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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
"Andy Breen" wrote in message
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 21:50:23 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 03/11/2011 21:08, Recliner wrote: "Graeme wrote in message On 03/11/2011 09:46, Mike Bristow wrote: In article4c96e498-1358-4e79-a673- , wrote: What's not to like? :-) The fact that it's east of London. Given that the prevailing winds are east/west, it seems silly to put an airport to the east (or west) of London, rather than North or South - it means that the noise will impact more people. Prevailing winds are actually westerly hence the claim that the airport can operate 24/7 because the approach will be mainly over the North Sea. What they've omitted to mention is that departures will be straight over London. Not a problem -- planes can turn sharply within a couple of miles of take-off. They hardly ever stay straight all the way up to altitude. So none need fly over central London. They've still got to feed in to the different airways. some of which will still take them over London. And the more wiggling about they do, the more fuel they will have to burn - particularly if they have to do it just after take-off, when they're heavy with fuel. That's got immediate environmental costs, will add to operating costs and could make the airport unattractive for airlines operating the very long-haul routes (Japan, Australia..). You also really don't want to be manoevering at maximum weight and have an engine ingest a goose. That could lead to substantial stress in the cockpit. Regardless of what's on the ground, they routinely start to turn very soon after take-off, so as to head in the direction they need to fly (ie, to join the airway). It's not normally straight ahead. Also, planes take off much more steeply than the landing glide slope, so they quickly reach an altitude high enough that noise isn't a problem. Heavy four-engined planes do take off at a shallower angle than twins, but it's still much steeper than the 3 degree glide slope. I'm off to Shanghai tomorrow, and I very much doubt that we'll fly over central London, even if the take-off is from 09R (they don't normally use 09L for take-offs, as that would route flights at low altitude over populated areas). |
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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
On 03/11/2011 22:59, Recliner wrote:
"Andy wrote in message On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 21:50:23 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 03/11/2011 21:08, Recliner wrote: "Graeme wrote in message On 03/11/2011 09:46, Mike Bristow wrote: In article4c96e498-1358-4e79-a673- , wrote: What's not to like? :-) The fact that it's east of London. Given that the prevailing winds are east/west, it seems silly to put an airport to the east (or west) of London, rather than North or South - it means that the noise will impact more people. Prevailing winds are actually westerly hence the claim that the airport can operate 24/7 because the approach will be mainly over the North Sea. What they've omitted to mention is that departures will be straight over London. Not a problem -- planes can turn sharply within a couple of miles of take-off. They hardly ever stay straight all the way up to altitude. So none need fly over central London. They've still got to feed in to the different airways. some of which will still take them over London. And the more wiggling about they do, the more fuel they will have to burn - particularly if they have to do it just after take-off, when they're heavy with fuel. That's got immediate environmental costs, will add to operating costs and could make the airport unattractive for airlines operating the very long-haul routes (Japan, Australia..). You also really don't want to be manoevering at maximum weight and have an engine ingest a goose. That could lead to substantial stress in the cockpit. Regardless of what's on the ground, they routinely start to turn very soon after take-off, so as to head in the direction they need to fly (ie, to join the airway). It's not normally straight ahead. I used to live in Reading which is almost exactly due west of Heathrow. Tell me again about the planes having turned off before then. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
In message , at 08:05:18 on Fri, 4
Nov 2011, Graeme Wall remarked: Regardless of what's on the ground, they routinely start to turn very soon after take-off, so as to head in the direction they need to fly (ie, to join the airway). It's not normally straight ahead. I used to live in Reading which is almost exactly due west of Heathrow. Tell me again about the planes having turned off before then. A few head west over Reading, but others turn over Windsor. It depends where they are going. But there's no need to argue about this, actual data he http://www.flightradar24.com/ I've just watched a Heathrow-Edinburgh flight take off west and turn right over Cookham heading for High Wycombe then Bedford; and a Barcelona flight skirting the east edge of Windsor Great Park on the way to Guildford. -- Roland Perry |
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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
On Nov 4, 9:23*am, Roland Perry wrote:
A few head west over Reading, but others turn over Windsor. It depends where they are going. I've always wondeed why Windsor castle was built in the flight path of Heathrow. |
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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
On 04/11/2011 08:55, amogles wrote:
On Nov 4, 9:23 am, Roland wrote: A few head west over Reading, but others turn over Windsor. It depends where they are going. I've always wondeed why Windsor castle was built in the flight path of Heathrow. William the Conqueror found it convenient for the airport. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
In article
, amogles wrote: On Nov 4, 9:23*am, Roland Perry wrote: A few head west over Reading, but others turn over Windsor. It depends where they are going. I've always wondeed why Windsor castle was built in the flight path of Heathrow. It's so that you get that great view of it when you walk through the gates of Legoland. Sam |
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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
On 04/11/2011 08:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:05:18 on Fri, 4 Nov 2011, Graeme Wall remarked: Regardless of what's on the ground, they routinely start to turn very soon after take-off, so as to head in the direction they need to fly (ie, to join the airway). It's not normally straight ahead. I used to live in Reading which is almost exactly due west of Heathrow. Tell me again about the planes having turned off before then. A few head west over Reading, but others turn over Windsor. It depends where they are going. So some do go straight ahead, contrary to what you said before. In addition some of those that do turn will be turning north-west across London, it's a big place. But there's no need to argue about this, actual data he http://www.flightradar24.com/ I've just watched a Heathrow-Edinburgh flight take off west and turn right over Cookham heading for High Wycombe then Bedford; Extrapolate that to a take off east of London and what route will it take? and a Barcelona flight skirting the east edge of Windsor Great Park on the way to Guildford. A fun site that. There's a Virgin flight to Barbados passing over me at the moment. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
In message , at 10:52:15 on Fri, 4
Nov 2011, Graeme Wall remarked: Regardless of what's on the ground, they routinely start to turn very soon after take-off, so as to head in the direction they need to fly (ie, to join the airway). It's not normally straight ahead. I used to live in Reading which is almost exactly due west of Heathrow. Tell me again about the planes having turned off before then. A few head west over Reading, but others turn over Windsor. It depends where they are going. So some do go straight ahead, contrary to what you said before. That was my first posting to the thread, so no I didn't say anything before. In addition some of those that do turn will be turning north-west across London, it's a big place. What's important here is how far west of Heathrow they get, so we can compare how far west of the estuary airport the planes might turn. There's a flight to Los Angeles coming over Notts soon, and that stayed within 5Km of the end of the runway (measuring east-west; it flew just east of High Wycombe). But there's no need to argue about this, actual data he http://www.flightradar24.com/ I've just watched a Heathrow-Edinburgh flight take off west and turn right over Cookham heading for High Wycombe then Bedford; Extrapolate that to a take off east of London and what route will it take? No further west than the M25. There's an air lane over Maidstone, Harlow, Corby, Nottingham with loads of transatlantic flights from continental Europe currently. -- Roland Perry |
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London Hub proposal published by Halcrow/Foster+Partners
In message , at 11:08:57 on Fri, 4 Nov
2011, Roland Perry remarked: There's an air lane over Maidstone, Harlow, Corby, Nottingham with loads of transatlantic flights from continental Europe currently. A United flight from Paris to Chicago has just flown over my house, and I mean *right* over - on the mapping site it was within one house width. -- Roland Perry |
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