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Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/...mail&utm_term=
By Richard Johnstone | 15 November 2011 An extension to the London underground network could be one of the projects given the go-ahead after a London council was awarded two top credit ratings. The London Borough of Wandsworth, which has become the third council in England in just over a month to get a credit rating, has been awarded triple-A status by two agencies, Moody’s and Fitch. The council said that the ratings were a recognition that the authority’s financial management and budgetary control were among ‘the best in the world’. Cabinet member for finance and corporate resources Guy Senior said that the announcement opened up new possibilities for the council, including for any necessary borrowing to pay for a planned extension to the Northern Line. More than £200m has already been pledged towards the cost of the new line between Kennington and Battersea via Nine Elms by REO, the owners of Battersea power station. It is planned that the project will be completed through private sector contributions. However, Senior added that the council could now be in a position to raise any extra necessary funds. ‘If we have to raise funds for big capital investment projects like the extension of the Northern Line to Nine Elms, then we would be able to do at the best rates of interest,’ he said. ‘Investors and lenders will be prepared to invest money into the borough at low rates of return because they know that we are a safe and solid bet. This means our council tax payers will be getting the best deal available on big capital projects that [will] make Wandsworth a better place to live.’ Local authorities began to get credit rated as part of plans to issue bonds to raise the money needed to buy out of the Housing Revenue Account system. It was initially thought it would be cheaper to borrow this way, to take on a proportion of council housing debt, after the Treasury raised the Public Works Loan Board interest rates in October 2010.However, in September the government cut the rate for HRA borrowing from 1% above gilts to around 0.2%. Despite this, some authorities have continued with the process of becoming credit rated to allow them to issue bonds in the future, potentially to pay for capital schemes such as transport projects. Birmingham was the first to announce its rate in October 12, and on November 3, Lancashire County Council was given an Aa1 rating. |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In article ,
(John Salmon) wrote: http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/...nsion-plan-as- wandsworth-gets-triple-a-ratings/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_ter m= By Richard Johnstone | 15 November 2011 An extension to the London underground network could be one of the projects given the go-ahead after a London council was awarded two top credit ratings. The London Borough of Wandsworth, which has become the third council in England in just over a month to get a credit rating, has been awarded triple-A status by two agencies, Moody_s and Fitch. The council said that the ratings were a recognition that the authority_s financial management and budgetary control were among _the best in the world_. Cabinet member for finance and corporate resources Guy Senior said that the announcement opened up new possibilities for the council, including for any necessary borrowing to pay for a planned extension to the Northern Line. More than £200m has already been pledged towards the cost of the new line between Kennington and Battersea via Nine Elms by REO, the owners of Battersea power station. It is planned that the project will be completed through private sector contributions. However, Senior added that the council could now be in a position to raise any extra necessary funds. _If we have to raise funds for big capital investment projects like the extension of the Northern Line to Nine Elms, then we would be able to do at the best rates of interest,_ he said. _Investors and lenders will be prepared to invest money into the borough at low rates of return because they know that we are a safe and solid bet. This means our council tax payers will be getting the best deal available on big capital projects that [will] make Wandsworth a better place to live._ Local authorities began to get credit rated as part of plans to issue bonds to raise the money needed to buy out of the Housing Revenue Account system. It was initially thought it would be cheaper to borrow this way, to take on a proportion of council housing debt, after the Treasury raised the Public Works Loan Board interest rates in October 2010.However, in September the government cut the rate for HRA borrowing from 1% above gilts to around 0.2%. Despite this, some authorities have continued with the process of becoming credit rated to allow them to issue bonds in the future, potentially to pay for capital schemes such as transport projects. Birmingham was the first to announce its rate in October 12, and on November 3, Lancashire County Council was given an Aa1 rating. Are Wandsworth planning to use Tax Increment Funding to repay the money I wonder? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:05:14 +0000, Robin9 wrote:
Regardless of any ambitions Wandsworth Council may have, the top priority for extending the Northern Line should be a line from Kennington to Clapham Junction. The biggest single anomaly in London's public transport system is the fact that the busiest station in the U. K. is in London but is not connected to the Underground. If Wandsworth Council want such a line to continue south from Clapham Junction, all well and good but an extension that by-passes Clapham Junction should not be allowed. Would the Northen Line have enough capaity to cope with the increase in passengers a station at Clapham Junction would generate? -- jhk |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
"Jarle H Knudsen" wrote in message
. .. On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:05:14 +0000, Robin9 wrote: Regardless of any ambitions Wandsworth Council may have, the top priority for extending the Northern Line should be a line from Kennington to Clapham Junction. The biggest single anomaly in London's public transport system is the fact that the busiest station in the U. K. is in London but is not connected to the Underground. If Wandsworth Council want such a line to continue south from Clapham Junction, all well and good but an extension that by-passes Clapham Junction should not be allowed. Would the Northen Line have enough capaity to cope with the increase in passengers a station at Clapham Junction would generate? Of course not. That'll be the reason TfL have already decided they won't be taking the Northern Line to Clapham Jn... Paul S |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
On Nov 17, 9:25*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote: "Jarle H Knudsen" wrote in messagenews:12lyif566z9r6$.1adstjft190o1$.dlg@40tu de.net... On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:05:14 +0000, Robin9 wrote: Regardless of any ambitions Wandsworth Council may have, the top priority for extending the Northern Line should be a line from Kennington to Clapham Junction. The biggest single anomaly in London's public transport system is the fact that the busiest station in the U. K. is in London but is not connected to the Underground. If Wandsworth Council want such a line to continue south from Clapham Junction, all well and good but an extension that by-passes Clapham Junction should not be allowed. Would the Northen Line have enough capaity to cope with the increase in passengers a station at Clapham Junction would generate? Of course not. * That'll be the reason TfL have already decided they won't be taking the Northern Line to Clapham Jn... I've still not heard a good argument why someone would get off a fast train at Clapham Junction to take a slow tube to Waterloo....where that fast train was going anyway. Perhaps for the services going to Victoria, but why wouldn't you just stay on the train and take the District from Victoria? I think a station at Clapham Junction would do wonders for serving the local area if done correctly, and to the same end I'd add a few more. Clapham Junction, Battersea Central (on Battersea Park Road), Battersea Park (proper unified station, not the 3 disparate ones we will end up with), Nine Elms, then Vauxhall. |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
Jamie Thompson wrote:
I've still not heard a good argument why someone would get off a fast train at Clapham Junction to take a slow tube to Waterloo....where that fast train was going anyway. If it's anything like Stratford & Liverpool Street, part of the attraction is that you're more likely to get a seat if you board at Stratford, plus the connection at Stratford is easier. I assume a Clapham Junction tube station would have a better layout for interchange than Waterloo, although obviously it won't be cross-platform interchange with metro services. |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:38:12 -0800 (PST)
Jamie Thompson wrote: I've still not heard a good argument why someone would get off a fast train at Clapham Junction to take a slow tube to Waterloo....where that fast train was going anyway. Perhaps for the services going to Quite. The only reason clapham junction is busy is because its a junction, its not because anyone actually wants to visit that godforsaken dump. They just change trains there. What would be the point of a tube line going there? B2003 |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
"Jamie Thompson" wrote in message
... ...I think a station at Clapham Junction would do wonders for serving the local area if done correctly, and to the same end I'd add a few more. Clapham Junction, Battersea Central (on Battersea Park Road), Battersea Park (proper unified station, not the 3 disparate ones we will end up with), Nine Elms, then Vauxhall. TfL have also explained that there can't be an interchange at Vauxhall, IIRC... Only the Charing Cross branch can possibly handle the increase in passengers. Paul S |
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2) To facilitate easier travel between the City and destinations served via Clapham Junction. You seem to have overlooked the fact that many, perhaps most, of the travellers who alight at Victoria and Waterloo do not want to be at those places anymore than people wish to be at Clapham Junction. Consequently huge numbers of passengers try, not always successfully, to access the Underground at those two stations. TfL is now spending an astronomical sum to expand the capacity of Victoria Underground Station to cope with peak demand that lasts . . . how long? Two, perhaps three hours a day? Five days a week? About forty-five weeks a year? And did not TfL spend a large amount of money on Victoria a few years ago? Incidentally there are many who would disagree with your assessment of that part of Battersea. |
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Let's now turn your argument on its head. Why would anyone working near the Bank Of England who travels via Clapham Junction prefer to stay on their train to Waterloo (or Victoria) knowing full well that they will have to fight even to gain access to the Underground platforms and then be crushed like sardines in an overcrowded train and have to make an extra train change when the alternative is to change at Clapham Junction into a train that is not yet crowded and which may well have unfilled seats? |
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Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
On Nov 18, 10:36*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote: TfL have also explained that there can't be an interchange at Vauxhall, IIRC... *Only the Charing Cross branch can possibly handle the increase in passengers. ....which I firmly disagree with. Though IIRC, they only said it would be slightly more expensive to build than a normal station. Loading- wise, the Victoria line as-is probably couldn't take the loads, true (though a large chunk will be joining the Vic Line at Victoria anyway), but once Chelney arrives it will be able to, and we'll wish the line ran under Vauxhall with platform tunnels already excavated waiting to be fitted out. Basic planning people - it's not rocket science. It's a transport network after all...what's the point if you aren't going to build interchanges - it's like we're heading back to the tubes as--built where interchange were a novelty as they didn't want you using competing company's lines. |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Paul Scott
writes "Jamie Thompson" wrote in message ... ...I think a station at Clapham Junction would do wonders for serving the local area if done correctly, and to the same end I'd add a few more. Clapham Junction, Battersea Central (on Battersea Park Road), Battersea Park (proper unified station, not the 3 disparate ones we will end up with), Nine Elms, then Vauxhall. TfL have also explained that there can't be an interchange at Vauxhall, IIRC... Only the Charing Cross branch can possibly handle the increase in passengers. I thought all this rumour started because the American Embassy was moving from *square to the New Covent Garden and wanted the Northern extended down there from Kennington, where upon TfL said it would only consider the route if it continued south to serve Clapham Junction. Have things really taken hold enough for a serious bid from Wandsworth to get it down to there and if so where will it terminate? Indeed, would they put in a loop there and do away with Kennington loop leaving just the siding? -- Clive |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message
, Jamie Thompson writes but once Chelney arrives What's "Chelney"? -- Clive |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
"Clive" wrote in message
... I thought all this rumour started because the American Embassy was moving from *square to the New Covent Garden and wanted the Northern extended down there from Kennington, where upon TfL said it would only consider the route if it continued south to serve Clapham Junction. Don't know where that last bit comes from. The online info I've found all says the opposite. Have things really taken hold enough for a serious bid from Wandsworth to get it down to there and if so where will it terminate? Indeed, would they put in a loop there and do away with Kennington loop leaving just the siding? The basic route is agreed- they are working on the details now, there is significant info about it online: http://www.northernlineextension.com/ the plan is to branch off from, and back onto the existing Kennington Loop and run to a two platform terminus at Battersea. Only trains from the Charing Cross branch will be able to reach the extension. The latest consultation (just closed) was about the details of certain surface temporary works for the build programme - which suggests they are moving on towards the TWA application. Paul S |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Clive
writes I thought all this rumour started because the American Embassy was moving from *square to the New Covent Garden and wanted the Northern extended down there from Kennington, where upon TfL said it would only consider the route if it continued south to serve Clapham Junction. Have things really taken hold enough for a serious bid from Wandsworth to get it down to there and if so where will it terminate? The trigger for the plan was the redevelopment of Battersea Power Station, which is where the Northern Line extension is planned to end. The developers of the power station (Treasury Holdings) are putting up most of the funding, but the US embassy is prepared to contribute because of the likelihood of a station at Nine Elms. I can't see projection to Clapham Junction being practical, despite the enthusiasm of the LB of Wandsworth - it would need substantial rebuilding of the NR station, which is on a very cramped site and which is of course incredibly busy. It's one of the main reasons why Crossrail 2 is planned to run further west (via Putney) - Clapham Junction is full for the foreseeable future. -- Paul Terry |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Clive
writes What's "Chelney"? The Chelsea-Hackney line, more properly known as Crossrail 2. -- Paul Terry |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
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Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
wrote in message ... In article , (Paul Scott) wrote: The basic route is agreed- they are working on the details now, there is significant info about it online: http://www.northernlineextension.com/ the plan is to branch off from, and back onto the existing Kennington Loop and run to a two platform terminus at Battersea. Only trains from the Charing Cross branch will be able to reach the extension. The latest consultation (just closed) was about the details of certain surface temporary works for the build programme - which suggests they are moving on towards the TWA application. Have they now dropped the option for an intermediate station on the branch? I didn't explicitly mention the station at Nine Elms, but only because the earlier poster (Clive) had only asked where the line would terminate... Paul S Paul |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Paul Scott
writes I didn't explicitly mention the station at Nine Elms, but only because the earlier poster (Clive) had only asked where the line would terminate... I'll be as clear as I can. I don't know anything about London but a friend of mine that lives there said "Nine Elms" had now changed it's name to "New Covent Garden", hence my original assertion, but I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong, indeed I would appreciate anything that I don't know being filled in. Hence I have made a few connections that may very well be wrong. To this end, I would like to know what is the history and subsequent progress of the planning of this new line. I know the Kennington loop only connects with the west end side of the northern line because back in the 60s and 70s I worked on it, will it stay in service? When I worked there we used to run a frequent service from Golders Green-Golders Green via the Kennington loop so I was wondering will it remain or be moved south etc.? Hope you can now see that I approach this from a position of ignorance. -- Clive |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Clive
writes I'll be as clear as I can. I don't know anything about London but a friend of mine that lives there said "Nine Elms" had now changed it's name to "New Covent Garden", I think that may be an estate-agent term. Officially the area is still known as Nine Elms. I would like to know what is the history and subsequent progress of the planning of this new line. There's a lot of information at http://northernlineextension.com I know the Kennington loop only connects with the west end side of the northern line because back in the 60s and 70s I worked on it, will it stay in service? Almost certainly, as the proposed terminus of the extension at Battersea is only two-track, which would not be sufficient for turning back the full peak-time service of the CX branch. I don't think any service pattern has yet been proposed, but I guess that it might well involve alternates trains turning at Kennington and Battersea. The four proposed routes (of which number 2 is the preferred option) can be seen in: http://northernlineextension.com/med...ns_lr_pages.pd f You will see that they all involve the extension turning off one side of the existing Kennington loop and returning to the opposite side of the loop. -- Paul Terry |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
On 2011\11\20 10:53, Paul Terry wrote:
I know the Kennington loop only connects with the west end side of the northern line because back in the 60s and 70s I worked on it, will it stay in service? Almost certainly, as the proposed terminus of the extension at Battersea is only two-track, which would not be sufficient for turning back the full peak-time service of the CX branch. Why not? Surely more trains are turned in the two-track terminus at Brixton. |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Basil Jet
writes On 2011\11\20 10:53, Paul Terry wrote: I know the Kennington loop only connects with the west end side of the northern line because back in the 60s and 70s I worked on it, will it stay in service? Almost certainly, as the proposed terminus of the extension at Battersea is only two-track, which would not be sufficient for turning back the full peak-time service of the CX branch. Why not? Surely more trains are turned in the two-track terminus at Brixton. I may have been unduly pessimistic. I've just seen that the Parsons Brinckerhoff feasibility study into the Northern Line extension estimates that the Battersea terminus could be capable of turning a maximum of 28 trains per hour, which I think is the current peak service on the CX branch (and on the Vic). However, I doubt that the Kennington loop would be abandoned, as there won't be the passenger demand for the full service to run to Battersea. Most people will still want to change at Kennington in order to continue south towards Clapham and beyond. -- Paul Terry |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Paul Terry
writes Almost certainly, as the proposed terminus of the extension at Battersea is only two-track, which would not be sufficient for turning back the full peak-time service of the CX branch. I don't think any service pattern has yet been proposed, but I guess that it might well involve alternates trains turning at Kennington and Battersea. The four proposed routes (of which number 2 is the preferred option) can be seen in: http://northernlineextension.com/med...ons_lr_pages.p d f Sorry but this link just gives me a 404. -- Clive |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Clive
writes Sorry but this link just gives me a 404. You need to include the last letter of the link, which was line-wrapped. Here it is again, hopefully unwrapped this time: http://northernlineextension.com/med...s_lr_pages.pdf -- Paul Terry |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
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Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In message , Paul Terry
writes http://northernlineextension.com/med...ons_lr_pages.p df Thank you, I now have a much better grasp of what is happening. -- Clive |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
"Robin9" wrote in message
... d;124354 Wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:38:12 -0800 (PST) Jamie Thompson wrote:- I've still not heard a good argument why someone would get off a fast train at Clapham Junction to take a slow tube to Waterloo....where that fast train was going anyway. Perhaps for the services going to- Quite. The only reason clapham junction is busy is because its a junction, its not because anyone actually wants to visit that godforsaken dump. They just change trains there. What would be the point of a tube line going there? B2003 1) To relieve the pressure on Waterloo and Victoria at peak times. 2) To facilitate easier travel between the City and destinations served via Clapham Junction. 3) To make it easier for people to visit the exceptionally good shops there, including Debenhams, Waitrose, Jamie Oliver's Recipease, two branches of Marks & Spencer, Moss Bros, and Waterstones. 4) To enable people to visit Northcote Road, Lavender Hill and St. John's Hill to enjoy excellent bars and restaurants, traditional butchers, bakeries and specialist delicatessens, antique shops and markets, jewellers and organic stores. If Boltar thinks that represents a 'godforsaken dump' I feel sorry for him. Ian |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
"Ian F." wrote:
3) To make it easier for people to visit the exceptionally good shops there, including Debenhams, Waitrose, Jamie Oliver's Recipease You have to be joking. You cannot legitimately include "exceptionally good" and "Jamie Oliver's" in the same sentence. |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:42:17 -0000
"Ian F." wrote: 3) To make it easier for people to visit the exceptionally good shops there, including Debenhams, Waitrose, Jamie Oliver's Recipease, two branches of Marks & Spencer, Moss Bros, and Waterstones. 4) To enable people to visit Northcote Road, Lavender Hill and St. John's Hill to enjoy excellent bars and restaurants, traditional butchers, bakeries and specialist delicatessens, antique shops and markets, jewellers and organic stores. BFD. Camden town has all that sort of stuff and thats a festering hole as well. If Boltar thinks that represents a 'godforsaken dump' I feel sorry for him. Anywhere in that south london area is a dump. I know people who live there thinks its wonderful but thats because they never venture anywhere decent. B2003 |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
wrote in message
... Anywhere in that south london area is a dump. I know people who live there thinks its wonderful but thats because they never venture anywhere decent. Each to their own. I've was born and brought up in Twickenham, lived in Kingston, Hampstead, Finchley, Bounds Green and now in Balham (for the past 25 years) and I know which I prefer. Oh, and I worked in Soho most of my life, except when I was in Chelsea and Los Angeles. So I've been to lots of decent places - and I live in one now! Keep smiling, Boltar, we south Londoners just want to give you a lovely big hugggg! :-)))))))) Ian xx |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
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Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
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Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In uk.transport.london message ,
Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:06:58, Paul Terry posted: In message , Clive writes Sorry but this link just gives me a 404. You need to include the last letter of the link, which was line- wrapped. Here it is again, hopefully unwrapped this time: http://northernlineextension.com/med...s_lr_pages.pdf If you enclose any link which may wrap in and , then good news/mail- reading agents, not only such as yours but also inferior ones, will recognise the wrapped URL as a unit. -- (c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Turnpike 6.05 WinXP. Web http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQ-type topics, acronyms, and links. Command-prompt MiniTrue is useful for viewing/searching/altering files. Free, DOS/Win/UNIX now 2.0.6; see URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/pc-links.htm. |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
In article , (Mike
Bristow) wrote: In article , wrote: So Boltar is a North London chauvinist on top of everything else! Given that the aproximate boundry of London is the NCR and the Thames, I'd say he was a London chauvinist... I mean, Clapham is in Surrey, not London... Bah! Humbug! -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
... I mean, Clapham is in Surrey, not London... And, of course, Clapham Junction is in Battersea, not Clapham! Ian |
Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
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Boost for Tube extension plan as Wandsworth gets triple-A ratings
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:39:43 -0000
"Ian F." wrote: Each to their own. I've was born and brought up in Twickenham, lived in Kingston, Hampstead, Finchley, Bounds Green and now in Balham (for the past 25 years) and I know which I prefer. Perhaps you can no longer afford to move so you're trying to convince yourself that Balham is lovely. B2003 |
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