In Barcelona, TMB have recently announced a redesign of their bus
network. As many will know much of the city is laid-out on a grid
pattern and correspondingly the new network is to have a large number
of horizontal (Hnn), vertical (Vnn) and diagonal (Dnn) routes, and
this new network is to be introduced in phases, along with changes to
those existing routes that will remain. The first of the H routes,
along the Gran Via, is to get a number of double-articulated buses. I
wonder what Boris would think of that?

Now, the core of the much larger London bus network is quite historic.
A number of train operators have come round to the idea of a complete
recast of routes and times, often the first for 40 years. My question
is would London's buses benefit from a clean sheet? Ignoring for the
moment the complications introduced by tendering, would this be a good
thing on the streets? Ideas please.

Richard.

On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 11:22:02PM +0100, Richard wrote:

In Barcelona, TMB have recently announced a redesign of their bus
network. As many will know much of the city is laid-out on a grid
pattern and correspondingly the new network is to have a large number
of horizontal (Hnn), vertical (Vnn) and diagonal (Dnn) routes, and
this new network is to be introduced in phases, along with changes to
those existing routes that will remain. The first of the H routes,
along the Gran Via, is to get a number of double-articulated buses. I
wonder what Boris would think of that?

Artics are sensible if they mostly go straight across junctions. The
25, back when that was bendy, was a good example.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

"There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza."
"WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THERE IS A HOLE IN YOUR BUCKET?"

On 2012\06\08 00:46, Paul Corfield wrote:

What I would like to see is some considered, in depth reviews about
long standing "missing direct links" in the bus network [1].

[1] - some examples. Walthamstow - Enfield,

The 191 linked Enfield with the north side of Walthamstow, but was
curtailed in 1982, so I'm not sure how much use such a route would get,
but extending the W8 to Angel Road Tescos seems like a no-brainer, and
that would give a much better one-change route from Walthamstow to
Enfield than any of the existing traffic-clogged options.

Incidentally, there is a video map showing every bus journey in London
on http://mappinglondon.co.uk/ along with a tube map redesigned to fit
in a strip of tape and other goodies.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 13:19:46 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\06\08 00:46, Paul Corfield wrote:

What I would like to see is some considered, in depth reviews about
long standing "missing direct links" in the bus network [1].

[1] - some examples. Walthamstow - Enfield,

The 191 linked Enfield with the north side of Walthamstow, but was
curtailed in 1982, so I'm not sure how much use such a route would get,
but extending the W8 to Angel Road Tescos seems like a no-brainer, and

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

B2003

wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

Yes, they refer to the areas in which very local buses operate to avoid the
need to use very long numbers. So W is Walthamstow, U is Uxbridge etc.
RV1 is a special case, meaning RiVerside, though I have no idea if there
was ever planned to be an RV2 or just that it's convention for bus numbers
to actually contain a number of some sort.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

On 8 Jun 2012 12:38:44 GMT
Neil Williams wrote:
wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers
are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

Yes, they refer to the areas in which very local buses operate to avoid the
need to use very long numbers. So W is Walthamstow, U is Uxbridge etc.

That can't be right. The W6 runs near me and I don't live anywhere near
Walthamstow.

B2003

On 2012\06\08 14:31, d wrote:
On 8 Jun 2012 12:38:44 GMT
Neil wrote:
wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers
are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

Yes, they refer to the areas in which very local buses operate to avoid the
need to use very long numbers. So W is Walthamstow, U is Uxbridge etc.

That can't be right. The W6 runs near me and I don't live anywhere near
Walthamstow.

Most of the original W buses served either Wood Green (W2, W3) or
Winchmore Hill (W8, W9) or both (original W4) - only the W21 served
Walthamstow. The W7 never went near any W place, but did share nearly
all of its route with the W2. I believe that the current W6 was created
after all routes went flat fare, so there is no reason for it to be
lettered at all.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers
are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

Yes, they refer to the areas in which very local buses operate to avoid
the
need to use very long numbers. So W is Walthamstow, U is Uxbridge etc.
RV1 is a special case, meaning RiVerside, though I have no idea if there
was ever planned to be an RV2 or just that it's convention for bus numbers
to actually contain a number of some sort.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to
reply.

I sometimes thought that didn't sit very well when the 55 (Chiswick/Hayes
via both sides of the Uxbridge Road) was replaced by the E3
(Chiswick/Greenford via both sides of the Uxbridge Road). Living as I did
at one of the Chiswick Terminii it never felt like a local Ealing service.

On 2012-06-08 12:38:44 +0000, Neil Williams said:

wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

Yes, they refer to the areas in which very local buses operate to avoid the
need to use very long numbers. So W is Walthamstow, U is Uxbridge etc.
RV1 is a special case, meaning RiVerside, though I have no idea if there
was ever planned to be an RV2 or just that it's convention for bus numbers
to actually contain a number of some sort.

Neil

This all goes back to the Reshaping London's Buses scheme that started
in 1968. The changes were made area by area, and one of the first to go
was Wood Green. Flat-fare single-deck standee routes W1 - W6 were
created there, with W standing for Wood Green, followed not long after
by W7, a direct replacement for the 212. Walthamstow soon got the
treatment and acquired flat-fare W21, Ealing got the E1, E2 and E3, and
Morden the M1 (ex 151).

Some later routes just joined in existing nearby numbering schemes, so
Enfield got the W8 when the 128 went flat-fare, and the W9 when it got
the minibus.

Years earlier letters were much more common on London bus routes, but
as suffixes. This is down the Met. Police and a commisioner called
Bassom, who insisted that every variant of a route had to have a
separate number. This lead to, for instance, the 406F running between
kingston and Tattenham Corner until not too long ago.

Even when Bassom numbering was no longer mandatory, LT still used
letter suffixes for route variants. For instance, there were routes 2,
2A and 2B running between various combinations of North Finchley (and
probably much further north once), Victoria, Norwood and Crystal Palace
via more than one routing. And the 4A (Farringdon Street - Finsbury
Park) was not the only example of a suffixed route that had no
unadorned version.

Even the Green Line coaches used suffixes: 715 was Guildford - Hertford
via Wood Green; 715a was Oxford Circus - Hertford via Tottenham. There
were also routes 716 and 716A.

On 2012\06\08 13:28, d wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

The original ones such as the W8 were flat fare routes, before all bus
routes were flat fare. Many of them replaced existing numbered bus
routes, for instance the W3 was called the 233 before it went flat fare
in 1968. Some or all of them had a coin box with a slot and gave no
change, and some or all took multi-ride clipper strips in a turnstile
lane opposite the driver. Other routes such as the W5 were introduced
after all buses went flat fare, so there is no good reason for them to
have the letter.