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#1
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
Neil Williams schrieb: Please name a single tender in Germany (of many dozen) with that effect. I don't know specifics - Most of the results get published, 2/3 of the former subsidy is a common result. but in principle a profit layer is added, ??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the 15 - 20% range. The profit margin of competitors is considerably lower. (As soon as the services get tendered, DB offers with a lower margin, too.) staff are cut or service is cut. The lower subsidies have been used for a /considerable/ addition of train kilometers in Germany. Hans-Joachim -- Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011 http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg |
#2
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it? happen here...??
Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Neil Williams schrieb: Please name a single tender in Germany (of many dozen) with that effect. I don't know specifics - Most of the results get published, 2/3 of the former subsidy is a common result. This is valid for the first tendering of a specific line or network, but unfortunately cannot be redone additionally at the second/third/ ... tender. but in principle a profit layer is added, ??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the 15 - 20% range. The profit margin of competitors is considerably lower. (As soon as the services get tendered, DB offers with a lower margin, too.) staff are cut or service is cut. The lower subsidies have been used for a /considerable/ addition of train kilometers in Germany. What increased passengers figures significantly within the last 15 years. Oliver Schnell |
#3
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
Oliver Schnell schrieb: Most of the results get published, 2/3 of the former subsidy is a common result. This is valid for the first tendering of a specific line or network, but unfortunately cannot be redone additionally at the second/third/ ... tender. Sure. Everything else would be too good to be true, won't it? ;-) But there still are plenty of inflated contracts, and at the second tender, there still might be a few percent to gain. Hans-Joachim -- Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011 http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg |
#4
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
Am 29.12.2011 22:43, schrieb Hans-Joachim Zierke:
but in principle a profit layer is added, ??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the 15 - 20% range. The profit margin of competitors is considerably lower. (As soon as the services get tendered, DB offers with a lower margin, too.) Not the profit margin is lower, but the wages are lower and the working conditions are worse. That is the purpose of the tendering and privatisation: to drive worker's wages down. DB and DB's competitors all explain it clear and loud: without driving down wages, the competition does not work. Wages are the only real differential. Cheers, L.W. |
#5
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?
happen here...??
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 21:43:29 +0000 (UTC), Hans-Joachim Zierke
wrote: ??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the 15 - 20% range. And where does that go? The Government? Neil -- Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK |
#6
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it??happen here...??
Neil Williams schrieb: ??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the 15 - 20% range. And where does that go? The Government? No. Take your guess: How's DB able, to go shopping in Britain? As a passenger, I'm interested in more trains, not in DB buying Arriva etc. Hans-Joachim -- Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011 http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg |
#7
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?? happen here...??
Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Neil Williams schrieb: ??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in the 15 - 20% range. And where does that go? The Government? No. Take your guess: How's DB able, to go shopping in Britain? One should add: The Government decided to receive an annual return due to its 100% share in DB of 500 mill. Euro. As a passenger, I'm interested in more trains, not in DB buying Arriva etc. In the very end such investments *should* show (that does not necessarily mean, that there actually will be) a reasonable interest. So irrespective if the capital needed is from profits of subsidised traffic or other sources, a reasonable ROI has to apply. BTW: You could be also interested in lower fares, more comfort, more ... Oliver Schnell |
#8
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it??happen here...??
Oliver Schnell schrieb: In the very end such investments *should* show (that does not necessarily mean, that there actually will be) a reasonable interest. So irrespective if the capital needed is from profits of subsidised traffic or other sources, a reasonable ROI has to apply. Please name /any/ foreign investment of DB, which shows a decent ROI. BTW: You could be also interested in lower fares, more comfort, more ... Sure, but "more trains" is what we really got, paid by the saved subsidies, so that's realistic. We didn't get lower fares or more comfort. Hans-Joachim -- Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011 http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg |
#9
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it??happen here...??
Am 30.12.2011 19:48, schrieb Hans-Joachim Zierke:
Oliver Schnell schrieb: In the very end such investments *should* show (that does not necessarily mean, that there actually will be) a reasonable interest. So irrespective if the capital needed is from profits of subsidised traffic or other sources, a reasonable ROI has to apply. Please name /any/ foreign investment of DB, which shows a decent ROI. I have no idea, but this is irrelevant, concerning where the money comes from. BTW: You could be also interested in lower fares, more comfort, more ... Sure, but "more trains" is what we really got, paid by the saved subsidies, so that's realistic. We didn't get lower fares or more comfort. Wochenendticket and Ländertickets meanwhile exist for quite a while and rotten Silberlinge are out of service or revamped (for the few remaining). Oliver Schnell |
#10
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it??happen here...??
Oliver Schnell schrieb: Please name /any/ foreign investment of DB, which shows a decent ROI. I have no idea, but this is irrelevant, concerning where the money comes from. I think the highest profit margin is achieved in Brandenburg, where all the traffic went to DB Regio without bidding, and a short while later, DB gave a nice advisor job to the former transport minister of Brandenburg, in charge during that decisionmaking. So the money comes from you, the taxpayer, paid into a corruption scheme, then used to fulfill manager's dreams of a transport empire. I'm not against managers trying to build a transport empire, but please, with legitimate means, asking investors for the money, instead of purging it from the taxpayers in the grey zone of "as long as we aren't prosecuted and go into prison, our ways are fine". We didn't get lower fares or more comfort. Wochenendticket and Ländertickets meanwhile exist for quite a while ....and might lower the costs for 10% of ones journeys. This doesn't balance the fare rises. Without doubt, they have done a useful job of filling empty trains, though, and admittedly, they really bring down travel costs for the retired. and rotten Silberlinge are out of service or revamped (for the few remaining). While they have been replaced by better stock at some places, examples would be Eurobahn FLIRTs or the FLIRTs of DB in Rostock service, there are also several hundred 425, which are considerably worse than a rotten Silberling. So I don't see progress at the bottom line. Hans-Joachim -- Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011 http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg |
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