Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

One surprise in the 2012 fare revision is that the Piccadilly line
joins the Heathrow Free Travel Area.

See http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/20689....athrow-airport

"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message
, at
18:40:27 on Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
One surprise in the 2012 fare revision is that the Piccadilly line
joins the Heathrow Free Travel Area.

See http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/20689....athrow-airport

"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards? Maybe they should
install vending machines in the baggage reclaim areas.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
, at
18:40:27 on Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
One surprise in the 2012 fare revision is that the Piccadilly line
joins the Heathrow Free Travel Area.

See
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/20689....athrow-airport

"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards? Maybe they should
install vending machines in the baggage reclaim areas.
--
Roland Perry

Are you sure that's a real issue?

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 10:55:55 on
Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Graham Harrison
remarked:
"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards? Maybe they should
install vending machines in the baggage reclaim areas.

Are you sure that's a real issue?

I don't think many of the travellers changing flights will bother to
queue up and get an Oyster card once they've reached the tube station.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:55:55 on Thu,
29 Dec 2011, Graham Harrison
remarked:
"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards? Maybe they should
install vending machines in the baggage reclaim areas.

Are you sure that's a real issue?

I don't think many of the travellers changing flights will bother to queue
up and get an Oyster card once they've reached the tube station.

but why will the majority changing flight go land side in the first place

tim

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , Roland Perry
writes

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of
Heathrow.

--
Paul Terry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 11:28:48 on Thu, 29 Dec
2011, tim...... remarked:
"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards? Maybe they
should install vending machines in the baggage reclaim areas.

Are you sure that's a real issue?

I don't think many of the travellers changing flights will bother to
queue up and get an Oyster card once they've reached the tube station.

but why will the majority changing flight go land side in the first place

Why offer the free landside transfer if there's no demand for it?

(I did a landside transfer in 2010, because I arrived long haul and was
departing short haul to Europe, on un-associated airlines, and with
several hours to kill).
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 11:31:42 on Thu, 29
Dec 2011, Paul Terry remarked:

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of
Heathrow.

They don't need a free transfer, because their ticket will have been
valid to/from the appropriate terminal anyway[1]. So the travellers this
is aimed at will be landside transit ones, who typically aren't
Londoners [1](bis).

[1] Give or take edge cases like Londoners doing a transfer at Heathrow
without leaving the airport vicinity).
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:55:55
on Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Graham Harrison
remarked:
"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards? Maybe they should
install vending machines in the baggage reclaim areas.

Are you sure that's a real issue?

I don't think many of the travellers changing flights will bother
to queue up and get an Oyster card once they've reached the tube
station.

but why will the majority changing flight go land side in the first place

How else do they change terminal?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In article ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

In message , Roland Perry
writes

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of Heathrow.

They will be the least likely to change from one terminal site to another,
surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

wrote in message

In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:55:55
on Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Graham Harrison
remarked:
"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow
Terminal 4 and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster
card and Oyster photocard holders"

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards? Maybe they
should install vending machines in the baggage reclaim areas.

Are you sure that's a real issue?

I don't think many of the travellers changing flights will bother
to queue up and get an Oyster card once they've reached the tube
station.

but why will the majority changing flight go land side in the first
place

How else do they change terminal?

Airside, using the free bus service/

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

wrote in message

In article ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

In message , Roland Perry
writes

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of
Heathrow.

They will be the least likely to change from one terminal site to
another, surely?

Suppose someone arrives by bus to the central terminal area, but has a
flight leaving from T5 or T1. They can use HEx and HCon, but the Tube is
more frequent, and the central Tube station is closer to the bus
station.

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 06:33:27
on Thu, 29 Dec 2011, remarked:
but why will the majority changing flight go land side in the first place

How else do they change terminal?

By taking the airside transfer buses and using the infamous "Connections
Centre" to be re-screened.

Much fun for all the family at this stupidly long url:

http://www.heathrowairport.com/heath...-guide/flight-
connections/connection-guides/international-arrival/international-
departure

Where (eg) T4-T5 is timed at 105 minutes. No wonder some people think
going landside will be quicker.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote in message
...
One surprise in the 2012 fare revision is that the Piccadilly line
joins the Heathrow Free Travel Area.

See
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/20689....athrow-airport

"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

OK, let's go back to square 1.

The majority of people transferring between flights at Heathrow will do so
airside. This means they won't go anywhere near any transport in the
Heathrow Free Travel Area. For those who do come landside the HeX/HC
trains are the prferred (by the airport authority) route. Yes, I know, the
underground is more frequent blah blah but by the time you've got hold of an
Oyster, used it for one inter terminal trip and then tried to get your
refund because you're not coming back to London how long is that going to
take?

In any case, I would suggest that the whole point of the free travel area
isn't aimed at passengers or even meeters and greeters but actually at
airport/airline staff.

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 13:49:00 on
Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Paul Corfield remarked:
And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of
Heathrow.

And the thousands and thousands of staff who work in and around
Heathrow.

Why are the staff taking trains from one terminal to another? If their
job requires moving around the airport I'd expect the employer to
provide an [airside] alternative.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:49:00 on
Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Paul Corfield remarked:
And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of
Heathrow.

And the thousands and thousands of staff who work in and around
Heathrow.

Why are the staff taking trains from one terminal to another? If their job
requires moving around the airport I'd expect the employer to provide an
[airside] alternative.
--
Roland Perry

Not everyone has an airside pass. In fact, these days, they try and
restrict the number.

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message ,
writes

They will be the least likely to change from one terminal site to another,
surely?

Not necessarily. People flying from T5 often get dropped off by car at
one of the other terminals to save the long haul out around the M25.
Then there are those who arrive by bus or coach who need to get from the
central bus station to their terminal. Then there's the people who know
how cheap long-stay parking is at T5 (less than 2 quid a day), but who
then need to get to a different terminal. Then, as Paul C points out,
there's the large number of Heathrow staff.
--
Paul Terry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 14:38:19 on
Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Graham Harrison
remarked:
And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of
Heathrow.

And the thousands and thousands of staff who work in and around
Heathrow.

Why are the staff taking trains from one terminal to another? If
their job requires moving around the airport I'd expect the employer
to provide an [airside] alternative.

Not everyone has an airside pass. In fact, these days, they try and
restrict the number.

So this is landside staff who have jobs in multiple terminals. Seems
like a small subset, being that far away from anything airside (and most
airlines only have check-in staff in one terminal).
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 13:57:00 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
Why are the staff taking trains from one terminal to another? If
their
job requires moving around the airport I'd expect the employer to
provide an [airside] alternative.

Plenty of staff don't work airside. And they might arrive on a bus
to the central bus station and need to make a connection.

Not everyone going to/from LHR uses HEx or a taxi. I've always
thought the free travel zone was aimed at that.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:38:19 on Thu,
29 Dec 2011, Graham Harrison
remarked:
And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of
Heathrow.

And the thousands and thousands of staff who work in and around
Heathrow.

Why are the staff taking trains from one terminal to another? If their
job requires moving around the airport I'd expect the employer to
provide an [airside] alternative.

Not everyone has an airside pass. In fact, these days, they try and
restrict the number.

So this is landside staff who have jobs in multiple terminals. Seems like
a small subset, being that far away from anything airside (and most
airlines only have check-in staff in one terminal).
--
Roland Perry

Not everyone works for an airline. Furthermore, some airlines use handling
agents whose staff work in multiple terminals. Then add in cargo staff who
may need to move from the Cargo terminal. Commuting staff getting from car
parks to places of work. There's a surprising amount of landside movement
among people who work at the airport.

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

Paul Terry wrote:
Not necessarily. People flying from T5 often get dropped off by car
at
one of the other terminals to save the long haul out around the M25.


On the other hand, people who are familiar with Heathrow will use the
Perimeter Road to access T5, neatly avoiding the M25.

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 16:01:17 on
Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Graham Harrison
remarked:
So this is landside staff who have jobs in multiple terminals. Seems
like a small subset, being that far away from anything airside (and
most airlines only have check-in staff in one terminal).

Not everyone works for an airline.

Sure; there's all the landside shops and their supply chain. But are
they hopping around on the tube during working hours?

Furthermore, some airlines use handling agents whose staff work in
multiple terminals.

Those are the ones I expect the employers to lay on special transport
for.

Then add in cargo staff who may need to move from the Cargo terminal.
Commuting staff getting from car parks to places of work.

On the tube? Hatton Cross isn't in the free area.

--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at
15:28:28 on Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Neil Williams
remarked:
Why are the staff taking trains from one terminal to another? If
their
job requires moving around the airport I'd expect the employer to
provide an [airside] alternative.

Plenty of staff don't work airside. And they might arrive on a bus to
the central bus station and need to make a connection.

If it's their regular place of work wouldn't they get a bus direct to
the appropriate terminal?

Not everyone going to/from LHR uses HEx or a taxi. I've always thought
the free travel zone was aimed at that.

The ones who arrive by car at the wrong terminal need accommodating,
there's no denying that.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

On the tube? Hatton Cross isn't in the free area.

--
Roland Perry

No, although travel via it will be for tube journeys from T123 to T4.

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

on Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
On the tube? Hatton Cross isn't in the free area.

No, although travel via it will be for tube journeys from T123 to T4.

And very indirect. But the remark was aimed at potential free-travelling
airport employees, many of whose workplaces are actually near Hatton
Cross rather than the passenger terminals.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

On 29/12/2011 10:55, Graham Harrison wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
, at
18:40:27 on Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
One surprise in the 2012 fare revision is that the Piccadilly line
joins the Heathrow Free Travel Area.

See
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/20689....athrow-airport


"Journeys solely between Heathrow Terminals 123, Heathrow Terminal 4
and Heathrow Terminal 5 will be free for all Oyster card and Oyster
photocard holders"

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards? Maybe they should
install vending machines in the baggage reclaim areas.
--
I thought that there was one just as you exit the baggage reclaim area.

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

On 29/12/2011 12:42, Recliner wrote:
wrote in message

In ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

In , Roland Perry
writes

And how many airline passengers have Oyster cards?

Quite a few I would imagine, given the number of people living in
Greater London who have them and who might well be flying out of
Heathrow.

They will be the least likely to change from one terminal site to
another, surely?

Suppose someone arrives by bus to the central terminal area, but has a
flight leaving from T5 or T1. They can use HEx and HCon, but the Tube is
more frequent, and the central Tube station is closer to the bus
station.


Since the Free Travel applies to busses and the HEx or HCon, is there
any prospect of free travel between T4, T1,3 & T5 on the Underground?

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 17:39:48 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
If it's their regular place of work wouldn't they get a bus direct
to
the appropriate terminal?

There isn't necessarily one. Many don't serve T4 these days.

The ones who arrive by car at the wrong terminal need
accommodating,
there's no denying that.

And those who take buses that only serve the central bus station.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

On 29/12/2011 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:

The ones who arrive by car at the wrong terminal need accommodating,
there's no denying that.

A few years ago I was driving to Heathrow to pick up my wife who was
arriving at T1 (I think) but heard on the traffic news that the whole of
the T123 area was grid-locked (which turned out to be true).
Fortunately I heard this just before entering the tunnel (which was also
jammed solid), so was just able divert via the perimeter road to T4. I
phoned my wife (who had by then landed) to tell her to take the Heathrow
Express to T4, as I knew that the HEX went there and was free, but the
tube might have been faster.

But a question: to get from T123 to T4 you have to change at Hatton
Cross don't you, as all trains go clockwise around the route. I presume
that's allowed free on the new Oyster-card arrangement?

--
Clive Page

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 22:15:12 on Thu, 29 Dec
2011, Clive Page remarked:
But a question: to get from T123 to T4 you have to change at Hatton
Cross don't you, as all trains go clockwise around the route. I
presume that's allowed free on the new Oyster-card arrangement?

It says "journeys between", without ruling that out as a route, indeed
it's the only route.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 06:33:27
on Thu, 29 Dec 2011, remarked:
but why will the majority changing flight go land side in the first
place

How else do they change terminal?

By taking the airside transfer buses and using the infamous "Connections
Centre" to be re-screened.

Much fun for all the family at this stupidly long url:

http://www.heathrowairport.com/heath...-guide/flight-
connections/connection-guides/international-arrival/international-
departure

Where (eg) T4-T5 is timed at 105 minutes. No wonder some people think
going landside will be quicker.

But that includes 30-45 minutes for queuing up for security/waiting in the
far lounge

You'd have to allow this time if you went on the tube.

The actual transfer time, including waiting for the bus is going to be 30
minutes or less. I doubt that you will better this going land-side and back

tim

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message ,
writes

They will be the least likely to change from one terminal site to another,
surely?

Not necessarily. People flying from T5 often get dropped off by car at one
of the other terminals to save the long haul out around the M25. Then
there are those who arrive by bus or coach who need to get from the
central bus station to their terminal. Then there's the people who know
how cheap long-stay parking is at T5 (less than 2 quid a day), but who
then need to get to a different terminal. Then, as Paul C points out,
there's the large number of Heathrow staff.

And then there are the people who arrive on the "Woking/Reading" bus that
doesn't serve T4 anymore (unless they have changed it *again*)

tim

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 10:28:54 on Fri, 30 Dec
2011, tim.... remarked:
but why will the majority changing flight go land side in the first
place

How else do they change terminal?

By taking the airside transfer buses and using the infamous "Connections
Centre" to be re-screened.

Much fun for all the family at this stupidly long url:

http://www.heathrowairport.com/heath...-guide/flight-
connections/connection-guides/international-arrival/international-
departure

Where (eg) T4-T5 is timed at 105 minutes. No wonder some people think
going landside will be quicker.

But that includes 30-45 minutes for queuing up for security/waiting in the
far lounge

You'd have to allow this time if you went on the tube.

The actual transfer time, including waiting for the bus is going to be 30
minutes or less. I doubt that you will better this going land-side and back

As I've tried this, perhaps you'll allow me to disagree? I even had a
"race" with a colleague from T4 to T1, he went airside and I went
landside (on HEx) and won.

Part of the problem is the accessibility of the airside bus, which at T4
goes from the very SW corner of the terminal whereas the immigration/
customs exit is in the middle of the building. If you land at one of the
gates at the NE of the building the bus is about 20 minutes walk away.

Although the geography's slightly different, I also lost a "race" at
Charles de Gaulle between landing long haul and getting to the Air
France departure lounge for the hop to the UK. I went airside on the
bus, and they went landside on foot.

--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:37:27 +0000, "
wrote:
Since the Free Travel applies to busses and the HEx or HCon, is
there
any prospect of free travel between T4, T1,3 & T5 on the
Underground?

Yes (next year). That is the subject of this thread!

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , tim....
writes

And then there are the people who arrive on the "Woking/Reading" bus that
doesn't serve T4 anymore

That's also true of a number of coach services, including the popular
Oxford/Heathrow Express.

--
Paul Terry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 13:51:23 on Fri, 30
Dec 2011, Paul Terry remarked:

And then there are the people who arrive on the "Woking/Reading" bus that
doesn't serve T4 anymore

That's also true of a number of coach services, including the popular
Oxford/Heathrow Express.

It's a shame that getting to T1-T4 is a terrible trip on the tube, but
better on the way back.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message

In message , at 22:15:12 on Thu, 29
Dec 2011, Clive Page remarked:
But a question: to get from T123 to T4 you have to change at Hatton
Cross don't you, as all trains go clockwise around the route. I
presume that's allowed free on the new Oyster-card arrangement?

It says "journeys between", without ruling that out as a route, indeed
it's the only route.

And although indirect, it's an easy cross-platform interchange at Hatton
X.

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

How long as the Heathrow Free Travel Area existed for busses?

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

In message , at 13:04:13 on Sat,
31 Dec 2011, " remarked:
How long as the Heathrow Free Travel Area existed for busses?

The "Heathrow Freeflow" project started studying the idea in 1995, but
information is very thin on the ground about when the buses actually
began running.

This site has pictures of buses it says were acquired in 1995 for
Freeflow, but that may be a mistake based on the project start date,
given the lack of other material to confirm it:
http://www.countrybus.org/Dart/DEL.htm

Otherwise, the oldest references I can find anywhere (including news,
baa etc sites) is on usenet (uk.railway) in Sept 2004, and on a site
which says it was last updated in November 2003:

http://www.notrog.plus.com/busroutes...owfreezone.htm

and a reference elsewhere to hotel free shuttles being scrapped in ~2003
as a result of the Hotel Hoppa part of the Freeflow scheme.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Free Travel Area
 

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:10:23 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
and a reference elsewhere to hotel free shuttles being scrapped in
~2003
as a result of the Hotel Hoppa part of the Freeflow scheme.

I thought that was longer ago - I have a distinct memory of going
outward on a trip on a free shuttle, and using the Hotel Hoppa on the
way back, and this was far earlier - 1996?

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK