Am 31.12.2011 12:09, schrieb ian batten:
Luko: why did people flee the DDR, even at risk to their lives, in
such numbers that the DDR needed armed guards to keep them in? If it
was as good as you say, why would people have been so keen to leave
it? And why didn't you live there while it existed?

This is completely irrelevant to the issue we are discussing he
the wishes which Herr Schnell voiced in this thread (and in many
variations in other forums and in his native tongue).

I also can't understand which you are bringing up the stalinist
bloody destruction of the Russian communist party and his murder of
revolutionaries. Herr Schnell does not propose to shoot or otherwise
kill the Berlin railway workers, he only wants to make them unemployed,
push them down in misery, so that they do no longer put up any
resistance to the capitalist exploitation, obeying to the whip and
bowing to a further driving down their wages and working conditions.

Herr Schnell detests that other people actually do not give up easily
their conquests which they had acquired over the past six decades or so.
He likes to point to the difference between workers in, say Hamburg or
Munich, who have lived all their lives under capitalism and those pesky
railway workers in Berlin who have not, and wants to subjugate those
into submission.



L.W.

On 31/12/11 12:54, Lüko Willms wrote:
He likes to point to the difference between workers in, say Hamburg or
Munich, who have lived all their lives under capitalism and those pesky
railway workers in Berlin who have not, and wants to subjugate those
into submission.

Why did your comrades in (Ost)Berlin feel it necessary to kill railway
workers there who wanted to work in Hamburg, while the authorities in
Hamburg did not take similar action against railway workers who wished
to move eastwards?

I think this is very relevant to your claim that DR workers had a better
deal than DB workers.

Ian

Am 02.01.2012 01:10, schrieb The Real Doctor:
On 31/12/11 12:54, Lüko Willms wrote:
He likes to point to the difference between workers in, say Hamburg or
Munich, who have lived all their lives under capitalism and those pesky
railway workers in Berlin who have not, and wants to subjugate those
into submission.

fantasizing again with tales not related to the issue in discussion:

Why did your comrades in (Ost)Berlin feel it necessary to kill railway
workers there who wanted to work in Hamburg, while the authorities in
Hamburg did not take similar action against railway workers who wished
to move eastwards?

back to topic:

I think this is very relevant to your claim that DR workers had a better
deal than DB workers.

Ask Herr Schnell. He is at least as reactionay as you are. He wants
that the Berlin railway workers be brought completely under the
capitalist whip, being humiliated, being thrown into misery, so that
they forget once and for all those conquests which they had won over the
past four decades before the GDR had been taken over by the German
capitalist class.

The difference which you prefer to ignore (because of your abysmal
hatred of facts) is that the GDR has not been conquered by NATO tanks
crossing the border, but by a popular uprising. And those people rising
up against their regime was to get _better_ conditions, not _worse._
Unfortunately most had a bad awakening when they suffered the
de-industrialisation of the ex-GDR organized by the West German
commissioners. But rail in Berlin was not something to be dismantled --
so different conditions. Railway workers in Berlin had more clout to
defend themselves than, say, shipyard workers in Rostock, or machinery
builders in Magdeburg.

But why should I bother you with facts which you want to ignore at
all cost!


L.W.

"Lüko Willms" wrote in message


Ask Herr Schnell. He is at least as reactionay as you are. He wants
that the Berlin railway workers be brought completely under the
capitalist whip, being humiliated, being thrown into misery, so that
they forget once and for all those conquests which they had won over
the past four decades before the GDR had been taken over by the German
capitalist class.

Presumably they are desperate to get rid of those awful VWs, Audis, BMWs
and Mercedes vehicles and return to the fabulous Trabants they were so
pleased to drive in the past?

Am 02.01.2012 13:16, schrieb Recliner:
Presumably they are desperate to get rid of those awful VWs, Audis, BMWs
and Mercedes vehicles and return to the fabulous Trabants they were so
pleased to drive in the past?

Well, why should you bother with facts, when you have your
preconceived ideas?

Go back to your daily five-minute hate on the Televisor.

On 02/01/12 11:52, Lüko Willms wrote:
The difference which you prefer to ignore (because of your abysmal
hatred of facts) is that the GDR has not been conquered by NATO tanks
crossing the border

Invasion by tank are almost always a Bad Thing. Ask the people of
Hungary and Czechoslovakia as was.

but by a popular uprising. And those people rising
up against their regime was to get _better_ conditions, not _worse._

They wanted West German conditions. They got 'em. Fewer creches, fewer
bullets in the back for attempting to emigrate.

Ian

Am 02.01.2012 19:35, schrieb The Real Doctor:
They wanted West German conditions. They got 'em.

Why don't you consider the plans advanced by Herr Schnell to smash
the Berlin railway workers because they work "the last socialistic
company" in Germany? Obviously your cothinker does not thing that the
Berlin railway workers did get all West German conditions. He thinks
that they have too much of what he calls "socialistic" conditions and
wants to take them away so that the Berlin S-Bahn can be operated as a
real profit producting capitalistic company, which according to your
cothinker requires to take away from those workers conquests they had
gotten in GDR times?

Look into those facts, and do not always try to avoid the subject of
our discussion like the plague!

The Real Doctor schrieb:


They wanted West German conditions. They got 'em.


Let's stay with historical correctness: Those, who really took to the
streets, didn't want West German conditions.

Instead, they were sitting together discussing, what they wanted, and
were eliminated from the decisionmaking process along the way.



Hans-Joachim




--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

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