Neil Williams schrieb:


It's just DB AG, no?

100% owned by DB.



As for tendering, that's a good way to make it cost more.

Please name a single tender in Germany (of many dozen) with that effect.



Hans-Joachim



--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

On 29 Dec 2011 18:19:41 GMT, Hans-Joachim Zierke
wrote:
Please name a single tender in Germany (of many dozen) with that
effect.

I don't know specifics - but in principle a profit layer is added,
staff are cut or service is cut.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Neil Williams schrieb:


Please name a single tender in Germany (of many dozen) with that
effect.

I don't know specifics -

Most of the results get published, 2/3 of the former subsidy is a common
result.


but in principle a profit layer is added,

??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the
15 - 20% range. The profit margin of competitors is considerably lower.
(As soon as the services get tendered, DB offers with a lower margin,
too.)

staff are cut or service is cut.

The lower subsidies have been used for a /considerable/ addition of
train kilometers in Germany.


Hans-Joachim



--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:

Neil Williams schrieb:


Please name a single tender in Germany (of many dozen) with that
effect.

I don't know specifics -

Most of the results get published, 2/3 of the former subsidy is a common
result.

This is valid for the first tendering of a specific line or network, but
unfortunately cannot be redone additionally at the second/third/ ...
tender.

but in principle a profit layer is added,

??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the
15 - 20% range. The profit margin of competitors is considerably lower.
(As soon as the services get tendered, DB offers with a lower margin,
too.)

staff are cut or service is cut.

The lower subsidies have been used for a /considerable/ addition of
train kilometers in Germany.

What increased passengers figures significantly within the last 15
years.


Oliver Schnell

Oliver Schnell schrieb:


Most of the results get published, 2/3 of the former subsidy is a common
result.

This is valid for the first tendering of a specific line or network, but
unfortunately cannot be redone additionally at the second/third/ ...
tender.


Sure.

Everything else would be too good to be true, won't it? ;-)

But there still are plenty of inflated contracts, and at the second
tender, there still might be a few percent to gain.



Hans-Joachim




--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

Am 29.12.2011 22:43, schrieb Hans-Joachim Zierke:
but in principle a profit layer is added,
??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the
15 - 20% range. The profit margin of competitors is considerably lower.
(As soon as the services get tendered, DB offers with a lower margin,
too.)

Not the profit margin is lower, but the wages are lower and the
working conditions are worse. That is the purpose of the tendering and
privatisation: to drive worker's wages down.

DB and DB's competitors all explain it clear and loud: without
driving down wages, the competition does not work. Wages are the only
real differential.


Cheers,
L.W.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 21:43:29 +0000 (UTC), Hans-Joachim Zierke
wrote:
??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in
the
15 - 20% range.

And where does that go? The Government?

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Neil Williams schrieb:


??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in
the
15 - 20% range.

And where does that go? The Government?



No.
Take your guess: How's DB able, to go shopping in Britain?


As a passenger, I'm interested in more trains, not in DB buying Arriva
etc.



Hans-Joachim


--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:

Neil Williams schrieb:


??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in
the
15 - 20% range.

And where does that go? The Government?



No.
Take your guess: How's DB able, to go shopping in Britain?

One should add: The Government decided to receive an annual return
due to its 100% share in DB of 500 mill. Euro.


As a passenger, I'm interested in more trains, not in DB buying Arriva
etc.

In the very end such investments *should* show (that does not necessarily
mean, that there actually will be) a reasonable interest. So
irrespective if the capital needed is from profits of subsidised
traffic or other sources, a reasonable ROI has to apply.

BTW: You could be also interested in lower fares, more comfort, more ...


Oliver Schnell

Oliver Schnell schrieb:


In the very end such investments *should* show (that does not necessarily
mean, that there actually will be) a reasonable interest. So
irrespective if the capital needed is from profits of subsidised
traffic or other sources, a reasonable ROI has to apply.

Please name /any/ foreign investment of DB, which shows a decent ROI.



BTW: You could be also interested in lower fares, more comfort, more ...

Sure, but "more trains" is what we really got, paid by the saved
subsidies, so that's realistic.

We didn't get lower fares or more comfort.



Hans-Joachim


--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg