CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
 

On Jan 20, 5:24*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

Oyster was originally going to be able to be used for other low value
purchases, such as newspapers and cups of coffee, in the way that Octopus is
used in Hong Kong, but this idea fell foul of banking regulation.

In the US, there is a credit card feature called "Blink" (Chase Bank)
where one just touches the card against the reader and the charge is
instantly posted. This is faster than cash or conventional credit
cards. Some big chains accept this, like McDonald's, CVS drugstores,
and the Wawa convenience store chain.

It would be great if small establishments could use it for quickie
purchases like a cup of coffee, but I don't know the transaction and
equipment costs.

I patronize a small independently owned deli and he does not accept
credit cards at all, cash only, due to the expense of the cards. The
transaction fees aren't cheap, plus the cost of the card reader.

(Anyone still see those old charge plate stamper machines and carbon
paper slips? I haven't seen one of those in ages.)

e-zpass, CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
 

On Jan 20, 5:25*pm, John Levine wrote:
I also tend to believe that toll booths will *be dismantled and that
cars will be able to travel at normal speeds on a motorway while readers
mounted on a frame over it will simply read the transponders.

I saw that once on the New Jersey Turnpike.

Garden State Parkway, actually.

NJ Tpk has them, too in some spots. So does the PA Tpk. I think the
AC Expy is getting them.

Stating prices at retail inclusive of taxes
 

On 23-Jan-12 12:34, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
On 23-Jan-12 11:26, Neil Williams wrote:
On Jan 23, 6:00 pm, "Paul Rigg" wrote:
Different sales tax rates apply to different goods in my state.

Not a reason not to include them in the price. My point was that if
customer X enters the shop, then customer Y enters the shop, and both
buy the same thing, both would be charged the same for it?

Not in the US, unfortunately. There are various buyers that do not have
to pay sales taxes, either at all or for certain uses. So, even
customers who buy the same things in the same place may not pay the same
tax.

That really doesn't affect a lot of buyers:

In my state, units of government and schools (not non-school educational
organizations) and churches and charities are exempt from sales and
use taxes.

.... which means every merchant must be capable of handling tax-exempt
sales in case such a buyer shows up. It also encourages posting pretax
prices rather than post-tax prices.

It's not an exemption as there's no VAT in the United States, but sometimes
goods for resale are purchased at retail stores and not from wholesalers
or distributors or from the manufacturer. The reseller does not pay sales
tax to the retail store as it's not a retail transaction.

And that's just plain broken.

First of all, this distinction between "retailers" and "wholesalers" is
merely an artifact of our stupid sales tax system. The VAT system,
where all sales are taxed and there is a credit for tax already paid
when a product is resald, is much simpler because all sales would work
the same way. Anyone could then buy from any merchant, and discounts
would be based on volume rather than tax status.

It would also eliminate an entire class of tax fraud.

The more logical solution would be for everyone to pay the tax and for
exempt buyers to get a credit/refund. That would also seem to be less
susceptible to fraud while greatly simplifying things for merchants.

That's a load of crap. You want the merchant to handle monies that have
to be refunded, eventually, claiming it's simpler.

Yes, it's simpler for the merchant. They calculate a fixed percentage
of their total revenue and forward it to the tax collector. That's it.

I was a cashier as a kid. We had electronic cash registers many years
ago. With the push of a button, there was a way to ring up a non-tax sale.
The cash register would report aggragate non-tax sales, which would be
entered into the books. No, not collecting the un-owed tax didn't impose
an additional burden because there's already bookkeeping associated with
inventory and sales and tax collection.

It meant their accountants had to track whether each sale was taxed or
not, which is obviously more work than _not_ doing so.

The buyer or reseller would then have to save his receipts; that's a
burden.

They have to save their receipts anyways for income tax purposes, so
there is no _new_ burden.

He'd have to file a form with the state for rebate; that's a burden.

True, but they likely have to file many forms with the state anyway, so
it doesn't seem like a significant one.

The state would have to process forms from a great many non-taxpayers who
aren't currently filing forms. That's a burden.

Doesn't your state require them to file forms today to get the
documentation proving they _don't_ need to pay taxes today? Or are
merchants supposed to magically know who does and doesn't need to pay?
What is the fraud rate of such a system?

So, this is really switching from filing/processing one form to
filing/processing a different form with exactly the same information
except the addition of the amount to be refunded and an account to
deposit it in.

The state would have to issue the rebates. That's a burden.

An insignificant one; it's just a direct deposit into the account listed
on the form, and states already do millions of those per month.

In the meantime, the non-taxpayer is without money he never owed to
the state in the first place. That's a huge burden, especially if you're
talking about a cash-poor charity.

Yes, the reduction in liquidity is a problem. However, the problem is
mainly the transition rather than the steady state.

You don't know what you're talking about.

You're making mountains out of molehills.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
 

On Jan 20, 5:32*pm, John Levine wrote:

The main question is NJ Transit. *They already cooperate with the MTA
on the west of Hudson Metro-North trains, which are extensions of NJ
commuter lines, but they don't do joint fares with PATH even though it
would make a lot of sense for the many commuters who transfer between
the two at Hoboken and Newark.

It would help greatly if NJ Transit ticket offices sold some sort of
Metrocard, even say the pre-packaged kind that news dealers sell.
Buying a Metrocard upon arrival at Pennsylvania Station is a pain due
to the crowds.

In the old days, some RR ticket agents also sold the morning newspaper
and coffee, and maybe a few snacks. That was a source of extra
revenue and a convenience to passengers. Some larger stations have
outside venders who do that (eg Princeton Jct), but more should do so.

When PATCO opened it required its newstand concessionaire to sell ten-
trip tickets. However, some years ago the newstands were all closed
(don't know why). But PATCO's new generation of ticket machines sells
more kinds of farecards now, plus the ticket can be used for their
parking gates, too.

CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
 

On Jan 20, 7:21*pm, John Levine wrote:

A smartcard would presumably also work on Metro-North and LIRR, which
are also the MTA, with the remaining question being NJ Transit.

The question yet to be answered is how to verify a passenger's length
of journey on distance-based fare commuter rail systems. On regional
rapid transit, they do so by having turnstiles at both entry and exit,
so the exit turnstile verifies the ticket is valid for the distance
travelled.

But on various large commuter rail networks there are no turnstiles.
Adding turnstiles would cost a fortune, not only in their direct cost,
but modifying walkways at all stations to fence off the paid area. At
the downtown terminals there is little space for turnstiles,
especially enough to handle the crowds emerging from a train.
Pennsylvania Station would be especially complex because many tracks
are used by three different railroads (Amk, NJT, LIRR), and there are
various concourses and stairs connecting to the platforms, including
oddball ones.

CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
 

On Jan 21, 7:15*am, "
wrote:

What does SEPTA use on its city transport, by the way?

For SEPTA's buses, streetcars, and subway elevated lines, fares may be
paid in cash ($2, plus $1 for transfer if needed), tokens (sold at a
discount), or weekly or monthly passes which provide for unlimited
riding and deeper discounts.

SEPTA is considering a big jump into high-tech fare collection. See
their web site.

www.septa.org

smart cards, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
 

In the US, there is a credit card feature called "Blink" (Chase Bank)
where one just touches the card against the reader and the charge is
instantly posted.

That's a contactless EMV smartcard. (Google it for more details.) I
dunno why Chase invented their own name for it, since it already has
too many names, such as Mastercard Paypass, Visa Paywave, and AmEx
Expreess Pay. I use it all the time to pay at my local Wegmans
supermarket. The teminal has a generic logo of a series of arcs,
looking like waves radiating from a point.

It would be great if small establishments could use it for quickie
purchases like a cup of coffee, but I don't know the transaction and
equipment costs.

I gather that if you already have a credit card point of sale terminal,
it's a cheap add-on. The hard part may be negotiating the floor limit
below which the customer doesn't have to sign. At Wegmans, it's quite
high, $50.

R's,
John

CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
 

On Jan 21, 3:20*pm, John Levine wrote:

Newark City subway, HB light rail, and River Line are NJ Transit,
They're POP, buy and validate a ticket from a machine on the platform,
or carry a monthly pass.

As an aside, in my riding experience the POP fare inspectors on the
Newark City Subway are nice. The inspectors on the HBLR and R/L
remind me of border guards in those old WW II or Cold War movies:
"Your papers?! These papers are expired! You will hae to come with
us!"

I was fortunate one day when I unknowingly dropped my ticket. Another
passenger told me about it, so I got it up. On that trip we were
inspected. No ticket, big fine, police record. The newspapers
serving the area of the R/L reported on the problems of their POP, but
nothing has changed.

London Congestion Zone charge
 

On Jan 21, 5:39*pm, Stephen Sprunk wrote:

Nope; it's just the regular cash toll rate, plus a $2 fee per paper
bill, same as any other driver would get if they don't have a
transponder. *Transponder users can choose electronic statements, which
are free, in addition to getting a significant (1/3) discount on tolls.

Ok, so we have a toll bridge they want to make all electronic. The
toll now is $1.00, regardless of EZP or cash.

But if they add on a $2 fee for non EZP users (like occassional
drivers who are many), that becomes a huge toll increase--$3 instead
of $1.

Doesn't seem right to do that.

cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
 

On Jan 22, 4:15*am, Roland Perry wrote:

Or get a charge card that gives points. But I'm still not in favour of
generating piles of paper and statement entries for what are in essence
petty cash transactions.

A convenience store chain I patronize encourages use of the electronic
credit card for small transactions. The card gives points, which
comes out to (for me) a free large sandwich every six months.

I have no problem using the card at that store.

At independently owned stores, however, I tend to use my credit card
much less, since I know the store owner is paying dearly for that
credit card. Of course, I may be only hurting myself as it seems most
customers these days pay be credit card, even for small transactions.
For instance, at the local pizza joint, most sales are by card, not
cash.