2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On 05/12/2012 13:48, d wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 13:08:18 +0000
Anthony Polson wrote:
d wrote:

I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.


Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not

Its becoming more common so perhaps we should cope. Anyway , that aside
there's no excuse for 4 lines going down just because of a teeny amount
of snow and a slight frost. Any well run railway should be able to cope with
that.

grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

There's no point spending a grand on winter tyres and wheels because you'll
just get to the end of your street then get stuck behind 200 cars that don't
have them. For it to work the government needs to make them law as in france
and germany.

B2003


And to make sure that people who do fit them don't find that their
insurers penalise them for 'modifying' their cars :)

G

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Dec 5, 2:08*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

Not just that, when the infrastructure was being designed and
installed, it was known that such low temperatures and regular
snowfalls would be a routine part of operations, so design decisions
were taken to accommodate them. This was not the case in the UK. An
example being the use of uncovered top-contact 3rd or 3rd/4th rail.
Fine in warm and/or wet conditions, terrible in snow/ice.

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. *That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. *Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

The other issue is considering the ballance between the cost of
providing infrastructure to deal with cold and snow against the cost
of everything shutting down when it snows. If it only snows a couple
of days every two or three years, it's cheaper just to declare it a
snow day and stay at home. If there's snow on the ground for 3 months
of the year every year, that isn't an option.

Robin

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On 5 Dec, 13:49, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:54:48 +0000

Stephen Furley wrote:
I don't know which roads he saw which were 'fine', no doubt there were many,
but my bus took about twice as long as usual to get me to work this morning.
About 1-2 cm of snow on the ground, except where vehicles had removed it.

People will naturally drive slower in the snow, but my journey was ok because
the snow seemed to have scared a lot of the usual school run muppets off the
roads so there was less traffic.

B2003

I have noticed that in the past when there have been dire warnings in
advance about how bad things were going to be, and they turned out to
be much milder than predicted, but I don't think there were warnings
yesterday that made it sound bad enough to put people off today, at
least not in my area.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Dec 5, 1:08*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. *That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. *Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

I'm not so persuaded by this, because it seems to me that every year
now we hear the excuse that "we don't get this weather every year"!

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

BrianW wrote:

On Dec 5, 1:08*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. *That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. *Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

I'm not so persuaded by this, because it seems to me that every year
now we hear the excuse that "we don't get this weather every year"!


For a period of 15 years we had hardly any snow in winter south of the
Peak District. During that period, when climatologists were telling
us that winter snow was gone for good because of climate change, how
persuaded would you have been by a proposal to invest many tens of
£ millions of taxpayers' money in snow and ice clearance measures for
the railways of the south east of England?

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 12:38:08 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

The Oslo metro (T-bane, Tunnellbane) have a raised third rail with a cover
where the contact is made on the underside.

--
jhk

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

In message , at 14:09:41 on
Wed, 5 Dec 2012, Anthony Polson remarked:
Snowblowers were purchased by NSE but after delivery we
had no regular snow for about 15 years so they were sent to Scotland
where apparently they have had very little use.

I can see the eBay advert now: For Sale, snow blowers. Not much use.
--
Roland Perry

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:12:41 +0100
Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 12:38:08 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

The Oslo metro (T-bane, Tunnellbane) have a raised third rail with a cover
where the contact is made on the underside.

That may be so , but generally its not the 3rd rail that causes everything
to grind to a halt. Its usually snow in the motors or signal failures or
slipping wheels or frozen points or something else from the Big Bumper Book
of Railway Excuses (available at a Christmas discount from Poundshop no doubt).

And its really not that hard to fit trains with some brushes and de-icing
fluid to keep the 3rd rails clear and if it really becomes a problem I can't
see why they couldn't just cover the 3rd rails and use a US style slat contact
instead of shoes. I suspect a lot cheaper than converting to overhead.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Dec 5, 6:22*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
BrianW wrote:
On Dec 5, 1:08 pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

I'm not so persuaded by this, because it seems to me that every year
now we hear the excuse that "we don't get this weather every year"!

For a period of 15 years we had hardly any snow in winter south of the
Peak District. *During that period, when climatologists were telling
us that winter snow was gone for good because of climate change, how
persuaded would you have been by a proposal to invest many tens of
millions of taxpayers' money in snow and ice clearance measures for
the railways of the south east of England?

In fairness, it was only supposed to be a light-hearted comment of
mine.