On 23/03/2012 02:35, The Iron Jelloid wrote:

paid-for loos tend to be vastly
cleaner and better maintained, and rather less likely to be occupied by
undesirables, than free ones.

This doesn't seem to apply to station toilets - London Victoria seems to
come with undesirables built in.

Then there are the German stations which charge about the same as an
open return on Virgin.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In uk.railway Roland Perry wrote:
I'm fairly sure there's a law that says you must provide free toilets if
you serve alcohol - and this has been floated as the reason why St
Pancras toilets are free (the champagne bar etc).

Does this mean you can't have 'a trolley service of drinks and ... a fully
licensed bar' on a 313? Or a unit where the only toilet is locked out of
use?

Theo

In message , at 10:25:42 on Fri,
23 Mar 2012, Theo Markettos
remarked:
I'm fairly sure there's a law that says you must provide free toilets if
you serve alcohol - and this has been floated as the reason why St
Pancras toilets are free (the champagne bar etc).

Does this mean you can't have 'a trolley service of drinks and ... a fully
licensed bar' on a 313? Or a unit where the only toilet is locked out of
use?

Trains are a special case and aren't licenced, so I would expect any law
about licenced premises not to apply.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:29:40 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 02:35:40 on Fri,
23 Mar 2012, The Iron Jelloid
remarked:
TBH I don't see why people object to pay bogs, it's not as if 30p is
exactly going to break anyone's bank

It's whether you have the 30p on you or not (ie no use if all you have
is a 50p). Although the loos at Kings Cross have change machines
outside, so that's OK until they break.

It's a bit of a shame you can't use your Oyster card.

In message , at 12:04:01 on
Fri, 23 Mar 2012, David Walters remarked:
TBH I don't see why people object to pay bogs, it's not as if 30p is
exactly going to break anyone's bank

It's whether you have the 30p on you or not (ie no use if all you have
is a 50p). Although the loos at Kings Cross have change machines
outside, so that's OK until they break.

It's a bit of a shame you can't use your Oyster card.

Because of banking regulations that would probably only be allowed if
the toilets were operated by TfL. However, they could accept "Paywave"
credit cards.

In the future, it might be worth trying to get the law
changed/clarified, to see if stored credit on ITSO cards (eg issued by
FCC or EC) could be used, as buying from Network Rail rather than the
ToCs is almost the same thing. And that would leave the way open for
"free facilities" for season ticket holders and so on.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 21:15:06 on Thu, 22 Mar
2012, Roland Perry remarked:

I'm fairly sure there's a law that says you must provide free toilets
if you serve alcohol - and this has been floated as the reason why St
Pancras toilets are free (the champagne bar etc).

However I'm happy to revert to a legal newsgroup to discuss if this is
an urban legend.

Having done that, it seems that there's no overarching legal
requirement, but some councils have it as (in effect) a byelaw through
standard licencing conditions. But not Camden.

Looking at Camden's online licencing site, the Parcel Yard, M&S[1] and
the apparently[2] dry Mexican fastfood joint next to the wine bar have
licences, but the wine bar itself isn't listed.

[1] The outlet my earlier informant must have missed, on the outer edge,
along with the escalators from the NTH which others have missed.
This is a fascinating time, when seasoned travellers can experience
what it's like to be an infrequent user of a station.

[2] I had a quick look around it yesterday evening and couldn't see any
alcohol for sale.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:40:48 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:04:01 on

It's a bit of a shame you can't use your Oyster card.

Because of banking regulations that would probably only be allowed if
the toilets were operated by TfL. However, they could accept "Paywave"
credit cards.

But the Oyster card is being used on non-TfL services! It can also be used
to pay for entry to a museum, so it's apparently legal to use it to pay for
other things than transportation fares.

--
jhk

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 16:21:27 +0100
Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:40:48 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:04:01 on

It's a bit of a shame you can't use your Oyster card.

Because of banking regulations that would probably only be allowed if
the toilets were operated by TfL. However, they could accept "Paywave"
credit cards.

But the Oyster card is being used on non-TfL services! It can also be used
to pay for entry to a museum, so it's apparently legal to use it to pay for
other things than transportation fares.

Its essentially a gift voucher (you pay someone money, they'll redeem it
later for goods or services) so there's no legal issue at all.

B2003

In message , at 16:21:27 on
Fri, 23 Mar 2012, Jarle H Knudsen remarked:
It's a bit of a shame you can't use your Oyster card.

Because of banking regulations that would probably only be allowed if
the toilets were operated by TfL. However, they could accept "Paywave"
credit cards.

But the Oyster card is being used on non-TfL services!

I suppose it is, so there's been some relaxation, but still train fares.

It can also be used to pay for entry to a museum,

I'm not aware of that. TfL don't accept it at their own museum.

so it's apparently legal to use it to pay for other things than
transportation fares.

The bit which isn't legal is TfL acting as a "bank" - holding customers'
money then paying it out to third parties.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 15:26:31 on Fri, 23 Mar
2012, d remarked:
But the Oyster card is being used on non-TfL services! It can also be used
to pay for entry to a museum, so it's apparently legal to use it to pay for
other things than transportation fares.

Its essentially a gift voucher (you pay someone money, they'll redeem it
later for goods or services) so there's no legal issue at all.

It's regarded as a banking facility (or e-money), if they can be spent
with a third party. Most gift cards are tied to one shop or product.

There are some with wider acceptance, but as they "feel like cash", I
would expect them to be covered by FSA rules[1]. The issue with TfL and
Oyster was they didn't want that extra burden.

[1] http://www.flexesaver.co.uk/love2shop-gift-cards/ (FSA Ref. 900016)
--
Roland Perry