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wrote:

Is there a metro system in the world that isn't turn up and go?

Merseyrail on a Sunday. The S Bahn Stuttgart.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Underground Maps Unravelled
 

On 21 Aug 2012 09:18:26 GMT
Neil Williams wrote:
wrote:

Is there a metro system in the world that isn't turn up and go?

Merseyrail on a Sunday. The S Bahn Stuttgart.

Are you suggesting you have to book in advance to use these systems on a
sunday? Excuse me if I'm not convinced.

B2003

Underground Maps Unravelled
 

wrote:

Are you suggesting you have to book in advance to use these systems on a
sunday? Excuse me if I'm not convinced.

No, but I am suggesting that they operate relatively infrequent services on
a half hourly base which unless you have lots of time in your hands
requires the use of a timetable or journey planner, not just a map.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Underground Maps Unravelled
 

On 21 Aug 2012 09:29:39 GMT
Neil Williams wrote:
wrote:

Are you suggesting you have to book in advance to use these systems on a
sunday? Excuse me if I'm not convinced.

No, but I am suggesting that they operate relatively infrequent services on
a half hourly base which unless you have lots of time in your hands
requires the use of a timetable or journey planner, not just a map.

A half hourly basis isn't that bad for those systems on a sunday given they're
suburban rail systems and not really metros at all. On average you'll only be
waiting 15 mins.

B2003

Underground Maps Unravelled
 

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 09:47:48 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

A half hourly basis isn't that bad for those systems on a sunday given they're
suburban rail systems and not really metros at all. On average you'll only be
waiting 15 mins.

But you would have to plan for a half hour wait.

--
jhk

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On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 08:36:50AM +0000, d wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
As we approach the point where everyone has a smart-phone, we might
Who is "everyone"? I don't, most of my family don't, a lot of my friends
don't. Don't confuse teenagers and hipsters with "everyone".

The key word "approach" should have told you that we're not there yet.

And this is obviously for values of "everyone" which deliberately
doesn't consider the vanishingly small population of digital refuseniks,
who will be economically and socially irrelevant just like those who
don't have a phone of any kind are.

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

[OS X] appeals to me as a monk, a user, a compiler-of-apps, a
sometime coder, and an easily amused primate with a penchant
for those that are pretty, colorful, and make nice noises.
-- Dan Birchall, in The Monastery

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On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:40:50 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 08:36:50AM +0000, d wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
As we approach the point where everyone has a smart-phone, we might
Who is "everyone"? I don't, most of my family don't, a lot of my friends
don't. Don't confuse teenagers and hipsters with "everyone".

The key word "approach" should have told you that we're not there yet.

And what makes you think we will get there? Just because smartphones are
the techno fashion du jour at the moment doesn't mean they will be in
10 years time. Something else will probably have come along by then to part
the drooling sheeple from their money.

And this is obviously for values of "everyone" which deliberately
doesn't consider the vanishingly small population of digital refuseniks,

You seem to be implying that not buying a smartphone is some kind of social
or political statement rather than the simple fact that some of us simply
don't need or want one and therefor don't see any reason to buy one. I don't
have a home surround sound system or the latest core i7 PC for the same
reason - does that also make me a "refusenik" in your eyes?

who will be economically and socially irrelevant just like those who

If you need to have a smartphone to be socially relevant then there's
something seriously wrong with your social life and probably social skills.
Though I imagine for anyone who suffers from aspergers or similar problems
they're a godsend.

B2003

Underground Maps Unravelled
 

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 10:22:39AM +0000, d wrote:
On 20 Aug 2012 09:59:13 GMT
Neil Williams wrote:
Perhaps borrow one for a bit. I said a while ago that journey planners
were the best thing that ever happened to public transport. Add a
smartphone, and it truly is a "killer app". Try it before you reject the
idea totally.
I'm not buying a smartphone just to read a map. Navigating a metro system
is hardly rocket science. A map on a wall is all anyone needs unless they're
terminally stupid and need to be spoon fed even the simplest information.

If you'd actually used a journey planner, you would know that you are
talking about something completely different. A mere map can't include
all the buses, or know how frequent they are, and how frequent all the
trains are, or which lines are open, and so be able to find the best
route for you across all modes of transport and tell you how long it'll
take (kinda important for when you have to get from your hotel to the
station to get your train home), taking into account your preferences
for number of changes, how far to walk etc.

Add to that travelling in a foreign country, where you might not be able
to read things like "this station is closed at weekends" or "北京地�",
and you will see that an application running on your phone in your
language is clearly better than a map.

I recommend this one http://metro.nanika.net/.

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

Your call is important to me. To see if it's important to
you I'm going to make you wait on hold for five minutes.
All calls are recorded for blackmail and amusement purposes.

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On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 09:40:23PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

Wi-fi would need to be completely free and available everywhere on the
network before you could contemplate using a phone.

Or use 3G/EDGE/GPRS. You need to figure out your route before going to
the platform anyway - after all, if you don't do that, you won't know
which station to start at or which line you want. And you might find
that you're better taking a bus.

Provided that you sort it out in advance with your cellco it need not be
expensive even when you're abroad.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

One person can change the world, but most of the time they shouldn't
-- Marge Simpson

Underground Maps Unravelled
 

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:57:15 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
If you'd actually used a journey planner, you would know that you are
talking about something completely different. A mere map can't include
all the buses, or know how frequent they are, and how frequent all the
trains are, or which lines are open, and so be able to find the best
route for you across all modes of transport and tell you how long it'll
take (kinda important for when you have to get from your hotel to the
station to get your train home), taking into account your preferences
for number of changes, how far to walk etc.

You're assuming any information you'll get on your phone will be up to date.
Having used travel websites myself I suspect the chances of that always
being the case are slim.

Add to that travelling in a foreign country, where you might not be able
to read things like "this station is closed at weekends" or "北京地�",
and you will see that an application running on your phone in your
language is clearly better than a map.

Fine, but that means you're relying on a device that could be lost, stolen,
have no connection or a flat battery. Then what? Pidgin english with the
nearest local who looks like he might know when the next bus shows?

B2003