On 28/12/2011 00:05, SB wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=metal%20thefts

====

Scrap metal raids: Police seize tonnes of rail cable

The British Transport Police (BTP) regards metal theft second only to
terrorism in its list of priorities

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16307310

Police have seized 14 tonnes of suspected stolen railway cable and
made 45 arrests after searching around 160 scrap metal yards in a
single day.

The Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) said the haul followed
visits to 400 scrap metal recyclers in England and Wales on 14
December.

The day of action aimed to tackle the "growing" crime of metal theft,
thought to cost the economy £700m a year.

Scotland Yard is launching a dedicated unit to target the thieves.

The Waste and Metal Theft Taskforce is based in Bexley, south-east
London, one of the boroughs most severely affected because of the high
number of scrap metal yards.

'Unscrupulous'

Meanwhile, a newly formed cross-ministerial group has also met several
times to discuss the problem.

It is clear that a law dating back to the 1960s is not sufficient to
deal with an increasingly organised crime”

Acpo said police across Britain had joined forces with a number of
agencies to hit back at thieves and "unscrupulous" scrap dealers.

"Metal theft is a huge, cross-industry, problem which is not only
having a massive impact on the economy, but also communities across
the nation, said deputy Ch Con Paul Crowther.

"The day of action was designed to drive home the message that metal
theft will not be tolerated and that all agencies will work together
to tackle the issue."

Other bodies involved in combating the problem include the Environment
Agency, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, BT and Network Rail.

British Transport Police said it considers cable theft second only to
terrorism in its list of priorities.

Home Office minister Lord Henley said: "It is clear that a law dating
back to the 1960s is not sufficient to deal with an increasingly
organised crime.

"That is why we are looking at a range of legislative options,
including ending payments in cash for scrap metal."

Some 275 separate searches of scrap metal yards in the first two weeks
of December led to 15 arrests and the seizure of 16 vehicles.

Acpo said dedicated days of action would continue throughout 2012.


I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage & endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

In message , at 16:36:42 on
Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Bevan Price remarked:
I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage

Perhaps. Or why not simply Criminal Damage?

& endangering safety of rail passengers", rather than theft, with
severe minimum penalties specified by law, such that some namby-pamby
do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of sentence. Dodgy scrap
dealers should also face similarly severe charges & penalties.

That's somewhat in conflict with the idea that signalling systems are
fail-safe.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:45:09 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 16:36:42 on
Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Bevan Price remarked:
I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage

Perhaps. Or why not simply Criminal Damage?

& endangering safety of rail passengers", rather than theft, with
severe minimum penalties specified by law, such that some namby-pamby
do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of sentence. Dodgy scrap
dealers should also face similarly severe charges & penalties.

That's somewhat in conflict with the idea that signalling systems are
fail-safe.

Removing lumps of power cable tends to put signals out, and a row of black
signals isn't especially fail-safe.

Then there's the rather creative method of theft intended to avoid detection
which was employed recently (for obvious reasons I will not go into
details). Suffice to say the use of that method on the wrong cables could
result in a decidely non fail-safe situation.
--
WZR

"WZR" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:45:09 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 16:36:42 on
Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Bevan Price remarked:
I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage

Perhaps. Or why not simply Criminal Damage?

& endangering safety of rail passengers", rather than theft, with
severe minimum penalties specified by law, such that some namby-pamby
do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of sentence. Dodgy scrap
dealers should also face similarly severe charges & penalties.

That's somewhat in conflict with the idea that signalling systems are
fail-safe.

Removing lumps of power cable tends to put signals out, and a row of black
signals isn't especially fail-safe.

Then there's the rather creative method of theft intended to avoid
detection
which was employed recently (for obvious reasons I will not go into
details). Suffice to say the use of that method on the wrong cables could
result in a decidely non fail-safe situation.
--
WZR

Yes that scares me what they are doing now.

Then there's the rather creative method of theft intended to avoid
detection
which was employed recently (for obvious reasons I will not go into
details). Suffice to say the use of that method on the wrong cables could
result in a decidely non fail-safe situation.

Doesn't the absence of a signal indication where expected indicate "Stop" or
the most restricting indication possible?

That alone is fail safe.


--
Merry Christmas
Roger Traviss


Photos of the late HO scale GER: -

http://www.greateasternrailway.com

For more photos not in the above album and kitbashes etc..:-
http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...Great_Eastern/

Roger Traviss wrote:

Then there's the rather creative method of theft intended to avoid
detection
which was employed recently (for obvious reasons I will not go into
details). Suffice to say the use of that method on the wrong cables
could result in a decidely non fail-safe situation.

Doesn't the absence of a signal indication where expected indicate "Stop"
or the most restricting indication possible?

That alone is fail safe.



In the dark, in the fog on a bend with lots of lines???

--
Tim Watts

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Roger Traviss wrote:

Then there's the rather creative method of theft intended to avoid
detection
which was employed recently (for obvious reasons I will not go into
details). Suffice to say the use of that method on the wrong cables
could result in a decidely non fail-safe situation.

Doesn't the absence of a signal indication where expected indicate "Stop"
or the most restricting indication possible?

That alone is fail safe.



In the dark, in the fog on a bend with lots of lines???

This is what can happen when a signal is unlit
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/doc...ssocks1978.pdf

The train which followed the collided train also passed the unlit signal,
but stopped short of the collision.

Peter

On Dec 28, 4:36*pm, Bevan Price wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage & endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

As another poster said, the real beef is with the guidlines and the
dickhead who makes them.

George

On Dec 28, 5:01*pm, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36*pm, Bevan Price wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage & endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. *Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. *When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

As another poster said, the real beef is with the guidlines and the
dickhead who makes them.

George

That would be the maximum with several aggrevating factors, e.g. being
the ringleader, violence or threats of violence. Discounts are applied
for mitigating factors such as age, early guilty plea, genuine
remorse, helpfulness to the police etc.

Part of the sentence is usually paroled for good behaviour.

I'm generally in favour of this approach

Patrick

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.


George


I think that plain "theft" is not severe enough. Something like wilful
sabotage deserves a lot more than 7 years to punish offenders and deter
others. More like 20 years minimum would be my suggestion.

(And before anyone suggests you get less for murder, I think murderers
should get 100 years without remission. )

Bevan