Am 30.12.2011 07:09, schrieb Lüko Willms:
Herr Schnell wants to "purge" ALL railway workers in Berlin (at least
those working for the S-Bahn), making them unemployed (which means in
today's Germany to fall quickly into 'Hartz4'). Some of them might be
re-employed, says Herr Schnell, after a new selective process of
recruitment, even for those who have decades of experience in operating
the S-Bahn network.


I forgot to mention that, according to Herr Schnells plan, the
workers would be allowed to reapply for their job (at much worse
conditions) only at a completely new company which would not have the
old collective contracts with the trade union and the works council on
the books, so that the workers would be initially stripped of all their
acquisitions which they got over the past decades and which could not be
destroyed by the takeover of the GDR by the separate West state.


Cheers,
L.W.

"Lüko Willms" wrote in message
...
Am 30.12.2011 07:09, schrieb Lüko Willms:
Herr Schnell wants to "purge" ALL railway workers in Berlin (at least
those working for the S-Bahn), making them unemployed (which means in
today's Germany to fall quickly into 'Hartz4'). Some of them might be
re-employed, says Herr Schnell, after a new selective process of
recruitment, even for those who have decades of experience in operating
the S-Bahn network.


I forgot to mention that, according to Herr Schnells plan, the workers
would be allowed to reapply for their job (at much worse conditions) only
at a completely new company which would not have the old collective
contracts with the trade union and the works council on the books, so that
the workers would be initially stripped of all their acquisitions which
they got over the past decades and which could not be destroyed by the
takeover of the GDR by the separate West state.

The workers need a good lawyer who understands the German equivalent of TUPE
(Transfer of Undertakings - Protection of Employment) Regulations, and the
European Directive on which it is based. Or perhaps Herr Schnell has a
cunning plan to get Germany to withdraw from the European Union. ;-)

Peter

Peter

Am 30.12.2011 18:14, schrieb Peter Masson:
I forgot to mention that, according to Herr Schnells plan, the
workers would be allowed to reapply for their job (at much worse
conditions) only at a completely new company which would not have the
old collective contracts with the trade union and the works council on
the books, so that the workers would be initially stripped of all
their acquisitions which they got over the past decades and which
could not be destroyed by the takeover of the GDR by the separate West
state.

The workers need a good lawyer who understands the German equivalent of
TUPE (Transfer of Undertakings - Protection of Employment) Regulations,
and the European Directive on which it is based.

That is what is happening in the Thatcherized Britain, but not in
Germany.

Tendering of transit (rail, tram or bus) operations in Germany does
exclude the taking over of the operation as it is, i.e. just the
exchange of the leading personnel, the stationary and the train
liveries, but the establishment of a completely new operation with their
own "new" workers, vehicles etc.


Cheers,
L.W.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 18:55:17 +0100, Lüko
wrote:
That is what is happening in the Thatcherized Britain, but not
in
Germany.

TUPE is not Thatcherite, quite the opposite.

Is there no German equivalent?

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Am 30.12.2011 19:08, schrieb Neil Williams:
That is what is happening in the Thatcherized Britain, but not
in
Germany.

TUPE is not Thatcherite, quite the opposite.

I know, having the franchise changes in the railways is one thing her
politics could not smash.

Is there no German equivalent?

Yes, the issue is called "Betriebsübergang", and BGB (Civil code)
paragraph 613a describes the rights of workers under such a change. The
english translation of BGB gives "Rights and duties in the case of
transfer of business" as the title of that section:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#p2428

But the German rulers have conceived the tendering of transit
operations more to the way you would chose your paperhanger or
construction company or the janitor or office cleaning company: you call
another service provider who brings his own personnel and tools and
machinery. In the case of railway operations, bringing their own
engineers, locomotives and other rolling stock, guards, etc etc. (There
are some exceptions, where the Land or the designated public transit
authority is the owner of the rolling stock, in order to "facilite
competition").

To the difference of the British rail privatization, this does very
well allow to drive wages down.

I guess the German capitalist politicians have also thought of this
when they decided their way of railway privatisation: maintaining the DB
AG as a "national champion" who could become an international "player"
(today effectively the 200 pound gorilla in the European transport
market), while introducing a tendering system which allows upstarts to
win market share from the "incumbent" mainly by paying lower wages, and
by this token putting pressure on the wages at DB and other (former)
public transport companies.

A number of municipal transit companies (e.g. the Frankfurt/Main one,
the one of Berlin, and others) have set up a low wage bus company where
bus drivers are paid 30% less than the ones employed directly according
to the old public sector collective bargaining contracts. To add insult
to injury, in most cases Social-Democrats and trade union burocrats have
voted for such moves, in order to "save the public company" which would
otherwise lose out completely to the private competitors from Veolia etc
with their lower wage bus drivers.



Cheers,
L.W.

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 18:55:17 +0100, Lüko
wrote:
That is what is happening in the Thatcherized Britain, but not in
Germany.

TUPE is not Thatcherite, quite the opposite.

Is there no German equivalent?

There must be - it's an EU-based provision.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Neil Williams schrieb:


TUPE is not Thatcherite, quite the opposite.

Is there no German equivalent?


As soon as we talk transfer of companies: Sure there is.

But this is not relevant to the discussion.


These rules protect you as an employee, if your bakery is taken over by
another bakery. They do nothing for you, if your bakery looses the
contract with the local hotel, which decides to buy the bread from a
bakery in the neighbour village.



Hans-Joachim



--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

Am 31.12.2011 11:28, schrieb Hans-Joachim Zierke:

TUPE

or German "Betriebsübergang"

this is not relevant to the discussion.


These rules protect you as an employee, if your bakery is taken over by
another bakery. They do nothing for you, if your bakery looses the
contract with the local hotel, which decides to buy the bread from a
bakery in the neighbour village.

You are again writing nonsense.

Of course it is relevant. The operation of traffic on a given network
can be done only by one operator.

To use your example: your local hotel orders their old baker to
evacuate his premises and to hand them over to a new contractor.

Sure, the German capitalists have done their utmost to drive down
wages, and fools like to support them in this. Poor slave adoring the
whip of his master coming down...


L.W.

On 31/12/11 10:42, Lüko Willms wrote:
Sure, the German capitalists have done their utmost to drive down wages,
and fools like to support them in this.

Just remind us, will you, what the GDP per head was in (a) the DDR and
(b) the BRD immediately before reunification?

Ian

Peter Masson schrieb:


The workers need a good lawyer who understands the German equivalent of TUPE
(Transfer of Undertakings - Protection of Employment) Regulations, and the
European Directive on which it is based.


Please name the "German equivalent of TUPE".


Practically, DB will not fire anybody, if they loose parts of the S-Bahn,
or all of it. People will get redistributed within the company, former
S-Bahn drivers might run RE or RB. Those, who want to rehire at a
different company now running the S-Bahn, will do so.

Due to a quick recovery from the crisis, almost all TOCs in Germany are
short on drivers, so the situation for drivers is quite good.


Hans-Joachim




--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg