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Bloody traffic police at accidents
Some accidents on the M25 and A40 this morning basically gridlocked most of west
london thanks to plod taking their own sweet time to clear up the scene. Does it really warrant closing a major road for 3 bloody hours (and counting) just to take notes of a car crash? Once the casualties have been ferried away , take some photos and push the vehicles onto the side of the road until they can be towed away. What is the bloody problem with plod in this country? Why does even a modest accident have to be a ****ing "crime scene"? Have they really got nothing else better to do with their time? B2003 |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Mar 15, 10:39*am, wrote:
Some accidents on the M25 and A40 this morning basically gridlocked most of west london thanks to plod taking their own sweet time to clear up the scene. Does it really warrant closing a major road for 3 bloody hours (and counting) just to take notes of a car crash? Once the casualties have been ferried away , take some photos and push the vehicles onto the side of the road until they can be towed away. What is the bloody problem with plod in this country? Why does even a modest accident have to be a ****ing "crime scene"? Have they really got nothing else better to do with their time? B2003 100% with you on that one, the eventual likely outcome of a crime scene investigation is prosecution which normally will result in a fine or two and a few D/L points, is that worth the cost of the delays and disruption caused? Any plod like to comment?? |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 04:44:20 -0700 (PDT)
NM wrote: 100% with you on that one, the eventual likely outcome of a crime scene investigation is prosecution which normally will result in a fine or two and a few D/L points, is that worth the cost of the delays and disruption caused? Any plod like to comment?? Quite - a complete waste of time and resources, not to mention all the extra pollution from the stuck traffic and people missing appointments or deliveries. Someone should remind traffic plod occasionally that they're public servants, they don't run the show. B2003 |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Mar 15, 10:39*am, wrote:
Some accidents on the M25 and A40 this morning basically gridlocked most of west london thanks to plod taking their own sweet time to clear up the scene. Does it really warrant closing a major road for 3 bloody hours (and counting) just to take notes of a car crash? Once the casualties have been ferried away , take some photos and push the vehicles onto the side of the road until they can be towed away. What is the bloody problem with plod in this country? Why does even a modest accident have to be a ****ing "crime scene"? Have they really got nothing else better to do with their time? B2003 I absoluely agree. It's because they love playing at Plods and they have all the resources and time in the world. Not one copper is connected to the REAL world where time is money and money not earned is money lost. McK. |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
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Bloody traffic police at accidents
Brendan Behan said:
"There is no situation so bad that the intervention of a policeman can't make worse." Happy St Patrick's Day, Brendan! |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:52:47 +0000
Bill wrote: Looking at it from a different angle. Your loved one is killed in a crash and when it comes to coroners court the police say, we are not sure what the exact reasons were, we have a few photos but no detailed The reasons would be a traffic accident. Accidents happen. End of. measurements and samples because we pushed everything out of the way and What samples? DNA on the road surface? FFS , when vehicles crash its not rocket science to figure out what happened. Or you have a crash and kill someone, you are prosecuted for causing death by, you of course say you did not and that this that and the other happened. But again the police only have a few photos and conflicting witness statements, no hard facts. So you end up in jail. Well with few photos and conflicting evidence there would be no presecution so I wouldn't be worried. It may be an inconvenience to you and others, but it can save a lifetime of doubt and uncertainty, or a life changing criminal record, or not, for those involved. Looking at it another way , the jams could cause other accidents to happen elsewhere, they could cause people to be late for job interviews, hospital appointments, picking their kids up from school, important deliveries or 101 other important tasks that have to be done during a day. One accident does not take precidence over the life of an entire city. The europeans realised this long ago, its about time the police in this country woke up to the fact too. B2003 |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 22:58:43 +0000
"Richard J." wrote: It may be an inconvenience to you and others, but it can save a lifetime of doubt and uncertainty, or a life changing criminal record, or not, for those involved. Good post, Bill, and highly relevant. The A40 Gypsy Corner accident No it wasn't, it was the usual special pleading· this morning involved a lorry and a motorcycle. One man died there. This was not a "modest accident". It was a perfectly ordinary accident. 2000 people die on the roads each year in the UK. We all take risks when we drive and if I ended up dead in an accident I wouldn't expect the half of london to be inconvenienced because of it. They manage to get the tube up and running fairly quickly when someone falls under a train so there's absolutely no reason for a major arterial road to be closed for almost the entire morning just because of a bog standard road accident. B2003 |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
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Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Mar 15, 8:52*pm, Bill wrote:
In message , writes Some accidents on the M25 and A40 this morning basically gridlocked most of west london thanks to plod taking their own sweet time to clear up the scene. Does it really warrant closing a major road for 3 bloody hours (and counting) just to take notes of a car crash? Once the casualties have been ferried away , take some photos and push the vehicles onto the side of the road until they can be towed away. What is the bloody problem with plod in this country? Why does even a modest accident have to be a ****ing "crime scene"? Have they really got nothing else better to do with their time? B2003 Looking at it from a different angle. *Your loved one is killed in a crash and when it comes to coroners court the police say, we are not sure what the exact reasons were, we have a few photos but no detailed measurements and samples because we pushed everything out of the way and destroyed the physical evidence.. *So you never get a definitive answer of what happened. Or you have a crash and kill someone, you are prosecuted for causing death by, you of course say you did not and that this that and the other happened. *But again the police only have a few photos and conflicting witness statements, no hard facts. *So you end up in jail. It may be an inconvenience to you and others, but it can save a lifetime of doubt and uncertainty, or a life changing criminal record, or not, for those involved. -- Bill Then how do other European Police forces manage to clear vehicles away as quickly as possible and get the traffic moving again? The Dutch video the scene, take a bunch of photos and clear the road, I cannot understand why we need to be different, the scenario you quote is hardly typical and does not justify the eleven hours I was once in Tibshelf (sp?). services, the costs of the resulting delays must have run into millions why is this apparently never taken into account? |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Mar 16, 11:33*am, Ian Jackson
wrote: In message , writes On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:52:47 +0000 Bill wrote: Looking at it from a different angle. *Your loved one is killed in a crash and when it comes to coroners court the police say, we are not sure what the exact reasons were, we have a few photos but no detailed The reasons would be a traffic accident. Accidents happen. End of. measurements and samples because we pushed everything out of the way and What samples? DNA on the road surface? FFS , when vehicles crash its not rocket science to figure out what happened. Or you have a crash and kill someone, you are prosecuted for causing death by, you of course say you did not and that this that and the other happened. *But again the police only have a few photos and conflicting witness statements, no hard facts. *So you end up in jail. Well with few photos and conflicting evidence there would be no presecution so I wouldn't be worried. It may be an inconvenience to you and others, but it can save a lifetime of doubt and uncertainty, or a life changing criminal record, or not, for those involved. Looking at it another way , the jams could cause other accidents to happen elsewhere, they could cause people to be late for job interviews, hospital appointments, picking their kids up from school, important deliveries or 101 other important tasks that have to be done during a day. One accident does not take precidence over the life of an entire city. The europeans realised this long ago, its about time the police in this country woke up to the fact too. In order to minimise the need for long road closures, aren't the police supposed to be getting new technology in the form of a laser 3D camera, which will used to rapidly scan the site of road accidents? The images obtained will then be used to produce holographic images of the site, which can then be used for the actual detailed investigation.. -- Ian I can see this apparent good idea further contributing to delays once in the hands of plod. |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
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Bloody traffic police at accidents
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Bloody traffic police at accidents
I seem to recall it being Brendan's brother Domnic who made the Police
Intervention comment.... "I can concieve of no human situation so awful,that could'nt be immediately worsened by the interest of a Gard" (Irish Police) Either way, it's worth raising a glass to the pair of em on the day ? |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
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Bloody traffic police at accidents
In message , Richard J.
writes wrote on 16 March 2012 09:39:48 ... On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 22:58:43 +0000 "Richard wrote: It may be an inconvenience to you and others, but it can save a lifetime of doubt and uncertainty, or a life changing criminal record, or not, for those involved. Good post, Bill, and highly relevant. The A40 Gypsy Corner accident No it wasn't, it was the usual special pleading· this morning involved a lorry and a motorcycle. One man died there. This was not a "modest accident". It was a perfectly ordinary accident. 2000 people die on the roads each year in the UK. We all take risks when we drive and if I ended up dead in an accident I wouldn't expect the half of london to be inconvenienced because of it. They manage to get the tube up and running fairly quickly when someone falls under a train so there's absolutely no reason for a major arterial road to be closed for almost the entire morning just because of a bog standard road accident. Your description of an accident in which someone died (an acquaintance of an acquaintance of mine actually) as a "perfectly ordinary accident" and a "bog standard accident" just shows how callously insensitive you are. Any argument based on those sentiments is not worth debating. Good night. I fully understand your feelings about such situations. However, haven't the police admitted that, when there have been fatalities, they do sometimes have a policy of closing the road essentially to show respect for the deceased and their families, and also to demonstrate to other road users what the consequences of bad driving can be. While I'm sure that those trapped in traffic all feel sad about what has happened, should they be made to show respect and guilt in this way? -- Ian |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Mar 17, 8:31*am, Ian Jackson wrote: In message , Richard J. writes [...] Your description of an accident in which someone died (an acquaintance of an acquaintance of mine actually) as a "perfectly ordinary accident" and a "bog standard accident" just shows how callously insensitive you are. Any argument based on those sentiments is not worth debating. Good night. I fully understand your feelings about such situations. However, haven't the police admitted that, when there have been fatalities, they do sometimes have a policy of closing the road essentially to show respect for the deceased and their families, and also to demonstrate to other road users what the consequences of bad driving can be. [...] That sounds like total nonsense - can you point to any such 'admission'? [...] While I'm sure that those trapped in traffic all feel sad about what has happened, should they be made to show respect and guilt in this way? |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
In message
, Mizter T writes On Mar 17, 8:31*am, Ian Jackson wrote: In message , Richard J. writes [...] Your description of an accident in which someone died (an acquaintance of an acquaintance of mine actually) as a "perfectly ordinary accident" and a "bog standard accident" just shows how callously insensitive you are. Any argument based on those sentiments is not worth debating. Good night. I fully understand your feelings about such situations. However, haven't the police admitted that, when there have been fatalities, they do sometimes have a policy of closing the road essentially to show respect for the deceased and their families, and also to demonstrate to other road users what the consequences of bad driving can be. [...] That sounds like total nonsense - can you point to any such 'admission'? It was three or four years ago - I think when the M5 was shut for a long, long time, with a lot of people being left trapped. And I think that, about the same time, several other road closures occurred. Questions began to be asked about whether such protracted closures were really justified. At least one police spokesman thought that some mark of respect was necessary in these circumstances. [...] While I'm sure that those trapped in traffic all feel sad about what has happened, should they be made to show respect and guilt in this way? -- Ian |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
wrote in message
... On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 22:58:43 +0000 "Richard J." wrote: this morning involved a lorry and a motorcycle. One man died there. This was not a "modest accident". It was a perfectly ordinary accident. You seem to be stating this as a fact; what is your source of knowledge? -- DAS |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
wrote in message ... Some accidents on the M25 and A40 this morning basically gridlocked most of west london thanks to plod taking their own sweet time to clear up the scene. Does it really warrant closing a major road for 3 bloody hours (and counting) just to take notes of a car crash? Once the casualties have been ferried away , take some photos and push the vehicles onto the side of the road until they can be towed away. What is the bloody problem with plod in this country? Why does even a modest accident have to be a ****ing "crime scene"? Have they really got nothing else better to do with their time? It's impatience like that that causes accidents. :-) -- Brian "Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman." |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:51:06 +0000
Bill wrote: What samples? DNA on the road surface? FFS , when vehicles crash its not rocket science to figure out what happened. I am glad that you are such an expert, rocket science may well be simpler. If that was the case we'd be launching 2000 rockets a year. I haven't seen any taking off from the M25 recently, have you? Well with few photos and conflicting evidence there would be no presecution so I wouldn't be worried. You would be if a couple of people claimed that they saw you speeding and driving erratically before the incident and you knew full well that you were within the speed limit. I'm sure that you would be pleading for the scientific evidence then to prove your claim. Given the number of CCTV cameras on major roads in london I'd be quite happy for them to whip out the tape and I'd be out of court in 5 minutes. B2003 |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:00:42 +0000
Bill wrote: Do your relatives share this view? Not a quick yes/no, but a thought No idea, and once I'm dead I won't care. They manage to get the tube up and running fairly quickly when someone falls under a train so there's absolutely no reason for a major arterial road to be closed for almost the entire morning just because of a bog standard road accident. There is a slight difference in the two situations and the complexity of the detail. Not really. Not everyone who falls under a tube train jumps - some are pushed. Who was the suspect, where did he go etc etc... B2003 |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 00:58:09 +0000
"Richard J." wrote: Your description of an accident in which someone died (an acquaintance of an acquaintance of mine actually) as a "perfectly ordinary accident" and a "bog standard accident" just shows how callously insensitive you are. Any argument based on those sentiments is not worth debating. Good night. I feel your pain about the death of "an aquaintance of an aquantaince". Did you get councilling? Lets be realistic - the death of anyone is a loss to their friends and relatives but means jack **** to everyone else. If that sounds callous then ask yourself whether you burst into tears or even think every day about the hundreds of kids who die in africa every day from malnutrition or disease? No? Didn't think so. So don't pretend you give a rats arse about someone you don't know dying in a road accident. B2003 |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Mar 18, 11:14*pm, "Brian Watson" wrote:
wrote in message ... Some accidents on the M25 and A40 this morning basically gridlocked most of west london thanks to plod taking their own sweet time to clear up the scene.. Does it really warrant closing a major road for 3 bloody hours (and counting) just to take notes of a car crash? Once the casualties have been ferried away , take some photos and push the vehicles onto the side of the road until they can be towed away. What is the bloody problem with plod in this country? Why does even a modest accident have to be a ****ing "crime scene"? Have they really got nothing else better to do with their time? It's impatience like that that causes accidents. Nobody has yet said why our police need a substantial amount of hours to accomplish what foreign police manage in usually about an hour? The quality of proof to gain a conviction in say the Netherlands is just as stringent as in the UK so why the delays? |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Friday, 16 March 2012 23:18:35 UTC, Alek Smart wrote:
I seem to recall it being Brendan's brother Domnic who made the Police Intervention comment.... "I can concieve of no human situation so awful,that could'nt be immediately worsened by the interest of a Gard" (Irish Police) Either way, it's worth raising a glass to the pair of em on the day ? Thanks! I have never ever seen the quote written down... I heard it once (on Radio 4, I suppose) and thought it was so true that I remembered it. I shall continue to quote it, now-properly-attributed, with 'policeman' (of course) instead of Gard. Cheers! |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:39:19 -0700 (PDT)
NM wrote: Nobody has yet said why our police need a substantial amount of hours to accomplish what foreign police manage in usually about an hour? The quality of proof to gain a conviction in say the Netherlands is just as stringent as in the UK so why the delays? My guess would be lazyness. If no one makes you hurry then you won't so plod isn't going to get his arse into gear and get everything sorted in an hour if he can keep the road closed, have an easy life and take 3. B2003 |
Bloody traffic police at accidents
"NM" wrote in message
... Nobody has yet said why our police need a substantial amount of hours to accomplish what foreign police manage in usually about an hour? Having worked on Police systems in the past I would say it's very unusual for accident investigation to be a major cause of delay. In the UK the Police role at the accident site is largely scene management, because other agencies deal with the injured and dead, removal of damaged vehicles and making safe any damage to the infrastructure. Any of these can take hours to sort out before a road can be safely reopened, but without detailed knowledge of a particular incident I wouldn't know what the reason(s) for a prolonged road closure are. You don't get this sort of detail from a road traffic report on the radio, which is why I asked the OP for his information sources. -- DAS |
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