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TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
Just noticed this on the TfL website
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/bus...d/consult_view Reason given is that very few (approx 1%) of bus journeys involve a cash fare. Have to say that my experience of these machines is that they cause confusion for tourists, and often delays as the driver waits for someone to get off the bus, fiddle around and buy a ticket, and then get back on. Most regular travellers will have a travelcard or Oyster PAYG, as will some visitors, but there will always be a need for some people to pay by cash. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 04:05:42 -0700 (PDT)
Paul wrote: Just noticed this on the TfL website https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/bus...d/consult_view Reason given is that very few (approx 1%) of bus journeys involve a cash fare. Very few people pay by cash because the *******s at TfL racked up the cash fare to a ridiculous amount compared to paying by Oyster precisely to discourage people paying that way. Now they have the gall to say , oh , not many people want to pay by cash so we'll get rid of that service! Talk about self serving bull****. B2003 |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:05:42 PM UTC+1, Paul wrote:
Just noticed this on the TfL website https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/bus...d/consult_view Reason given is that very few (approx 1%) of bus journeys involve a cash fare. Have to say that my experience of these machines is that they cause confusion for tourists, and often delays as the driver waits for someone to get off the bus, fiddle around and buy a ticket, and then get back on. Most regular travellers will have a travelcard or Oyster PAYG, as will some visitors, but there will always be a need for some people to pay by cash. The link I have posted explicitly states that people will be able to continue paying by cash. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 12:24:02 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote: Wow - such vitriole over a policy that was developed to speed up services in London for those of us who live there! It's not like having I live there. an Oyster card is that much of a hardship, and nor is it like the credit on it expires if unused. And if you forget it or lose it why should you pay more for the same service? and the ability to pay cash fares, at a justifiable premium for the delay they cause other passengers (80 people on a double decker delayed for 15 seconds each by someone fumbling for their change is a cumulative 20 minutes waste of time for which they are being charged 95p, or considerably less than 50% of minimum wage), is going to continue to exist. The only reason there is a delay paying is because of one person operated buses. Another genius cost cutting idea by TfLs predecessor. No one would think a train driver collecting fares is a good idea but for some reason the idea a bus driver should do it passes unremarked. And I guess you've never seen the fuss when someones Oyster card doesn't work and they stand there for 5 mins arguing with the driver? B2003 |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
wrote:
And I guess you've never seen the fuss when someones Oyster card doesn't work and they stand there for 5 mins arguing with the driver? Which is one issue that the current policy causes, and a return to allowing cash fares will solve, particularly where a group is travelling and the last one to board has a card problem. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
No one would think a train driver collecting fares is a good idea but for some reason the idea a bus driver should do it passes unremarked. In this country you're probably right. In others, however, I've seen quite a few trains where the driver collects the fare. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 13:51:33 +0100
"Graham Harrison" wrote: No one would think a train driver collecting fares is a good idea but for some reason the idea a bus driver should do it passes unremarked. In this country you're probably right. In others, however, I've seen quite a few trains where the driver collects the fare. Which country is this? I've travelled a bit and I've seen tram drivers collect fairs but never a train driver. B2003 |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 13:51:33 +0100 "Graham Harrison" wrote: No one would think a train driver collecting fares is a good idea but for some reason the idea a bus driver should do it passes unremarked. In this country you're probably right. In others, however, I've seen quite a few trains where the driver collects the fare. Which country is this? I've travelled a bit and I've seen tram drivers collect fairs but never a train driver. B2003 Most recently, Japan. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:57:28 +0100
"Graham Harrison" wrote: a few trains where the driver collects the fare. Which country is this? I've travelled a bit and I've seen tram drivers collect fairs but never a train driver. B2003 Most recently, Japan. Does he walk down the train or do you just board through the front door? I presume this is some local service and not the bullet train! B2003 |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
"Graham Harrison" wrote:
In this country you're probably right. In others, however, I've seen quite a few trains where the driver collects the fare. In Germany on rural lines they nominally can, but it's more that they note you've been to speak to them and tell any inspector not to issue a penalty fare, rather than actually selling a ticket. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:57:28 +0100 "Graham Harrison" wrote: a few trains where the driver collects the fare. Which country is this? I've travelled a bit and I've seen tram drivers collect fairs but never a train driver. B2003 Most recently, Japan. Does he walk down the train or do you just board through the front door? I presume this is some local service and not the bullet train! B2003 It was a single car (bit like a 153 in the UK or RDC in the USA but probably lighter than either). Board at the front and pay. On a "level 3" (JR being 1 and the major independents like Kintetsu 2) railway in the Aso caldera on Kyushu (picture here http://goo.gl/maps/hyx4b ). I've seen it somewhere in Europe but I can't remember where. It may have been Denmark |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 13/09/2012 12:05, Paul wrote:
Just noticed this on the TfL website https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/bus...d/consult_view Reason given is that very few (approx 1%) of bus journeys involve a cash fare. Have to say that my experience of these machines is that they cause confusion for tourists, and often delays as the driver waits for someone to get off the bus, fiddle around and buy a ticket, and then get back on. I have seen many a bus driver close the doors and drive off when some yup gets off the bus to buy a ticket and insist that the driver wait. Most regular travellers will have a travelcard or Oyster PAYG, as will some visitors, but there will always be a need for some people to pay by cash. I suppose it makes sense to remove the machines as it will cut costs for staff or contractors to go to each of these machines, carry out maintenance and effect any needed repairs. Coin transport costs are also not cheap, AIUI. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 13/09/2012 13:29, Neil Williams wrote:
wrote: And I guess you've never seen the fuss when someones Oyster card doesn't work and they stand there for 5 mins arguing with the driver? Which is one issue that the current policy causes, and a return to allowing cash fares will solve, particularly where a group is travelling and the last one to board has a card problem. Neil It always seems to happen in the morning when some woman has to fumble through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 13/09/2012 13:51, Graham Harrison wrote:
No one would think a train driver collecting fares is a good idea but for some reason the idea a bus driver should do it passes unremarked. In this country you're probably right. In others, however, I've seen quite a few trains where the driver collects the fare. Tram drivers will do it many cities around Europe. I have also seen drivers on the Warsaw Commuter Railway sell tickets. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
" wrote:
It always seems to happen in the morning when some woman has to fumble through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. Sounds like the sort of people who get taken aback when they are asked to pay for their shopping at a supermarket having packed it all, then spend half an hour finding their cash or card to do so. Here's an idea for those people - there is a handy little shelf above the scanning thingy. Put your card/purse/wallet on there ready before starting to pack and we won't all have to wait for you to faff. (The lack of tolerance for such faffing is one of the benefits of shopping at Aldi etc...) As for the bus, if the driver can take cash, the bus can start moving while the faffing takes place. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
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TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
Someone Somewhere wrote:
Wow - such vitriole over a policy that was developed to speed up services in London for those of us who live there! It's not like having an Oyster card is that much of a hardship, and nor is it like the credit on it expires if unused. It may not expire but I've never been able to transfer credit from one card to another. When the discount cards have to be renewed each year you often find either credit being wasted on old cards or a pain when one miscalculates when cancelling the auto-top-up and finds the balancing running out in the middle of the night. -- My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
wrote:
I suppose it makes sense to remove the machines as it will cut costs for staff or contractors to go to each of these machines, carry out maintenance and effect any needed repairs. Coin transport costs are also not cheap, AIUI. For presumably those reasons they've been withdrawn from stops outside the cashless zone when the buses were debendified. One of the harshest memories from when they were first brought in was when machines broke down and drivers refused to take would-be passengers who said this. A particular bad one involved a mother with a pushchair. -- My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 13/09/2012 23:32, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
wrote: I suppose it makes sense to remove the machines as it will cut costs for staff or contractors to go to each of these machines, carry out maintenance and effect any needed repairs. Coin transport costs are also not cheap, AIUI. For presumably those reasons they've been withdrawn from stops outside the cashless zone when the buses were debendified. One of the harshest memories from when they were first brought in was when machines broke down and drivers refused to take would-be passengers who said this. A particular bad one involved a mother with a pushchair. The driver should have just waved the mother on board in that case, at least as a one-off. The others could have gone to the newsagent and bought tickets or topped up their Oysters. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:37:21 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On 13/09/2012 23:32, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: wrote: I suppose it makes sense to remove the machines as it will cut costs for staff or contractors to go to each of these machines, carry out maintenance and effect any needed repairs. Coin transport costs are also not cheap, AIUI. For presumably those reasons they've been withdrawn from stops outside the cashless zone when the buses were debendified. One of the harshest memories from when they were first brought in was when machines broke down and drivers refused to take would-be passengers who said this. A particular bad one involved a mother with a pushchair. The driver should have just waved the mother on board in that case, at least as a one-off. The others could have gone to the newsagent and bought tickets or topped up their Oysters. It is not always the case that there is a newsagent open near the bus stop at the time you want to travel. Even if there was, you can't buy single tickets. There will always be someone who needs to pay by cash, for a variety of reasons. (eg lost/stolen Oystercard, no Oystercard to begin with, or wanting to travel at 5am when there is no money on the card, and no means of topping up the card nearby. ) Many bus operators in Europe will sell single tickets on the bus, usually at a slight premium, and you cannot pay with anything greater than a €10 note. (eg in Belgium a single from the station in Bruges to the city centre costs €2 if bought on the bus, or €1.20 if bought in advance from the kiosk or machine) Part of the problem is that the cash fare in London is considerably more expensive than the Oyster fare. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
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TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:20:36 +0100
Tony Dragon wrote: through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus. Probably the same idiots who get to the supermarket checkout and only then start excavating their handbags for their purse. B2003 |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 14/09/2012 13:20, Tony Dragon wrote:
On 13/09/2012 21:11, wrote: On 13/09/2012 13:29, Neil Williams wrote: wrote: And I guess you've never seen the fuss when someones Oyster card doesn't work and they stand there for 5 mins arguing with the driver? Which is one issue that the current policy causes, and a return to allowing cash fares will solve, particularly where a group is travelling and the last one to board has a card problem. Neil It always seems to happen in the morning when some woman has to fumble through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus. It really is. Speaks levels about the degrees of self-absorption, if you ask me. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
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TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 16/09/2012 20:02, Phil wrote:
d writes: On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:20:36 +0100 Tony Dragon wrote: through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus. Probably the same idiots who get to the supermarket checkout and only then start excavating their handbags for their purse. Or get a statement out of a cash machine and stand there reading it, oblivious that they are preventing those behind her using the machine. Or those that sit there for a while, trying to figure out what to do once they have keyed in their PIN. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 2012-09-14 19:32:08 +0000, said:
On 14/09/2012 13:20, Tony Dragon wrote: On 13/09/2012 21:11, wrote: On 13/09/2012 13:29, Neil Williams wrote: wrote: And I guess you've never seen the fuss when someones Oyster card doesn't work and they stand there for 5 mins arguing with the driver? Which is one issue that the current policy causes, and a return to allowing cash fares will solve, particularly where a group is travelling and the last one to board has a card problem. Neil It always seems to happen in the morning when some woman has to fumble through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus. It really is. Speaks levels about the degrees of self-absorption, if you ask me. It's actually worse than has been stated. It goes like this: get on bus; look at driver quizzically; fumble in shopping bag for handbag; open handbag; fumble and locate purse; open that; spend five minutes gathering shrapnell. I remember when many London buses had a ticket machine inside the right-hand leaf of the entrance door, so those with the right money could bypass the queue for the driver. The really slow ones were the worst at having a go at 'queue jumpers". |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
Ken Wheatley wrote:
I remember when many London buses had a ticket machine inside the right-hand leaf of the entrance door, so those with the right money could bypass the queue for the driver. The really slow ones were the worst at having a go at 'queue jumpers". It would to me make sense to have an Oyster pad there. Hamburg is slightly similar - driver side leaf for paying cash, other side for getting past while people pay cash (you don't have to show your ticket). It is extremely efficient, and as London has disabled access at the rear door the centre rail could be reinstated to help "marshall" it. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
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TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
In message , at 20:02:59 on Sun, 16 Sep 2012,
Phil remarked: through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus. Probably the same idiots who get to the supermarket checkout and only then start excavating their handbags for their purse. Or get a statement out of a cash machine and stand there reading it, oblivious that they are preventing those behind her using the machine. At the supermarket self-checkout yesterday I observed someone paying in coins, one at a time, looking at the display in between each one to see how much more was required. She was putting in over a fiver in small coins! Even if you over-pay, they return the balance to you as change. And when finally paid up, she carefully took every item individually off the bagging area and placed it in her rucksack. Which took another several minutes. -- Roland Perry |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 16/09/2012 21:22, wrote:
On 16/09/2012 20:02, Phil wrote: d writes: On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:20:36 +0100 Tony Dragon wrote: It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus. Probably the same idiots who get to the supermarket checkout and only then start excavating their handbags for their purse. Or get a statement out of a cash machine and stand there reading it, oblivious that they are preventing those behind her using the machine. Or those that sit there for a while, trying to figure out what to do once they have keyed in their PIN. I'm convinced there is a series of options on cash machines that are invisible to the rest of us and are mainly used by those who seem to commune with the things for hours |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
On 14 Sep, 13:20, Tony Dragon wrote:
It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus.- Hide quoted text - Given the historic unreliability of London bus services, I would be reluctant to put money into a machine until I knew for sure the bus would come. Peter |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
peter wrote:
Given the historic unreliability of London bus services, I would be reluctant to put money into a machine until I knew for sure the bus would come. Fair point, though I think the OP referred to buses where you do pay the driver, and many people board having been waiting for ages and only then start faffing in their bag for their purse / wallet / Oyster rather than having it ready in their hand. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
Roland Perry wrote:
At the supermarket self-checkout yesterday I observed someone paying in coins, one at a time, looking at the display in between each one to see how much more was required. She was putting in over a fiver in small coins! Even if you over-pay, they return the balance to you as change. More modern ones have a hopper you can just pour coins in. It's how I get rid of my change jar contents these days - do a big shop at Tesco, lob them all in, then pay the balance by credit card. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
wrote:
That last suggestion is stunningly unhelpful for disabled users and parents with babies in buggies who need to buy tickets! I believe travel is free in Germany for disabled people, certainly wheelchair users. The buggy can be parked and its owner walk forwards to pay if the bus isn't too busy, and if it is a bit of sensible tolerance of paying later when it's quieter can be applied. Access for wheelchairs etc through the space separated by the front wheels is rather sub-optimal compared with direct access to a multipurpose space directly opposite a rear door as in London and Germany. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
Paul Corfield wrote:
London has never been able to make multi stream boarding work properly - what happens when someone's Oyster card bleeps and they're in the "non driver" lane. Answer - they either dodge their fare or the job stops while they back track and queue to see the driver. Has it ever properly tried it? I did notice that when regional buses went low floor and the centre pole went away, operations got slower because you have to wait for everyone to alight before boarding, while before you could board and start paying on the driver side of the pole while people alighted on the other side. The pole also makes things easier for those not in a wheelchair but who find it easier to have handrails on both sides when boarding. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
In message
. net, at 08:27:47 on Mon, 17 Sep 2012, Neil Williams remarked: At the supermarket self-checkout yesterday I observed someone paying in coins, one at a time, looking at the display in between each one to see how much more was required. She was putting in over a fiver in small coins! Even if you over-pay, they return the balance to you as change. More modern ones have a hopper you can just pour coins in. It's how I get rid of my change jar contents these days - do a big shop at Tesco, lob them all in, then pay the balance by credit card. I've not seen one of those, but even without a hopper you can bung in about two coins a second if you try hard. This lady was putting in one coin, looking at the screen, finding another single coin in her purse, carefully inserting it, looking at the screen... rinse and repeat. -- Roland Perry |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
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TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 20:02:59 on Sun, 16 Sep 2012, Phil remarked: through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus. Probably the same idiots who get to the supermarket checkout and only then start excavating their handbags for their purse. Or get a statement out of a cash machine and stand there reading it, oblivious that they are preventing those behind her using the machine. At the supermarket self-checkout yesterday I observed someone paying in coins, one at a time, looking at the display in between each one to see how much more was required. She was putting in over a fiver in small coins! Even if you over-pay, they return the balance to you as change. I've put money in the self checkout and not had it register before now, on one occasion I was certain and when I complained it was found hiding on a little ledge inside the machine, on another occasion I was only 99% certain so I didn't complain and lost the 10p! I now make sure that each coin registers before I put in the next (it's not always a 10p!) tim |
TfL To Remove Roadside Ticket Machines For Buses
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:02:59 on Sun, 16 Sep 2012, Phil remarked: through her purse looking for an Oystercard, and then starts yelling at the driver when he says that he needs to drive off. It's amazing how many people stand at the bus stop for 5 minutes and only remember that they have to pay just as they board the bus. Probably the same idiots who get to the supermarket checkout and only then start excavating their handbags for their purse. Or get a statement out of a cash machine and stand there reading it, oblivious that they are preventing those behind her using the machine. At the supermarket self-checkout yesterday I observed someone paying in coins, one at a time, looking at the display in between each one to see how much more was required. She was putting in over a fiver in small coins! Even if you over-pay, they return the balance to you as change. Hmmm And when finally paid up, she carefully took every item individually off the bagging area and placed it in her rucksack. Which took another several minutes. Well if you have a rucksack you have to do that or else call the helper for everyother item as it does not register as the sensor does not really hold a rucksack. -- Mark |
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