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Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Sep 19, 12:38*pm, allantracy wrote:
I must confess I've never looked at Oyster cards before, having searched I see there is a shop next to H&H that sells them. I presume I just ask for them to be loaded with £x.xx of credit? Does it have to be in certain increments as I won't be back in London in the foreseeable future. I could buy enough for HAY-VIC, VIC-HAY & a Zone 1-2 card for the Saturday. Speaking as an outsider, who rarely visits for more than a day, I have yet to see the point (advantage) of having an Oyster card. I just buy the appropriate Travelcard. I just can't see what Oyster offers that a debit card can't do unless you use it for single journeys. I'm told single journeys are cheaper but have yet to find out by how much. Your thoughts reflect how I felt until I obtained one. And, for single day trips to London you may be better of buying a day return to zones 1thruN. However, if you travel a lot within London it is very liberating. I registered my Oyster on-line and added automatic top-up. Buses trips seem expensive at GBP1.35/boarding. But the Overground and subway journeys are reasonable. Well reasonable by London standards. A monthly pass for the County of Los Angeles is/was very inexpensive. Six years ago I used to buy one each month for USD58.00 minus the USD30.00 subsidy from my employer. Journeys outside zone one are particularly inexpensive. Oyster means there is no lining up to buy tickets, and transitioning between modes is a breeze. |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
Your thoughts reflect how I felt until I obtained one. And, for
single day trips to London you may be better of buying a day return to zones 1thruN. However, if you travel a lot within London it is very liberating. I registered my Oyster on-line and added automatic top-up. Buses trips seem expensive at GBP1.35/boarding. But the Overground and subway journeys are reasonable. Ditto! And you can use them on some local rail routes, for example to Enfield, Chingford etc. I have no idea how you find out WHICH rail routes though. And one thing to watch out for, Network Rail often leave the barriers open, inviting you to just walk though whilst forgetting to "swipe" your Oyster - and then the ticket inspector does you for a penalty fair on the train! Paul DS. |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:27:46 +0100, "Paul D Smith"
wrote: Your thoughts reflect how I felt until I obtained one. And, for single day trips to London you may be better of buying a day return to zones 1thruN. However, if you travel a lot within London it is very liberating. I registered my Oyster on-line and added automatic top-up. Buses trips seem expensive at GBP1.35/boarding. But the Overground and subway journeys are reasonable. Ditto! And you can use them on some local rail routes, for example to Enfield, Chingford etc. I have no idea how you find out WHICH rail routes though. As I pointed our upthread, it's amazing what you can find on the interweb thingy; just use the single fare finder if in doubt: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...t/default.aspx |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Sep 19, 1:27*pm, "Paul D Smith" wrote:
Your thoughts reflect how I felt until I obtained one. *And, for single day trips to London you may be better of buying a day return to zones 1thruN. However, if you travel a lot within London it is very liberating. *I registered my Oyster on-line and added automatic top-up. *Buses trips seem expensive at GBP1.35/boarding. *But the Overground and subway journeys are reasonable. Ditto! *And you can use them on some local rail routes, for example to Enfield, Chingford etc. *I have no idea how you find out WHICH rail routes though. And one thing to watch out for, Network Rail often leave the barriers open, inviting you to just walk though whilst forgetting to "swipe" your Oyster - and then the ticket inspector does you for a penalty fair on the train! That one has not caught me yet. But, it would be very easy to walk thru an open barrier. Touching in and out at TfL barriers is so easy. It would be rather excellent if Oyster could cover the old Network SouthEast area. However, according to Captain Deltic DfT have other ideas. |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
In message
, at 05:42:55 on Wed, 19 Sep 2012, 77002 remarked: And one thing to watch out for, Network Rail often leave the barriers open, inviting you to just walk though whilst forgetting to "swipe" your Oyster - and then the ticket inspector does you for a penalty fair on the train! That one has not caught me yet. But, it would be very easy to walk thru an open barrier. Touching in and out at TfL barriers is so easy. Apart from various glitches in the daily-capping system, there are other bear-traps for the unwary. Don't, for example, arrive at a barriered London terminus and use your Oyster to open the gate to the concourse (rather than using your paper national rail ticket) because that will register as an "incomplete journey" with a huge fine. The system assumes you failed to 'touch-in' somewhere in the outer suburbs. -- Roland Perry |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
And one thing to watch out for, Network Rail often leave the barriers open, inviting you to just walk though whilst forgetting to "swipe" your Oyster - and then the ticket inspector does you for a penalty fair on the train! But, would you need to swipe if your Oyster card is loaded with a Travelcard? Would you need to swipe if you're just using a standard Travelcard ticket? |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
In message
, at 05:53:31 on Wed, 19 Sep 2012, allantracy remarked: And one thing to watch out for, Network Rail often leave the barriers open, inviting you to just walk though whilst forgetting to "swipe" your Oyster - and then the ticket inspector does you for a penalty fair on the train! But, would you need to swipe if your Oyster card is loaded with a Travelcard? You wouldn't, but occasional users are much more likely to be using PAYG than a Travelcard. -- Roland Perry |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:34:14 +0100, Recliner wrote:
As I pointed our upthread, it's amazing what you can find on the interweb thingy; just use the single fare finder if in doubt: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...t/default.aspx I never realised you could grab an Oyster at a newsagent, I've had frequent work trips to Westminster but always walked from Hotel to the office. So, have I got this right...? I get a PAYG Oyster at the newsagent next to H&H & load it with £13 on Friday evening, I then travel to Victoria via Ealing Broadway, touch off at Victoria £2.90 deducted. On the Saturday I decide to go to the Eye so take a short hop to Westminster or Waterloo on the Tube. After this I decide to go to The Science Museum so nip to South Kensington on the tube. Having had my Science fix I decide to take a look at Canary Wharf & nip there on the Tube. When I get there I fancy a go on the DLR & take that to Tower Gateway & take in the Bridge. I then realise I forgot to do the Aquarium after The Eye, now all trained out I take the RV1 bus back to Waterloo. The Oyster has a cap of a days travelcard for the zones visited so £7 deducted. Sunday back to H&H £2.90 deducted, total cost £12.80 leaving 20p credit.Non Oyster cost 2 x £5.30 singles + £7 Zone 1-2 Travelcard £17.60 Does I get that right? Or does an Oyster have to be bought in £10/£5 increments? CD |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
"CD" wrote Sunday back to H&H £2.90 deducted, total cost £12.80 leaving 20p credit.Non Oyster cost 2 x £5.30 singles + £7 Zone 1-2 Travelcard £17.60 Does I get that right? Or does an Oyster have to be bought in £10/£5 increments? You have to pay a GBP 5 deposit when you get an Oyster card, as well as the credit you put on it. This stays on, as well as any unused credit, if you keep the card for a further trip to London, though you can get the deposit (and any unused credit) back if you hand your Oyster card in. Peter |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
Would you need to swipe if you're just using a standard Travelcard ticket? If you have a magnetic Travelcard then you use it at gates where they are working. Obviously you must show it on boarding a bus or present it when requested if a DLR train captain or other revenue inspector asks to see the ticket. The point is that where, especially on NR stations, there is no barrier or inspection it seems you need to remember to swipe an Oyster card but not a Travelcard. So, if there was a subsequent on-train inspection would the Oyster card (with Travelcard) face a potential fraud offence, that would never occur if you simply waved a traditional Travelcard. |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:50:03 -0700 (PDT), allantracy
wrote: Would you need to swipe if you're just using a standard Travelcard ticket? If you have a magnetic Travelcard then you use it at gates where they are working. Obviously you must show it on boarding a bus or present it when requested if a DLR train captain or other revenue inspector asks to see the ticket. The point is that where, especially on NR stations, there is no barrier or inspection it seems you need to remember to swipe an Oyster card but not a Travelcard. So, if there was a subsequent on-train inspection would the Oyster card (with Travelcard) face a potential fraud offence, Not unless they are out to get you. You will face either a PF or an "unresolved journey" fare if you touch out without meeting an inspection. that would never occur if you simply waved a traditional Travelcard. |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On 19/09/2012 13:06, 77002 wrote:
On Sep 19, 12:38 pm, allantracy wrote: I must confess I've never looked at Oyster cards before, having searched I see there is a shop next to H&H that sells them. I presume I just ask for them to be loaded with £x.xx of credit? Does it have to be in certain increments as I won't be back in London in the foreseeable future. I could buy enough for HAY-VIC, VIC-HAY & a Zone 1-2 card for the Saturday. Speaking as an outsider, who rarely visits for more than a day, I have yet to see the point (advantage) of having an Oyster card. I just buy the appropriate Travelcard. I just can't see what Oyster offers that a debit card can't do unless you use it for single journeys. I'm told single journeys are cheaper but have yet to find out by how much. Your thoughts reflect how I felt until I obtained one. And, for single day trips to London you may be better of buying a day return to zones 1thruN. However, if you travel a lot within London it is very liberating. I registered my Oyster on-line and added automatic top-up. Buses trips seem expensive at GBP1.35/boarding. But the Overground and subway journeys are reasonable. Well reasonable by London standards. A monthly pass for the County of Los Angeles is/was very inexpensive. Six years ago I used to buy one each month for USD58.00 minus the USD30.00 subsidy from my employer. Journeys outside zone one are particularly inexpensive. Oyster means there is no lining up to buy tickets, and transitioning between modes is a breeze. Yeah, but the problem is that the person in front of you in queue to use the ticket machine will invariably not have a clue as to how it works. |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
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Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
En el artículo , Paul
Corfield escribió: [megasnip] God, what a mess. Only in Britain. How are visitors to London supposed to cope with all that palaver? Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? -- (\_/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Sep 20, 5:10*am, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? That's Barcelona, 39 square miles, compared to London, 607 square miles, yes? ian |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:01:12 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? Probably because of the (IMV mistaken) idea that public transport should be a profitable enterprise, rather than a public service. -- Alex |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:01:12 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? Probably because of the (IMV mistaken) idea that public transport should be a profitable enterprise, rather than a public service. -- Alex |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:01:12 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? Probably because of the (IMV mistaken) idea that public transport should be a profitable enterprise, rather than a public service. -- Alex |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:01:12 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? Probably because of the (IMV mistaken) idea that public transport should be a profitable enterprise, rather than a public service. -- Alex |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:01:12 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? Probably because of the (IMV mistaken) idea that public transport should be a profitable enterprise, rather than a public service. -- Alex |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:01:12 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? Probably because of the (IMV mistaken) idea that public transport should be a profitable enterprise, rather than a public service. -- Alex |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
ian batten wrote:
On Sep 20, 5:10 am, Mike Tomlinson wrote: Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? That's Barcelona, 39 square miles, compared to London, 607 square miles, yes? That only works ff you have one authority and one operater that cross-subsidises all services. We bought visitor Oyster Cards years ago aboard the Eurostar. We could start using our cards the moment we left Waterloo International. It's not very well know that visitors can buy cards before arriving in London. We have used our cards on tube, bus, train and DLR and are quite impressed with the system. We particularly like the daily cap when visiting London. You never have to worry about how much travelling you're going to do in a day. You will never pay more than a travelcard would have cost you. This makes travel plans in London very flexible for tourists. One thing you have to think about is topping up the card, but that's very easy in London with so many outlets. The other thing is that you have to remember that you don't touch out on bus journeys. That's confusing when you're used to the Dutch OV-chipkaart. :-) The other thing we like about the Oyster Cards is the fact that they're anonymous and without expiration date. When we have friends or family going on a trip to London we simply lend them our cards. All they have to do is top the card for their personal use. When I compare the Oyster Card to the Dutch OV-chipkaart it is extremely well suited to visitors. The Dutch card only gives discount on peronal cards. Topping up can be a nightmare for visitors. When you use the card on trains in NL you need to have a minimum of EUR 20 on your card before you can start a journey. Even if there are some quirks in using the Oyster Card, it compares very well to systems in other countries. Well done to London for introducing this system. It also compares very well to travelling in other parts of the UK. We occasionally use the bus in Bournemouth. There are two operators there and tickets between Yellow Buses and Wilts and Dorset are not interchangeble. Even in a city where there is a decent network, the non-interchangebilty of tickets is extremely annoying and expensive. Not everyone has an OAP bus pass. :-) |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
In message , at 08:21:26 on Thu, 20 Sep
2012, Alex Potter remarked: On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:01:12 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote: Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? Probably because of the (IMV mistaken) idea that public transport should be a profitable enterprise, rather than a public service. It's often more of a case of how big the subsidy is. Not unusual for some overseas Public Transport operations to run on the basis of one third fare box, two thirds subsidy. TFL costs about twice the farebox revenue to run, iirc (£5.5bn operating costs plus £2bn capital projects) versus £3.5bn. So not exactly "profitable". -- Roland Perry |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:25:40 -0700 (PDT)
ian batten wrote: On Sep 20, 5:10=A0am, Mike Tomlinson wrote: Why doesn't TfL adopt the Barcelona system - a fixed fare for a single journey of any length? That's Barcelona, 39 square miles, compared to London, 607 square miles, yes? Try Moscow then - considerably bigger than london. Flat fare. B2003 |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
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Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:34:21 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote: Try Moscow then - considerably bigger than london. Flat fare. Bigger subsidy and smaller network. Not that much smaller and it carries more passengers. Ironic how russia with its bankrupt economy can subsidise when the UK, supposedly one of the top 10 richest countries in the world, can't. B2003 |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
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Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:46:24 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote: On 20/09/2012 10:44, d wrote: On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:34:21 +0100 Graeme wrote: Try Moscow then - considerably bigger than london. Flat fare. Bigger subsidy and smaller network. Not that much smaller Around 200 route miles as against 250 in London. Like I said, not that much smaller unless you're going to suggest that extra 50 miles makes all the difference. But if you want to split hairs - the new york subway also has flat fares. and it carries more passengers. Ironic how russia with its bankrupt economy can subsidise when the UK, supposedly one of the top 10 richest countries in the world, can't. UK does. Not as much as it should and its slowly being reduced as a percentage. B2003 |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:28:10 +0100, Peter Masson wrote:
You have to pay a GBP 5 deposit when you get an Oyster card, as well as the credit you put on it. This stays on, as well as any unused credit, if you keep the card for a further trip to London, though you can get the deposit (and any unused credit) back if you hand your Oyster card in. Thanks, that info is not so obvious on the website but on there somewhere I presume. So I drop into the newsagent by H&H buy an Oyster card & ask for £20 credit, I go do my travels & use £12.80 as I calculated, I then return the Oyster to the shop on my return & get £7.20 back along with my £5 deposit? CD |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
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Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:15:12 +0100
Recliner wrote: On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:44:20 +0000 (UTC), d wrote: On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:34:21 +0100 Graeme Wall wrote: Try Moscow then - considerably bigger than london. Flat fare. Bigger subsidy and smaller network. Not that much smaller and it carries more passengers. Ironic how russia with its bankrupt economy can subsidise when the UK, supposedly one of the top 10 richest countries in the world, can't. How much extra Council Tax would you volunteer to pay, in order to increase the subsidy enough to have a reasonably priced flat fare? Council tax wouldn't come into it. The subsidy is from central government. B2003 |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:51:16 +0200, lid (iMark) wrote: It also compares very well to travelling in other parts of the UK. We occasionally use the bus in Bournemouth. There are two operators there and tickets between Yellow Buses and Wilts and Dorset are not interchangeble. Even in a city where there is a decent network, the non-interchangebilty of tickets is extremely annoying and expensive. Not everyone has an OAP bus pass. :-) You can buy a "Get Around" ticket which does cover all operators in Bournemouth and Poole. Unfortunately it is not very well promoted. http://www.gettingabout.info/GettingAboutTicket.php Thanks for that. Never heard of that ticket. But the following quote from the website is bewildering. "The exact area of validity is shown on the local 'Area Bus Map' available from the Information Office at Bournemouth Rail and Coach Station - underneath Asda." Is it too much trouble in 2012 to turn that map into a pdf and make it available from the website? It's also bewildering that the bus companies don't mention this ticket on their websites (or have hidden the info somewhere I couldnt find it). |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:29:53 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote: Like I said, not that much smaller unless you're going to suggest that extra 50 miles makes all the difference. That's 25% difference. No, its 20%. 50/250, yes? Hope you don't require maths in your job. And which bit of "not that much smaller" are your clearly having trouble with? FWIW the NYCS is almost the same route miles as london but has almost twice the number of stations. But if you want to split hairs - the new york subway also has flat fares. So? So if it works in cities the size of moscow and new york it would work here and special pleading about london being some unusual case due to its size is specious at best. Not as much as it should and its slowly being reduced as a percentage. Are you willing to pay the extra taxes necessary to pay for an increased subsidy? Yes. Mainly because it would cost me less in the long run. I subsidise buses and trains oop narf via my taxes which I'm never going to use, no reason they can't subsidise the tube a bit more. B2003 |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:35:41 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote: On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:15:12 +0100 Recliner wrote: On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:44:20 +0000 (UTC), d wrote: On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:34:21 +0100 Graeme Wall wrote: Try Moscow then - considerably bigger than london. Flat fare. Bigger subsidy and smaller network. Not that much smaller and it carries more passengers. Ironic how russia with its bankrupt economy can subsidise when the UK, supposedly one of the top 10 richest countries in the world, can't. How much extra Council Tax would you volunteer to pay, in order to increase the subsidy enough to have a reasonably priced flat fare? Council tax wouldn't come into it. The subsidy is from central government. Some £6m TfL subsidy already comes from Council tax. I can't see the central government increasing its TfL subsidy enough to produce flat Tube fares in London, so the extra subsidy would have to come from London's council tax, or the flat fare would have to be set high enough to be revenue neutral. I certainly wouldn't vote for either of those options. |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:06:01 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
It's often more of a case of how big the subsidy is. Not unusual for some overseas Public Transport operations to run on the basis of one third fare box, two thirds subsidy. TFL costs about twice the farebox revenue to run, iirc (£5.5bn operating costs plus £2bn capital projects) versus £3.5bn. So not exactly "profitable". Thanks, Roland. I was under the impression that the bus services in London were operated by companies that were in it for profit. They certainly are in Birmingham, (National Express) where I live, and, unless you live in the more affluent parts of the city, or along traffic- choked corridors, the bus service is appalling. No wonder, really, when you consider that in excess of half of the bus garages closed shortly after the buses were taken away from BCT. -- Alex |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
Boltar wrote
Council tax wouldn't come into it. The subsidy is from central government. So what rate of income tax, or VAT, would you accept to pay for it? Should other public services - gas, electricity, telephones, water and sewerage, be heavily subsidised out of taxation? Peter |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:45:46 +0100, Peter Masson wrote:
So what rate of income tax, or VAT, would you accept to pay for it? Should other public services - gas, electricity, telephones, water and sewerage, be heavily subsidised out of taxation? The basic rate of income tax was 35% in the days when we had good public services. -- Alex |
Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
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Hayes & Harlington - Victoria/London Oyster Cards
On 20/09/2012 11:44, Alex Potter wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:06:01 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: It's often more of a case of how big the subsidy is. Not unusual for some overseas Public Transport operations to run on the basis of one third fare box, two thirds subsidy. TFL costs about twice the farebox revenue to run, iirc (£5.5bn operating costs plus £2bn capital projects) versus £3.5bn. So not exactly "profitable". Thanks, Roland. I was under the impression that the bus services in London were operated by companies that were in it for profit. They are. They certainly are in Birmingham, (National Express) where I live, and, unless you live in the more affluent parts of the city, or along traffic- choked corridors, the bus service is appalling. No wonder, really, when you consider that in excess of half of the bus garages closed shortly after the buses were taken away from BCT. Birmingham, and the rest of the country, works under a different regime. The fact that London has a different funding model was a tacit admission by the tory government that their method of bus deregulation didn't actually work. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
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