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#1
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
On 31/12/11 10:42, Lüko Willms wrote:
Sure, the German capitalists have done their utmost to drive down wages, and fools like to support them in this. Just remind us, will you, what the GDP per head was in (a) the DDR and (b) the BRD immediately before reunification? Ian |
#2
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
On Dec 31, 11:05*am, The Real Doctor
wrote: On 31/12/11 10:42, Lüko Willms wrote: Sure, the German capitalists have done their utmost to drive down wages, and fools like to support them in this. Just remind us, will you, what the GDP per head was in (a) the DDR and (b) the BRD immediately before reunification? A man who believes that Stalin didn't kill anyone and the DDR was a workers' paradise is hardly likely to let facts trouble him. Luko: why did people flee the DDR, even at risk to their lives, in such numbers that the DDR needed armed guards to keep them in? If it was as good as you say, why would people have been so keen to leave it? And why didn't you live there while it existed? ian |
#3
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
Am 31.12.2011 12:09, schrieb ian batten:
A man who believes that Stalin didn't kill anyone and the DDR was a workers' paradise is hardly likely to let facts trouble him. Luko: why did people flee the DDR, even at risk to their lives, in such numbers that the DDR needed armed guards to keep them in? Although I'm not Lügo, it is believed that it was just capitalistic propaganda spread out through West German TV and - bananas: http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archiv...L_1089244s.jpg (Front cover of a West German magazine in November 1989) Some more propaganda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4RMwEYrOE8 (There is also the full movie available at youtube) SCNR Oliver Schnell |
#4
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it? happen here...??
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:25:36 +0100, Oliver Schnell
wrote: Am 31.12.2011 12:09, schrieb ian batten: A man who believes that Stalin didn't kill anyone and the DDR was a workers' paradise is hardly likely to let facts trouble him. Luko: why did people flee the DDR, even at risk to their lives, in such numbers that the DDR needed armed guards to keep them in? Although I'm not Lügo, it is believed that it was just capitalistic propaganda spread out through West German TV and - bananas: http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archiv...L_1089244s.jpg (Front cover of a West German magazine in November 1989) That is possibly true to some extent in the same way that people often travel thousands of miles legally or illegally to find to their disappointment that e.g. the streets of London tend to be paved with sh1t rather than gold and that some (note- only some) of the locals are nastier than those they have left behind. snip |
#5
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
Am 31.12.2011 12:09, schrieb ian batten:
Luko: why did people flee the DDR, even at risk to their lives, in such numbers that the DDR needed armed guards to keep them in? If it was as good as you say, why would people have been so keen to leave it? And why didn't you live there while it existed? This is completely irrelevant to the issue we are discussing he the wishes which Herr Schnell voiced in this thread (and in many variations in other forums and in his native tongue). I also can't understand which you are bringing up the stalinist bloody destruction of the Russian communist party and his murder of revolutionaries. Herr Schnell does not propose to shoot or otherwise kill the Berlin railway workers, he only wants to make them unemployed, push them down in misery, so that they do no longer put up any resistance to the capitalist exploitation, obeying to the whip and bowing to a further driving down their wages and working conditions. Herr Schnell detests that other people actually do not give up easily their conquests which they had acquired over the past six decades or so. He likes to point to the difference between workers in, say Hamburg or Munich, who have lived all their lives under capitalism and those pesky railway workers in Berlin who have not, and wants to subjugate those into submission. L.W. |
#6
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
On 31/12/11 12:54, Lüko Willms wrote:
He likes to point to the difference between workers in, say Hamburg or Munich, who have lived all their lives under capitalism and those pesky railway workers in Berlin who have not, and wants to subjugate those into submission. Why did your comrades in (Ost)Berlin feel it necessary to kill railway workers there who wanted to work in Hamburg, while the authorities in Hamburg did not take similar action against railway workers who wished to move eastwards? I think this is very relevant to your claim that DR workers had a better deal than DB workers. Ian |
#7
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
Am 02.01.2012 01:10, schrieb The Real Doctor:
On 31/12/11 12:54, Lüko Willms wrote: He likes to point to the difference between workers in, say Hamburg or Munich, who have lived all their lives under capitalism and those pesky railway workers in Berlin who have not, and wants to subjugate those into submission. fantasizing again with tales not related to the issue in discussion: Why did your comrades in (Ost)Berlin feel it necessary to kill railway workers there who wanted to work in Hamburg, while the authorities in Hamburg did not take similar action against railway workers who wished to move eastwards? back to topic: I think this is very relevant to your claim that DR workers had a better deal than DB workers. Ask Herr Schnell. He is at least as reactionay as you are. He wants that the Berlin railway workers be brought completely under the capitalist whip, being humiliated, being thrown into misery, so that they forget once and for all those conquests which they had won over the past four decades before the GDR had been taken over by the German capitalist class. The difference which you prefer to ignore (because of your abysmal hatred of facts) is that the GDR has not been conquered by NATO tanks crossing the border, but by a popular uprising. And those people rising up against their regime was to get _better_ conditions, not _worse._ Unfortunately most had a bad awakening when they suffered the de-industrialisation of the ex-GDR organized by the West German commissioners. But rail in Berlin was not something to be dismantled -- so different conditions. Railway workers in Berlin had more clout to defend themselves than, say, shipyard workers in Rostock, or machinery builders in Magdeburg. But why should I bother you with facts which you want to ignore at all cost! L.W. |
#8
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it? happen here...??
"Lüko Willms" wrote in message
Ask Herr Schnell. He is at least as reactionay as you are. He wants that the Berlin railway workers be brought completely under the capitalist whip, being humiliated, being thrown into misery, so that they forget once and for all those conquests which they had won over the past four decades before the GDR had been taken over by the German capitalist class. Presumably they are desperate to get rid of those awful VWs, Audis, BMWs and Mercedes vehicles and return to the fabulous Trabants they were so pleased to drive in the past? |
#9
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
Am 02.01.2012 13:16, schrieb Recliner:
Presumably they are desperate to get rid of those awful VWs, Audis, BMWs and Mercedes vehicles and return to the fabulous Trabants they were so pleased to drive in the past? Well, why should you bother with facts, when you have your preconceived ideas? Go back to your daily five-minute hate on the Televisor. |
#10
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Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
On 02/01/12 11:52, Lüko Willms wrote:
The difference which you prefer to ignore (because of your abysmal hatred of facts) is that the GDR has not been conquered by NATO tanks crossing the border Invasion by tank are almost always a Bad Thing. Ask the people of Hungary and Czechoslovakia as was. but by a popular uprising. And those people rising up against their regime was to get _better_ conditions, not _worse._ They wanted West German conditions. They got 'em. Fewer creches, fewer bullets in the back for attempting to emigrate. Ian |
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