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Trip report: Stratford
I had some time to spare today, so I thought I'd have a look round
Stratford. Arrived by Overground and took the "Westfield" exit direct into the shopping mall. Which is far bigger than I was expecting. Walked through to the entrance of the Olympic Park, and I can see what people mean by visitors being "channelled" past the shops. Although you can do most of it outdoors if you want. Not far away from the park entrance is the International station, and I enquired if I could use my [outboundary] Travelcard to get back to St Pancras. Apparently not; "This is a premium service Sir". I knew that, but just wanted to hear what they said. So what about a supplement? They said they can only upgrade Travelcards that aren't valid on HS1. By which they mean say "Not HS1" - if it says "Any Permitted" then it's also not valid on HS1, but can't be upgraded. (Everyone following this?) But the ~£5 supplement (if you have one of these "Not HS1" Travelcards which are apparently issued from stations in Kent) is about the same as buying a complete new ticket, and the supplemented Travlecard is only valid for one return trip from Stratford to St Pancras, whereas a genuine "&HS1" (or whatever it's called Travelcard could be used for as many trips as you wanted. On the way out, I went all the way through the crescent-shaped shopping centre again, and this time encountered the bridge over the tracks with the "open air" escalators on the south side. From that side the station is completely transformed from what I knew before, with a low-level atrium for the N-S lines (Overground being W-E and upstairs). Overall, the Olympic Park is much further away from Stratford Station than I was expecting - ten minutes walk perhaps. Nothing like North Greenwich and the Dome. -- Roland Perry |
Trip report: Stratford
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:27:57 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote: They said they can only upgrade Travelcards that aren't valid on HS1. By which they mean say "Not HS1" - if it says "Any Permitted" then it's also not valid on HS1, but can't be upgraded. (Everyone following this?) HS1 is not part of the Zones (same as, say, Heathrow Express), so I think they are confused. The route on a Travelcard refers to use outside the Zones. So what they mean is they can upgrade "not HS1" outboundary Travelcards from that side of things. Neil -- Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK |
Trip report: Stratford
In message , at
20:45:38 on Wed, 22 Feb 2012, Neil Williams remarked: They said they can only upgrade Travelcards that aren't valid on HS1. By which they mean say "Not HS1" - if it says "Any Permitted" then it's also not valid on HS1, but can't be upgraded. (Everyone following this?) HS1 is not part of the Zones (same as, say, Heathrow Express), so I think they are confused. Does that mean there's actually no such thing as an "&HS1" Travelcard? If they'd said HS1 was outside the zones (which now you mention it I probably know) it would have made the conversation much simpler. The route on a Travelcard refers to use outside the Zones. So what they mean is they can upgrade "not HS1" outboundary Travelcards from that side of things. It's not so much an upgrade, as a supplement for one ride on the HS1. Maybe it *is* just the same as buying a new ticket? -- Roland Perry |
Trip report: Stratford
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:52:06 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote: Does that mean there's actually no such thing as an "&HS1" Travelcard? AIUI correct. It's not so much an upgrade, as a supplement for one ride on the HS1. Maybe it *is* just the same as buying a new ticket? I think it may well be. Neil -- Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK |
Trip report: Stratford
On Feb 22, 7:45*pm, Neil Williams wrote: On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:27:57 +0000, Roland Perry wrote: They said they can only upgrade Travelcards that aren't valid on HS1. By which they mean say "Not HS1" - if it says "Any Permitted" then it's also not valid on HS1, but can't be upgraded. (Everyone following this?) HS1 is not part of the Zones (same as, say, Heathrow Express), so I think they are confused. *The route on a Travelcard refers to use outside the Zones. So what they mean is they can upgrade "not HS1" outboundary Travelcards from that side of things. I concur with this analysis. |
Trip report: Stratford
On Feb 22, 8:07*pm, Neil Williams wrote: On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:52:06 +0000, Roland Perry wrote: Does that mean there's actually no such thing as an "&HS1" Travelcard? AIUI correct. In terms of inboundary Travelcards, yes I agree. (For an outboundary Travelcard - from say Ashford or Dover, it'll either be "Route: any permitted" and so valid on HS1, or "Route: Not HS1" but upgradable for travel on HS1 with a supplement. It's not so much an upgrade, as a supplement for one ride on the HS1. Maybe it *is* just the same as buying a new ticket? I think it may well be. Ditto. For Stratford Int'l to St Pancras Int'l... Anytime Single - GBP5.70. Anytime Day Return - GBP9.80 Off Peak Day Return - GBP7.30 There's no way of upgrading an inboundary Travelcard (nor indeed an outboundary Travelcard for a journey that would never go via HS1 even on payment of a supplement, e.g. Reading to London Travelcard, or Cambridge to London Travelcard). Those with an inboundary Travelcard don't get any special benefits or discounts if they want to travel from Stratford to St Pancras (or vice versa) on HS1 - they need to buy a single, day return or season as required. |
Trip report: Stratford
If some LUL services went up the spout. I wonder if "tickets and
travelcards will be valid on HS1 trains"? |
Trip report: Stratford
On Feb 22, 7:27*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
I had some time to spare today, so I thought I'd have a look round Stratford. Arrived by Overground and took the "Westfield" exit direct into the shopping mall. Which is far bigger than I was expecting. Verily, verily I say unto you. Westfield is a nightmare. I felt claustrophobic and had to get out, which took about 5 minutes. And why call it Westfield? Stuck for a name, ay? I would have called it the New East London Home for the Terminally Thick. LOROL!! |
Trip report: Stratford
And why call it Westfield?
Stuck for a name, ay? It's just one of a vast chain of malls from the Westfield group - see http://www.westfield.com/corporate/ The full name of Startford's is "Westfield Stratford City" to distinguish it from all the others. Locally I'm increasingly hearing (and using) "Stratfield". -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
Trip report: Stratford
In message
, at 17:31:38 on Wed, 22 Feb 2012, Mizter T remarked: On Feb 22, 8:07*pm, Neil Williams wrote: On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:52:06 +0000, Roland Perry wrote: Does that mean there's actually no such thing as an "&HS1" Travelcard? AIUI correct. In terms of inboundary Travelcards, yes I agree. (For an outboundary Travelcard - from say Ashford or Dover, it'll either be "Route: any permitted" and so valid on HS1, or "Route: Not HS1" but upgradable for travel on HS1 with a supplement. The chap at the station specifically said that an outboundary Travelcard marked "Any Permitted" was *not* valid on HS1. He looked at that part of mine, and didn't even read where it was issued (because he asked that later). He said that (eg) Ashford ones would have some sort of "&HS1" routing (I forget the exact phrase). It's not so much an upgrade, as a supplement for one ride on the HS1. Maybe it *is* just the same as buying a new ticket? I think it may well be. Ditto. For Stratford Int'l to St Pancras Int'l... Anytime Single - GBP5.70. Anytime Day Return - GBP9.80 Off Peak Day Return - GBP7.30 I have a feeling he quoted £5.30, bicbw. There's no way of upgrading an inboundary Travelcard (nor indeed an outboundary Travelcard for a journey that would never go via HS1 even on payment of a supplement, e.g. Reading to London Travelcard, or Cambridge to London Travelcard). Indeed, but what about a supplement, to add a one-shot HS1 trip? Those with an inboundary Travelcard don't get any special benefits or discounts if they want to travel from Stratford to St Pancras (or vice versa) on HS1 - they need to buy a single, day return or season as required. -- Roland Perry |
Trip report: Stratford
In message
, at 22:28:06 on Wed, 22 Feb 2012, Offramp remarked: And why call it Westfield? Stuck for a name, ay? It's the name of the property company. cf: Arndale (Centre). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westfield_Group http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arndale -- Roland Perry |
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Trip report: Stratford
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 08:12:52 -0000, "Robin" wrote:
And why call it Westfield? Stuck for a name, ay? It's just one of a vast chain of malls from the Westfield group - see http://www.westfield.com/corporate/ The full name of Startford's is "Westfield Stratford City" to distinguish it from all the others. Locally I'm increasingly hearing (and using) "Stratfield". I preferred Eastfield. |
Trip report: Stratford
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:05:53 +0000
Robin9 wrote: Offramp;127790 Wrote: Verily, verily I say unto you. Westfield is a nightmare. I felt claustrophobic and had to get out, which took about 5 minutes. It's not so bad if you go mid-week before about 15.00. After that and all weekend, it's intolerable. I'm surprised you lasted five minutes. It amazes me that some people genuinely go to these places as a day out. B2003 |
Trip report: Stratford
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Trip report: Stratford
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Trip report: Stratford
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:56:36 +0000
Recliner wrote: It amazes me that some people genuinely go to these places as a day out. Indeed -- I seem to remember you predicting last year that it wouldn't draw anyone other than locals. Yup. I guess that'll teach me to overestimate the taste and culture of your average chav. B2003 |
Trip report: Stratford
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:56:36 +0000, Recliner
wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:42:36 +0000 (UTC), d wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:05:53 +0000 Robin9 wrote: Offramp;127790 Wrote: Verily, verily I say unto you. Westfield is a nightmare. I felt claustrophobic and had to get out, which took about 5 minutes. It's not so bad if you go mid-week before about 15.00. After that and all weekend, it's intolerable. I'm surprised you lasted five minutes. It amazes me that some people genuinely go to these places as a day out. Indeed -- I seem to remember you predicting last year that it wouldn't draw anyone other than locals. Given the location, it will probably draw people from as far afield as Chelmsford and Colchester. -- John Ray |
Trip report: Stratford
John Ray wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:56:36 +0000, Recliner wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:42:36 +0000 (UTC), d wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:05:53 +0000 Robin9 wrote: Offramp;127790 Wrote: Verily, verily I say unto you. Westfield is a nightmare. I felt claustrophobic and had to get out, which took about 5 minutes. It's not so bad if you go mid-week before about 15.00. After that and all weekend, it's intolerable. I'm surprised you lasted five minutes. It amazes me that some people genuinely go to these places as a day out. Indeed -- I seem to remember you predicting last year that it wouldn't draw anyone other than locals. Given the location, it will probably draw people from as far afield as Chelmsford and Colchester. How exciting. |
Trip report: Stratford
Neil Williams wrote:
It amazes me that some people genuinely go to these places as a day out. Quite. A combination of Tesco (as far out of hours as feasible) and online shopping is far better. A lot of people like to actually see the items to hand rather just look at pictures and a description. Also online shopping can be a real pain because of the delivery firms, especially if you live in any sort of flat or compound - which is a large number and growing out here, including those without a direct intercom to individual flats at street level. A lot of the courier firms have not put together a proper strategy for how to deliver to such flats beyond turn up at the gate, shrug shoulders, drive off and bill the sender for non-delivery. (By contrast the likes of Pizza Hut have worked out things like taking telephone numbers and issuing their deliverers with phones to contact buyers directly, whilst Royal Mail usually have keys.) Throw in the inability to deliver on the day predicted & taken off work, and you can understand why online shopping ain't great for all. |
Trip report: Stratford
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:23:50 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Also online shopping can be a real pain because of the delivery firms, especially if you live in any sort of flat or compound - which is a large number and growing out here, including those without a direct intercom to individual flats at street level. A lot of the courier firms have not put together a proper strategy for how to deliver to such flats beyond turn up at the gate, shrug shoulders, drive off and bill the sender for non-delivery. (By contrast the likes of Pizza Hut have worked out things like taking telephone numbers and issuing their deliverers with phones to contact buyers directly, whilst Royal Mail usually have keys.) Throw in the inability to deliver on the day predicted & taken off work, and you can understand why online shopping ain't great for all. Here in Norway the parcel is left at the post office and a notice is sent through the mail when the recipient is not at home. -- jhk |
Trip report: Stratford
Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
Also online shopping can be a real pain because of the delivery firms, especially if you live in any sort of flat or compound - which is a large number and growing out here, including those without a direct intercom to individual flats at street level. A lot of the courier firms have not put together a proper strategy for how to deliver to such flats beyond turn up at the gate, shrug shoulders, drive off and bill the sender for non-delivery. (By contrast the likes of Pizza Hut have worked out things like taking telephone numbers and issuing their deliverers with phones to contact buyers directly, whilst Royal Mail usually have keys.) Throw in the inability to deliver on the day predicted & taken off work, and you can understand why online shopping ain't great for all. Here in Norway the parcel is left at the post office and a notice is sent through the mail when the recipient is not at home. We basically have the same here with Royal Mail and Parcelforce (part of the Royal Mail set-up but separate deliveries et al). Royal Mail will put a form through the letterbox and take it to the local sorting office. Parcelforce, if they can't get in the building, will take it to the local (sizeable) Post Office and send a note via the mail. In both cases I like these, not least because I live just round the corner from both the Post Office and sorting office, and both open on Saturday mornings. The problem is with a lot of other courier firms, many of whom have their roots in business deliveries (although one started up as the delivery service for a catalogue mainly aimed at housewives - i.e. buyers most likely to be in during day times, usually in suburbs and towns where the front door is accessible from the street). The root of the trouble is they don't have a home delivery mindset and operate on the basis that someone will always be there to take the parcel, 8am to 7pm Mondays to Fridays. Generally that's fine for office deliveries but for home deliveries: * Predicted delivery times & dates are poorly met, to frustration on the one side that days are taken off work for no reason, on the other for prolonging the delivery round * Some drivers cut corners by just quietly sneaking up to the door and shoving a "sorry you were out" card on the first attempt * Several of the firms don't do Saturday deliveries or open the depots for collection at a home convenient time * The depots themselves are invariably on out of the way industrial estates poorly served by public transport. It's even worse outside the big cities because often the depot is in another town a long way away * The firms don't issue their drivers with equipment that's increasingly standard for other deliverers, particularly mobile phones for contacting the recipient to gain access (and also sat navs for more rural deliveries) * The firms make no effort to develop a proper strategy for delivering to flats without concierges; nor do they ever bother to black list addresses and make the seller go elsewhere * Some firms insist on all items being signed for, even small items that will fit through the letter box It's not *just* the courier firms though - a lot of online sellers fail to give sufficient information about how stuff will be delivered, particularly which delivery firm will be used, and sometimes don't meet their promise (very frustrating if you specifically choose them because you were under the impression they use Royal Mail and get Yodel). They also often make promises that the couriers can't meet - particularly promising next day deliveries for Saturdays. Plus there are often communication breakdowns between the two, both individually about the delivery information passed on, but also more generally about the expected volume of sales for particular periods (there have been several years when Amazon have got their numbers badly wrong and so the couriers haven't taken & trained enough extra staff). I think the singlest biggest thing the whole delivery industry needs to do is to basically ask the customers, the deliverers and the sellers "Would you prefer delivery as quickly as possible, or would you prefer as accurate a delivery date & time as possible?" Currently the assumption is the former, because business expects as quickly as possible, business usually has all delivery times covered, and the early online home shoppers were the likes of Amazon who were mainly sending parcels that didn't need signing for and fitted through the average letterbox. But I think a lot of people would prefer accurate predictions that allow them to take time off work in the confidence the item will arrive. In one regard the courier mess offers a good opportunity to a lot of chain stores that also sell online. If they offer the option to collect purchases from a chosen branch then they can more foot traffic and income for the branch, whilst from the customer point of view you've got control over where you have to go to collect the goods and it's easier to get to find and reach a high street shop on a Saturday than rushing round the backwaters of an industrial estate at ten to seven on a weekday night. |
Trip report: Stratford
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:25:05 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: Jarle H Knudsen wrote: Here in Norway the parcel is left at the post office and a notice is sent through the mail when the recipient is not at home. We basically have the same here with Royal Mail and Parcelforce (part of the Royal Mail set-up but separate deliveries et al). Royal Mail will put a form through the letterbox and take it to the local sorting office. Parcelforce, if they can't get in the building, will take it to the local (sizeable) Post Office and send a note via the mail. [...] The problem is with a lot of other courier firms [...] The root of the trouble is they don't have a home delivery mindset and operate on the basis that someone will always be there to take the parcel, 8am to 7pm Mondays to Fridays. [...] it's easier to get to find and reach a high street shop on a Saturday than rushing round the backwaters of an industrial estate at ten to seven on a weekday night. I agree with all of that... I paid for (or failed to cancel) Amazon Prime and find it *very* useful but I almost always pick Royal Mail as the delivery method as even though it may take an extra day I know they are more intelligent and flexible at finding a way to deliver the parcel and if they don't it's only a short way away. I have had enough trips to the arse end of Epsom, Merton, Guildford and Heathrow to do anything else. Like many things, I don't think we appreciate what we have before moaning about it... Richard. |
Trip report: Stratford
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 20:45:38 on Wed, 22 Feb 2012, Neil Williams remarked: They said they can only upgrade Travelcards that aren't valid on HS1. By which they mean say "Not HS1" - if it says "Any Permitted" then it's also not valid on HS1, but can't be upgraded. (Everyone following this?) HS1 is not part of the Zones (same as, say, Heathrow Express), so I think they are confused. Does that mean there's actually no such thing as an "&HS1" Travelcard? If they'd said HS1 was outside the zones (which now you mention it I probably know) it would have made the conversation much simpler. The route on a Travelcard refers to use outside the Zones. So what they mean is they can upgrade "not HS1" outboundary Travelcards from that side of things. It's not so much an upgrade, as a supplement for one ride on the HS1. Maybe it *is* just the same as buying a new ticket? It's the supplement for the complete route to Ebbsfleet. As such, it's far cheaper than a new ticket. |
Trip report: Stratford
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 17:31:38 on Wed, 22 Feb 2012, Mizter T remarked: On Feb 22, 8:07 pm, Neil Williams wrote: On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:52:06 +0000, Roland Perry wrote: Does that mean there's actually no such thing as an "&HS1" Travelcard? AIUI correct. In terms of inboundary Travelcards, yes I agree. (For an outboundary Travelcard - from say Ashford or Dover, it'll either be "Route: any permitted" and so valid on HS1, or "Route: Not HS1" but upgradable for travel on HS1 with a supplement. The chap at the station specifically said that an outboundary Travelcard marked "Any Permitted" was *not* valid on HS1. He looked at that part of mine, and didn't even read where it was issued (because he asked that later). He said that (eg) Ashford ones would have some sort of "&HS1" routing (I forget the exact phrase). You were right first time. They say "any permitted" or "Not HS1" where that indication ONLY applies to the "single use" part of the ticket. It is irrelevant to any travelcard element of the ticket, which (as you have been told) is never valid on HS1. Of course, to see whether HS1 is permitted on an Any permitted ticket requires you to look at the routing guide (in the same way that you might if you wanted to know if it is valid to travel e.g. from Manchester into Paddington via Reading - which IIRC used to be valid, but isn't any more). It's not so much an upgrade, as a supplement for one ride on the HS1. Maybe it *is* just the same as buying a new ticket? I think it may well be. Ditto. For Stratford Int'l to St Pancras Int'l... Anytime Single - GBP5.70. Anytime Day Return - GBP9.80 Off Peak Day Return - GBP7.30 I have a feeling he quoted £5.30, bicbw. There's no way of upgrading an inboundary Travelcard (nor indeed an outboundary Travelcard for a journey that would never go via HS1 even on payment of a supplement, e.g. Reading to London Travelcard, or Cambridge to London Travelcard). Indeed, but what about a supplement, to add a one-shot HS1 trip? There isn't one - live with it :-) tim |
Trip report: Stratford
"Jarle H Knudsen" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:23:50 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Also online shopping can be a real pain because of the delivery firms, especially if you live in any sort of flat or compound - which is a large number and growing out here, including those without a direct intercom to individual flats at street level. A lot of the courier firms have not put together a proper strategy for how to deliver to such flats beyond turn up at the gate, shrug shoulders, drive off and bill the sender for non-delivery. (By contrast the likes of Pizza Hut have worked out things like taking telephone numbers and issuing their deliverers with phones to contact buyers directly, whilst Royal Mail usually have keys.) Throw in the inability to deliver on the day predicted & taken off work, and you can understand why online shopping ain't great for all. Here in Norway the parcel is left at the post office and a notice is sent through the mail when the recipient is not at home. We used to have that system here, but because "parcel deliver companies" charge less than the "mail" do for delivering parcels most retailers insist on using the cheaper version even though it's not their money and all they do is re-charge the costs to the punter. So, I save 2 quid on the delivery at the expense of wasting 6 hours of my time - and people think that online shopping is a great idea! tim |
Trip report: Stratford
In message , at 14:59:57 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked: They say "any permitted" or "Not HS1" where that indication ONLY applies to the "single use" part of the ticket. It is irrelevant to any travelcard element of the ticket, which (as you have been told) is never valid on HS1. So if the chap was correct in saying there were "&HS1" Travelcards, you'd have to bail out to the tube/overground/etc at Stratford on the inbound journey (having arrived at Stratford on a Javelin from Kent) Or is there some misunderstanding about the existence of such tickets? -- Roland Perry |
Trip report: Stratford
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 14:59:57 on Sat, 25 Feb 2012, tim.... remarked: They say "any permitted" or "Not HS1" where that indication ONLY applies to the "single use" part of the ticket. It is irrelevant to any travelcard element of the ticket, which (as you have been told) is never valid on HS1. So if the chap was correct in saying there were "&HS1" Travelcards, you'd have to bail out to the tube/overground/etc at Stratford on the inbound journey (having arrived at Stratford on a Javelin from Kent) Or is there some misunderstanding about the existence of such tickets? I don't think he is right in saying that there are some routes with "+HS1" tickets (as in a single main ticket, not an add on) but as I (obviously) haven't checked all the possibilities there might be. But if there is, the same rule would apply that the +HS1 is only applicable to the single through journey to/from Ebbsfleet to London and would be valid to either StP for Stratford for one single journey (per direction of ticket). Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I buy super expensive ticket)? tim |
Trip report: Stratford
In message , at 17:13:22 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked: I don't think he is right in saying that there are some routes with "+HS1" tickets Kent-issued outboundary Travelcards, specifically. (as in a single main ticket, not an add on) but as I (obviously) haven't checked all the possibilities there might be. But if there is, the same rule would apply that the +HS1 is only applicable to the single through journey to/from Ebbsfleet to London and would be valid to either StP for Stratford for one single journey (per direction of ticket). The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid from Stratford to StP. Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I buy super expensive ticket)? If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ. -- Roland Perry |
Trip report: Stratford
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 17:13:22 on Sat, 25 Feb 2012, tim.... remarked: I don't think he is right in saying that there are some routes with "+HS1" tickets Kent-issued outboundary Travelcards, specifically. The "Kent part is clear, and I don't think that it being a TC makes it any different to a through ticket to somewhere North (/West) of London. I'm reasonably sure that all of the obvious Kent origins work as I've described, but their could be some weird ones for which the "any permitted" didn't allow travel via Ashford on the historic line, but which makes sense to use HS1 - Hasting via Rye, may be one. Or Headcorn to London which wasn't available via HS1 (ISTR that if your origin is Pluckley doubling back from Ashford is allowed), until they introduced the Maidstone service. (as in a single main ticket, not an add on) but as I (obviously) haven't checked all the possibilities there might be. But if there is, the same rule would apply that the +HS1 is only applicable to the single through journey to/from Ebbsfleet to London and would be valid to either StP for Stratford for one single journey (per direction of ticket). The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid from Stratford to StP. No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be travelled once. Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I buy super expensive ticket)? If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ. I know, but how do I prove that. tim |
Trip report: Stratford
In message , at 23:22:46 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked: The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid from Stratford to StP. No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be travelled once. If I have a Cambridge outboundary Travelcard, then I can travel back and forth all day between (eg) Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. The "one-shot" part is from Cambridge to Hadley Wood. If it were true that using HS1 from Stratford to St Pancras isn't allowed *at all* on a Travelcard (even a PLUS HIGH SPEED one), there's no reason I can't get off at Stratford and travel back and forth by tube all day. But what may be the case is that the +HS1 Travelcard is valid for a one-off trip to St Pancras, then as a Travelcard (excluding multiple use on HS1), Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I buy super expensive ticket)? If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ. I know, but how do I prove that. You ask to see the Fares Manual at a station, or ask someone to print off the relevant screen from the Avantix CD. BoJ is also allowed on the Travelcard, which gives them an interesting problem at Stratford when you resume your inbound one-off trip on HS1. http://www.perry.co.uk/images/ruleC4.jpg -- Roland Perry |
Trip report: Stratford
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 23:22:46 on Sat, 25 Feb 2012, tim.... remarked: The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid from Stratford to StP. No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be travelled once. If I have a Cambridge outboundary Travelcard, then I can travel back and forth all day between (eg) Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. The "one-shot" part is from Cambridge to Hadley Wood. But that's not HS1. HS1 is specifically excluded from a (normal) ODTC. Finsbury park to KX is NOT If it were true that using HS1 from Stratford to St Pancras isn't allowed *at all* on a Travelcard (even a PLUS HIGH SPEED one), It isn't, except as part of the single through journey (BOJ argument ignored). So once that single through journey is completed, no further HS1 travel is allowed (until you want to go home again). there's no reason I can't get off at Stratford and travel back and forth by tube all day. Which adds what to the discussion? But what may be the case is that the +HS1 Travelcard is valid for a one-off trip to St Pancras, then as a Travelcard (excluding multiple use on HS1), Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I buy super expensive ticket)? If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ. I know, but how do I prove that. You ask to see the Fares Manual at a station, or ask someone to print off the relevant screen from the Avantix CD. I meant, how do I prove that I'm continuing a broken journey and haven't just arrived at Stratford by tube. tim |
Trip report: Stratford
In message , at 10:32:55 on Sun, 26 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked: The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid from Stratford to StP. No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be travelled once. If I have a Cambridge outboundary Travelcard, then I can travel back and forth all day between (eg) Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. The "one-shot" part is from Cambridge to Hadley Wood. But that's not HS1. HS1 is specifically excluded from a (normal) ODTC. Finsbury park to KX is NOT sigh I know that - I'm trying to draw a distinction between the two trips. If it were true that using HS1 from Stratford to St Pancras isn't allowed *at all* on a Travelcard (even a PLUS HIGH SPEED one), It isn't, except Concentrate! *at all* would not have "except"ions. as part of the single through journey (BOJ argument ignored). So once that single through journey is completed, no further HS1 travel is allowed (until you want to go home again). there's no reason I can't get off at Stratford and travel back and forth by tube all day. Which adds what to the discussion? A sense of frustration that having got all the way to Stratford on HS1 (from Ashford or wherever), they are mean spirited enough to say I can't have multiple trips from there to St Pancras. How many people would want to do that, and how much money are they saving by having this silly rule which is at odds with what's printed on the ticket viz: Travelcard PLUS HIGH SPEED. As far as I'm concerned they can continue to ban "Any permitted" and "Not HS1" travelcards, if they really do want to appear to be penny pinching skinflints, which appears to be the case. But what may be the case is that the +HS1 Travelcard is valid for a one-off trip to St Pancras, then as a Travelcard (excluding multiple use on HS1), Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I buy super expensive ticket)? If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ. I know, but how do I prove that. You ask to see the Fares Manual at a station, or ask someone to print off the relevant screen from the Avantix CD. I meant, how do I prove that I'm continuing a broken journey and haven't just arrived at Stratford by tube. The gates may have written evidence of your arrival by HS1 (rather than tube/Overground/DLR/AGA[1]) onto the mag stripe. Otherwise it's for you to assert and them to disprove (easier said than done, I agree). [1] Abellio Greater Anglia. -- Roland Perry |
Trip report: Stratford
|
Trip report: Stratford
In message , at 06:34:44
on Sun, 26 Feb 2012, remarked: [1] Abellio Greater Anglia. Trading as "Greater Anglia". AGA is shorter than AGATAGA :-) But perhaps there's the makings of a nickname there. -- Roland Perry |
Trip report: Stratford
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 10:32:55 on Sun, 26 Feb 2012, tim.... remarked: The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid from Stratford to StP. No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be travelled once. If I have a Cambridge outboundary Travelcard, then I can travel back and forth all day between (eg) Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. The "one-shot" part is from Cambridge to Hadley Wood. But that's not HS1. HS1 is specifically excluded from a (normal) ODTC. Finsbury park to KX is NOT sigh I know that - I'm trying to draw a distinction between the two trips. If it were true that using HS1 from Stratford to St Pancras isn't allowed *at all* on a Travelcard (even a PLUS HIGH SPEED one), It isn't, except Concentrate! *at all* would not have "except"ions. It doesn't (that was just my term). An out boundary travelcard is really two products in one. A ODTC and a return to London. So the ODTC part of the ticket isn't valid on HS1 but the return ticket is. So there isn't really any exceptions, except when someone tries to invoke the same rules on out bounday TC as in-boundary ones (as you seem to be trying) as part of the single through journey (BOJ argument ignored). So once that single through journey is completed, no further HS1 travel is allowed (until you want to go home again). there's no reason I can't get off at Stratford and travel back and forth by tube all day. Which adds what to the discussion? A sense of frustration that having got all the way to Stratford on HS1 (from Ashford or wherever), they are mean spirited enough to say I can't have multiple trips from there to St Pancras. How many people would want to do that, so how many are inconvenienced? and how much money are they saving by having this silly rule Perhaps they see it as a simpler rule. If they said that "Any permitted" out boundary TC were valid for unlimited trips on HS1 you would get people who interpreted that as meaning that one from Guildford was valid. So to avoid having to explain "exactly" what they mean, they just say than none are valid. Few (who would qualify) are going to be inconvenienced tim |
Trip report: Stratford
In message , at 16:09:59 on Sun, 26 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked: An out boundary travelcard is really two products in one. A ODTC and a return to London. That's where you are wrong. It's a return to BZ6 (or a closer BZ if the train service never stops further out), plus an ODTC. So the ODTC part of the ticket isn't valid on HS1 but the return ticket is. This is a "special case" for HS1. So there isn't really any exceptions, except when someone tries to invoke the same rules on out bounday TC as in-boundary ones (as you seem to be trying) These +HS1 Travelcards are the exception. A sense of frustration that having got all the way to Stratford on HS1 (from Ashford or wherever), they are mean spirited enough to say I can't have multiple trips from there to St Pancras. How many people would want to do that, so how many are inconvenienced? Lots of them, if getting your head round the Byzantine rules counts as inconvenience. and how much money are they saving by having this silly rule Perhaps they see it as a simpler rule. It would be if (like Heathrow Express) the train didn't stop within the Zones. Unfortunately Stratford International is in Zone 3. One solution would be to make Stratford International HS1 "outside" the zones, in the same sense that HEx T123 and T5 are outside the zones (but the same named Piccadilly stations are inside). But for some reason they have chosen not to (literally) draw the map like that. If they said that "Any permitted" out boundary TC were valid for unlimited trips on HS1 you would get people who interpreted that as meaning that one from Guildford was valid. I'm not asking for all "Any Permitted" Travelcards to be valid for multiple journeys (although that might be my next request). Only Travelcards marked "+HS1". So to avoid having to explain "exactly" what they mean, they just say than none are valid. And then shoot themselves in the foot by annotating the Travelcard as "+HS1". Few (who would qualify) are going to be inconvenienced I expect most Travelcard users are actually using them for a very limited number of point-to-point journeys. But the Travelcard is sold as an "unlimited rover" within the zones, and they should not start making these special exemptions. -- Roland Perry |
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