I wondered if anyone can help me. I've just had a very unhelpful
discussion with a ticket vendor at Finsbury Park station, but i don't
entirely trust his response.

I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire).
There are two obvious routes: (1) train to Cambridge and then train to
Shelford; (2) Tube to Tottenham Hale and then train to Shelford.

I'll probably go via Cambridge, but coming back it looks like both
routes may be quickest depending on when I arrive at the station
(which is a random variable).

Last time I did this I was sold a ticket:

From: U23* LONDN
To: Shelford Cambs
Route: NOT LONDON

I've now been told this is wrong as it won't allow me to travel from
Finsbury Park to Shelford via Cambridge.

Is that right? Is there any way I can do this (I don't mind having to
buy underground tickets as well if necessary)?

Your help would be greatly appreciated. If there is a website that
explains all this, I am happy to look there.

"Francis Davey" wrote in message
...
I wondered if anyone can help me. I've just had a very unhelpful
discussion with a ticket vendor at Finsbury Park station, but i don't
entirely trust his response.

I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire).
There are two obvious routes: (1) train to Cambridge and then train to
Shelford; (2) Tube to Tottenham Hale and then train to Shelford.

I'll probably go via Cambridge, but coming back it looks like both
routes may be quickest depending on when I arrive at the station
(which is a random variable).

Last time I did this I was sold a ticket:

From: U23* LONDN
To: Shelford Cambs
Route: NOT LONDON

I've now been told this is wrong as it won't allow me to travel from
Finsbury Park to Shelford via Cambridge.

Is that right? Is there any way I can do this (I don't mind having to
buy underground tickets as well if necessary)?

Your help would be greatly appreciated. If there is a website that
explains all this, I am happy to look there.

National Rail's online journey planner shows different fares for the two
routes, but more importantly explicitly states that you need buy multiple
(ie two) tickets for the journey via Cambridge - that strongly suggests that
the advice at FP is correct...

The U23* origin is an underground ticket, but AFAICS having bought it you
are constrained to the Victoria Line and a change at Tottenham Hale.

I think it is a route where once you've bought a ticket (or tickets) for one
route or the other you lose the other choice...

Paul

In message
, at
09:57:19 on Wed, 28 Sep 2011, Francis Davey remarked:
I wondered if anyone can help me. I've just had a very unhelpful
discussion with a ticket vendor at Finsbury Park station, but i don't
entirely trust his response.

I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire).
There are two obvious routes: (1) train to Cambridge and then train to
Shelford; (2) Tube to Tottenham Hale and then train to Shelford.

I'll probably go via Cambridge, but coming back it looks like both
routes may be quickest depending on when I arrive at the station
(which is a random variable).

If you know you are going in a loop, then you can buy a ticket from FP
to Cambridge; use the outbound half to Cambridge, then immediately use
the return half towards Liverpool St, but break your journey at
Shelford.

--
Roland Perry

In cam.misc Francis Davey wrote:
I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire).
There are two obvious routes: (1) train to Cambridge and then train to
Shelford; (2) Tube to Tottenham Hale and then train to Shelford.

There's another one that's only slightly fruitcake:
Finsbury Park to Hertford North
walk to Hertford East
Hertford East to Broxbourne
Broxbourne to Shelford

I wonder what the routing would make of that?

Theo

In message , at 01:04:45 on Thu,
29 Sep 2011, Theo Markettos
remarked:
I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire).
There are two obvious routes: (1) train to Cambridge and then train to
Shelford; (2) Tube to Tottenham Hale and then train to Shelford.

There's another one that's only slightly fruitcake:
Finsbury Park to Hertford North
walk to Hertford East
Hertford East to Broxbourne
Broxbourne to Shelford

I wonder what the routing would make of that?

It depends on whether you are allowed to walk between Hertford North and
East.

The [only] map which applies to this journey is WA.

If the Hertford's comprised a Routing Point Group Station[1] that would
allow walking between them[2].

They aren't marked as a Non-Routing-Point Interchange (which appears in
the key of recent maps), which I presume would allow walking, but
neither is *anywhere* else, nor is that term evident anywhere else in
the literature.

So it's impossible to say that it's definitely allowed, but it could be
allowed and yet not obviously so from the literature.

[1] Glasgow is a good example of one of those (with a walk between
Central and Queen St figuring in many journeys). nb Despite being marked
as one on map WA, Broxbourne isn't in the list of such groups (whereas
Stansted and Tottenham Hale are).

[2] Plus there are special rules about cross-London trips, that I won't
go into here.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

If you know you are going in a loop, then you can buy a ticket from FP to
Cambridge; use the outbound half to Cambridge, then immediately use the
return half towards Liverpool St, but break your journey at Shelford.

But if you are then sold a normal Finsbury Park to Cambridge ticket, it
won't be valid coming back the other way, because it wouldn't include U23
validity?

....also, if the journey really is Shelford TO Finsbury Park as in the
subject line, that would require use of the outward portion twice...

Paul S

In message , at 10:23:42 on
Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Paul Scott remarked:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

If you know you are going in a loop, then you can buy a ticket from
FP to Cambridge; use the outbound half to Cambridge, then immediately
use the return half towards Liverpool St, but break your journey at
Shelford.

But if you are then sold a normal Finsbury Park to Cambridge ticket, it
won't be valid coming back the other way, because it wouldn't include
U23 validity?

There are several tickets which could be bought (eg a Z U12 originating
one rather than Finsbury Park as such), but it looks like the cheapest
would be to buy the regular one, and pay the extra from Tottenham Hale
down to Finsbury Park.

...also, if the journey really is Shelford TO Finsbury Park as in the
subject line, that would require use of the outward portion twice...

It seemed clear to me that the journey in the title was the return leg.

eg "I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire)."
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

There are several tickets which could be bought (eg a Z U12 originating
one rather than Finsbury Park as such), but it looks like the cheapest
would be to buy the regular one, and pay the extra from Tottenham Hale
down to Finsbury Park.

But would a 'regular' (ie rail only) ticket from Finsbury Park to Cambridge
be valid on the WA route between Cambridge and Tottenham Hale at all?

Paul S

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
news
"Paul Scott" considered Wed, 28 Sep
2011 19:02:26 +0100 the perfect time to write:

"Francis Davey" wrote in message
...
I wondered if anyone can help me. I've just had a very unhelpful
discussion with a ticket vendor at Finsbury Park station, but i don't
entirely trust his response.

I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire).
There are two obvious routes: (1) train to Cambridge and then train to
Shelford; (2) Tube to Tottenham Hale and then train to Shelford.

I'll probably go via Cambridge, but coming back it looks like both
routes may be quickest depending on when I arrive at the station
(which is a random variable).

Last time I did this I was sold a ticket:

From: U23* LONDN
To: Shelford Cambs
Route: NOT LONDON

I've now been told this is wrong as it won't allow me to travel from
Finsbury Park to Shelford via Cambridge.

Is that right? Is there any way I can do this (I don't mind having to
buy underground tickets as well if necessary)?

Your help would be greatly appreciated. If there is a website that
explains all this, I am happy to look there.

National Rail's online journey planner shows different fares for the two
routes, but more importantly explicitly states that you need buy multiple
(ie two) tickets for the journey via Cambridge - that strongly suggests
that
the advice at FP is correct...

The U23* origin is an underground ticket, but AFAICS having bought it you
are constrained to the Victoria Line and a change at Tottenham Hale.

I think it is a route where once you've bought a ticket (or tickets) for
one
route or the other you lose the other choice...

Paul

This has been a total mess for at least the last 25 years.
My wife's best friend, who was staying at her aunt's in Hoddesdon, was
made to route via Liverpool St, King's Cross and Royston to get to
Meldreth to meet my wife for our wedding where she was to be a
bridesmaid. Royston was being run as a sort of double ended terminus
in those days, as it was the limit of electrification, which made the
route via Cambridge both shorter and much quicker, and the one we had
worked out timetabling for (being by far the most obvious).
Obviously, this was pre-mobile phones, so we had no idea why she was
delayed, or any chance to give her any advice (she didn't know this
part of the country at all), so she was left completely at the mercy
of the numpty selling tickets at Hoddesdon.

If he'd had any sense at all, he'd have advised her to get 2 returns -
Hoddesdon - Cambridge and Cambridge - Meldreth, even if it wasn't
offered as a single ticket route.
I think they'd rather run empty trains, and have the potential
passengers drive instead.

I can't make up my mind whether some of these problems stem from the person
in the ticket office, the local manager or the TOC. Experience with a
range for FGW offices tends to suggest a localised problem rather than the
TOC because I've had some (one in particular) refuse to sell valid
combinations where others might grumble at the amount of work but do as
requested. The one that refuses to sell certain things has been doing it
since Thames Trains days and the staff in the office haven't changed much so
I'm guessing it's totally localised. I did complain on one occasion and
things improved for a while but a recent incident shows they are back to
their old, bad, ways again.

In message , at 11:12:18 on
Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Paul Scott remarked:
There are several tickets which could be bought (eg a Z U12
originating one rather than Finsbury Park as such), but it looks like
the cheapest would be to buy the regular one, and pay the extra from
Tottenham Hale down to Finsbury Park.

But would a 'regular' (ie rail only) ticket from Finsbury Park to
Cambridge be valid on the WA route between Cambridge and Tottenham Hale
at all?

An "Any Permitted" one would, versus a "Not London". The former is about
£2 more expensive.

In fact, now I look closer, you don't need to do the BoJ trick, because
a FP-Shelford ticket is the same price as a FP-Cambridge one (ie the
final leg south is free). It also means that if you buy the Shelford
ticket it's possible to return via Cambridge as well as arrive that way.

So the rail-only ticket needed is a FP-Shelford Any Permitted, but it's
entirely possible others are cheaper, partly because of throwing away
the Tottenham Hale onwards entitlement.

And we still don't know if this is a day trip or not, or Off-peak or not
(either of which might affect the result). Although U23* tickets are
only available as Day tickets, so that might be a clue.

opFrom: U23* LONDN
opTo: Shelford Cambs
opRoute: NOT LONDON
op
opI've now been told this is wrong as it won't allow me to travel from
opFinsbury Park to Shelford via Cambridge.

I think the ticket is valid via Cambridge, because like the Finsbury
Park one it's the same price to either Cambridge or Shelford.

ps the Avantix code for U23* London is 0797.
pps I'm assuming that the U23* ticket allows use of the Underground to
Tottenham Hale, not sure where to look that one up though.
--
Roland Perry