location of the former pavement area, I can't
help thinking that leaving the original road, pavement and kerbs
intact would have achieved similar results with zero cost or
disruption. No wonder the country's bankrupt.

I doubt if anyone involved is as stupid as someone who thinks readers
will believe they are going to use confuse (cotton fibre) corduroy
rather than the 800mm tactile paving corduroy which is what I have read
will be used. Or did *you* think it was going to be a cotton fibre?

Yes, I did. It did seem strange. But my point still stands - they've
spent a fortune on getting rid of the distinction between road and
footway, only to reinstate it.

Basil Jet wrote on 26 September 2011
16:13:43 ...
On 2011\09\26 16:08, Robin wrote:
Exhibition Road has had the pavements and kerbs removed to turn it
into a place where pedestrians and vehicles don't quite know who is
supposed to be where. Apparently that's a good thing. Anyway, blind
groups have complained, so the former pavement area is now going to
be covered in ... wait for it... corduroy so that the blind will know
when they are on the former pavement area and when they are in the
former road area. Since the presence of the corduroy will also alert
everyone else to the location of the former pavement area, I can't
help thinking that leaving the original road, pavement and kerbs
intact would have achieved similar results with zero cost or
disruption. No wonder the country's bankrupt.

I doubt if anyone involved is as stupid as someone who thinks readers
will believe they are going to use confuse (cotton fibre) corduroy
rather than the 800mm tactile paving corduroy which is what I have read
will be used. Or did *you* think it was going to be a cotton fibre?

Yes, I did. It did seem strange. But my point still stands - they've
spent a fortune on getting rid of the distinction between road and
footway, only to reinstate it.

You seem to think that the tactile ridged paving was an afterthought
following 'complaints'. I thought it was always part of the design.
They were carrying out tests of the ridged paving already installed on
the road as long ago as December 2010.

I'll just be glad when the bloody thing's finished, having just
experienced the works for the third Prom season.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 09:38:47PM +0100, Richard J. wrote:

I'll just be glad when the bloody thing's finished, having just
experienced the works for the third Prom season.

How on earth can it take *two years* to remove the pavements!?!!?

--
David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing

Planckton: n, the smallest possible living thing

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2011\09\26 16:08, Robin wrote:
Exhibition Road has had the pavements and kerbs removed to turn it
into a place where pedestrians and vehicles don't quite know who is
supposed to be where. Apparently that's a good thing. Anyway, blind
groups have complained, so the former pavement area is now going to
be covered in ... wait for it... corduroy so that the blind will know
when they are on the former pavement area and when they are in the
former road area. Since the presence of the corduroy will also alert
everyone else to the location of the former pavement area, I can't
help thinking that leaving the original road, pavement and kerbs
intact would have achieved similar results with zero cost or
disruption. No wonder the country's bankrupt.

I doubt if anyone involved is as stupid as someone who thinks readers
will believe they are going to use confuse (cotton fibre) corduroy
rather than the 800mm tactile paving corduroy which is what I have read
will be used. Or did *you* think it was going to be a cotton fibre?

Yes, I did. It did seem strange. But my point still stands - they've
spent a fortune on getting rid of the distinction between road and
footway, only to reinstate it.


The real stupidity is that blind people and other pedestrians will now
be aware of where the pavement is, or was, but drivers of vehicles
will not. So the blind people will feel that they are in a place of
some safety (the pavement) whereas car and van drivers, who won't be
aware of the too-subtle distinction, will just mow them down.

Anyone who wants to see the consequences of such a "traffic
management" scheme should go to Ashford in Kent, where the former
racetrack known as the town centre ring road has been converted into
two way streets, a proportion of which have no significant visual
delineation (from the drivers' point of view) between the pavement and
the roadway. Crossing the road is made immeasurably more difficult
because pedestrians aren't sure where the pavement ends, so they have
to stand well back from the roadway.

In this part of Ashford, there are probably few or no collisions
between pedestrians and cars now. That sounds like a success, and is
probably hailed as such by the scheme's designers, but the real reason
is that pedestrians now completely avoid that area of Ashford because
of the lack of pedestrian safety.

Having driven there several times recently, I have seen car drivers
confused by the lack of kerbs, reserved pavements and signage. I saw
cars driving the wrong way down a section of dual carriageway on three
separate occasions, all for the lack of a keep left sign.

I haven't seen Exhibition Road as rebuilt but I have seen some of the
plans for it and was pessimistic as to whether it would work. Such
schemes have apparently worked in other European countries but as far
as I know, only in narrow streets.

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 01:41:10PM +0100, Bruce wrote:

I haven't seen Exhibition Road as rebuilt but I have seen some of the
plans for it and was pessimistic as to whether it would work. Such
schemes have apparently worked in other European countries but as far
as I know, only in narrow streets.

And that's the problem with taking "solutions" that are "proven to work"
in little mainland European towns and trying to apply them to London.
There's nothing wrong with doing over Exhibition Road as an experiment,
to see if it works on wider streets with a different mix of traffic,
but it must be *as an experiment*, with measurable goals defined in
advance.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

Deck of Cards: $1.29.
"101 Solitaire Variations" book: $6.59.
Cheap replacement for the one thing Windows is good at: priceless
-- Shane Lazarus

"Robin" wrote in :

Exhibition Road has had the pavements and kerbs removed to turn it
into a place where pedestrians and vehicles don't quite know who is
supposed to be where. Apparently that's a good thing. Anyway, blind
groups have complained, so the former pavement area is now going to
be covered in ... wait for it... corduroy so that the blind will know
when they are on the former pavement area and when they are in the
former road area. Since the presence of the corduroy will also alert
everyone else to the location of the former pavement area, I can't
help thinking that leaving the original road, pavement and kerbs
intact would have achieved similar results with zero cost or
disruption. No wonder the country's bankrupt.

I doubt if anyone involved is as stupid as someone who thinks readers
will believe they are going to use confuse (cotton fibre) corduroy
rather than the 800mm tactile paving corduroy which is what I have read
will be used. Or did *you* think it was going to be a cotton fibre?




I would hope not. We are talking about the Royal Borough of Kensington and
Chelsea - not the East End. The tactile difference should at least be fur -
even if the budget can't stretch to mink. :-)

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:27:54 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

Exhibition Road has had the pavements and kerbs removed to turn it
into a place where pedestrians and vehicles don't quite know who is
supposed to be where. Apparently that's a good thing. Anyway, blind
groups have complained, so the former pavement area is now going to
be covered in ... wait for it... corduroy so that the blind will
know when they are on the former pavement area and when they are in
the former road area. Since the presence of the corduroy will also
alert everyone else to the location of the former pavement area, I
can't help thinking that leaving the original road, pavement and
kerbs intact would have achieved similar results with zero cost or
disruption. No wonder the country's bankrupt.

This is just the largest and most ludicrous example of "highway
engineering fashion" that has been implemented in London. You only
have to experience the smaller scale version on High Street Kensington
and nearly be run over about 10 times in a 100 yards to know it is a
preposterous idea.

I'm also not entirely convinced with the new obsession of removing
fencing and street furniture either. In some places you do need to
some obstructions if only to protect people from their own stupidity
of stepping on the highway when vehicles are driving past. I'd love
to know how many millions of pounds have been spent on this in recent
years. It could then be compared with the millions spent under Ken to
install it all and all the extra traffic lights. Neither policy has
achieved the optimum position and I fear we will forever lurch back
and forth between two policy extremes.

This fashion is more Kensington and Chelsea than all of London but I'm all
in favour of getting rid of railings. They are usually a real danger to
cyclists. Kerbs are another matter though. Without them motorists drive all
over the pavements. We learnt that in Cambridge 20 years ago and ended up
with a load of bollards.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:01:02PM -0500, wrote:

This fashion is more Kensington and Chelsea than all of London but I'm all
in favour of getting rid of railings. They are usually a real danger to
cyclists. Kerbs are another matter though. Without them motorists drive all
over the pavements. We learnt that in Cambridge 20 years ago and ended up
with a load of bollards.

Railings are a damned inconvenience to pedestrians too. Bollards are
fine.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

It wouldn't hurt to think like a serial killer every so often.
Purely for purposes of prevention, of course.