On 05/01/2012 11:57, Lüko Willms wrote:
Am 04.01.2012 14:33, schrieb Graeme Wall:

Lüko, you are aware that 1984 was fiction?

Sure, one of the best novels of the past century. Strongly based on the
coming reality.

Of Soviet Russia.


Orwell knew what he was writing about.


Which is more than you do.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Am 04.01.2012 22:41, schrieb Wolfgang Schwanke:

My memory is like a colander, but I use Google as a surrogate. Where I
find complaints by West German officials from the 1985/87 time frame
about East Germany letting immigrants to West Germany enter through its
airport.

OK, so you found it at acknowledged the truth of it. Right?

But none that ask for tougher control at border crossings at
the inner German border.

I do not have those old newspapers any more. But I followed the whole
campaign for the closure of the last hole in the wall very closely, and
it was engraved in my memory as something very significant.

Unfortunately I am currently not able to go to the DNB to look up the
old newspapers.

They were asking East Germany to reject certain would-be
immigrants at the airport, as was practice at West German airports.

Even those people who had a valid visa for the GDR?

I don't know what visa they had if any, it's not mentioned in the press
articles.

They had the right to transit the GDR, condeded by the GDR. If this
was stamped in their passports or not is quite irrelevant in my view.

Don't you see
this offence of Bonn trying to dictate to another sovereign state that
they should violate their own laws?

No. There's no dictation anywhere in sight. How would they have gone
about it?

Political pressure, and there might also have been financial
pressures. You will remember the West German credit of 1000 millions DM
to the GDR brokered by Franz-Josef Strauß. GDR was also dependent to a
certain extent on the FRG for their exports, as their factories worked
as "verlängerte Werkbank" (extended work bench) for West German industry.

In the fall of 1987, the GDR finally gave in to the pressure and did
what Westberlin and Bonn demanded of them: they closed the last hole in
the Berlin Wall.

No, the Bonn government was consistent in this.
What you appear to be saying is that West Germany demanded freedom of
movement for East Germans (which they did) but rejected it for foreign
asylum seekers coming in through East Germany. If that's not what you're
claiming I don't know what your point is. I'll refute it after you made
clear what it is you're actually claiming.

But then they should not complain that people travel from GDR to
Westberlin.

They didn't.

You are lying again. Read the papers of 1987.
I did. I don't find any such complaints. I do find complaints about
asylum seekers not being rejected by East Germany.

If they would have wanted to change that, they would have
to install immigration checks on_their_ side of the border.

They never did.

The very first correct statement from you! Incredible!
All my statements are correct. The trick is not to write about things
you're ignorant about. You should try it, it works wonders.

But if they did not want to implement immigration controls, then
they
had lost all right to protest against the immigration of people they
did not want.
According to what reasoning? It seems fair demand to me.

Instead they asked the GDR government to close the Berlin Wall
completly, and not let anybody cross the border unchecked.

No they did not.

Am 04.01.2012 21:25, schrieb Arthur Figgis:
There are still some (narrow gauge) lines with regular steam traction,
but those lines are not owned by DB.

Mostly tourist lines, like the one on the Brocken, or at the Baltic sea
cost.

The one on the outskirts of Dresden was less touristy when I did it at
the tail end of DB days (2003, I think).

Yes, I had heard of that line. I think it is even included in the
regional "Verkehrsverbund".



Cheers,
L.W.

Am 04.01.2012 21:14, schrieb The Real Doctor:
What about the Holocaust, Lüko? Did it happen? Did it matter?

If you don't know, go to a good bookshop and pick up some books to read.

Or did you insinuate again some of your usual slanders?

On Jan 5, 11:57*am, Lüko Willms wrote:

* *Orwell knew what he was writing about.

Yes. He wrote about a society in which people were prepared to betray
their friends to the secret police in exchange for trivial rewards.
And then he betrayed his friends to the secret police in exchange for
trivial rewards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_list

On 05/01/12 12:09, Lüko Willms wrote:
Am 04.01.2012 21:14, schrieb The Real Doctor:
What about the Holocaust, Lüko? Did it happen? Did it matter?

If you don't know, go to a good bookshop and pick up some books to read.

Still not answering the questions, eh?

Or did you insinuate again some of your usual slanders?

Good heavens above no.

Ian

On 05/01/12 11:57, Lüko Willms wrote:
Sure, one of the best novels of the past century. Strongly based on the
coming reality.

On the past reality of Soviet imperialism in central and eastern Europe,
actually.

Ian

On 05/01/12 12:10, ian batten wrote:
And then he betrayed his friends to the secret police in exchange for
trivial rewards.

I see a new documentary has come out about people induced to betray
their friends to the secret police in exchange for trivial rewards. In
this case it was schoolchildren, bribed with free beer and cigarettes on
their parents, classmates and teachers.

Can you guess in what workers' paradise this contemptible behaviour took
place? I'll give you a clue: the film (like the book on which it is
based) is called "Stasi auf dem Schulhof"

Ian

Am 04.01.2012 19:04, schrieb Ross:
11 August 1918. For the full text of the telegram, seehttp://goo.gl/XOzhq
orhttp://goo.gl/lTyYP. The full text is, if anything, worse.

Give correct URLs, please.

Those URLs work. Why demand full URLs rather than use the working
short versions provided?

I want to know what I am calling on my screen before. Ich mag keine
Katze im Sack kaufen (sorry, don't know a fitting translation).

"It is necessary — secretly and urgently to prepare the terror. And on
Tuesday we will decide whether it will be through SNK or otherwise."

30 August 1918. See The Mitrokhin Archive: The KGB in Europe and the
West (1999) Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin, p. 34.

Secondary source. Do you not have something more reliable?

As above. Despite your protests (snipped), you're still only making
yourself look unwilling to accept that anything you disagree with
could possibly be true.

No, I want to know for sure, not some propaganda item. The history
knows a lot about masses of propaganda lies, quotes out of context, etc.
I am not interested to serve as a sparring partner for your slandering
propaganda.

Just look at all the slanders spread by the various Ians and others
in this thread. Claims sucked up from their fingers.



L.W.

Am 04.01.2012 21:12, schrieb The Real Doctor:
And still Lüko declines to state his position on the Holocaust.

Look at the subject line.