London Banter - 2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart

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2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 08:18:20 -0800 (PST), bob wrote:

On Dec 5, 2:08*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

Not just that, when the infrastructure was being designed and
installed, it was known that such low temperatures and regular
snowfalls would be a routine part of operations, so design decisions
were taken to accommodate them. This was not the case in the UK. An
example being the use of uncovered top-contact 3rd or 3rd/4th rail.
Fine in warm and/or wet conditions, terrible in snow/ice.

Chicago Transit Authority (the L) lines are all bare third rail and
they seem to manage during most snowfalls.

Clark Morris

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. *That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. *Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

The other issue is considering the ballance between the cost of
providing infrastructure to deal with cold and snow against the cost
of everything shutting down when it snows. If it only snows a couple
of days every two or three years, it's cheaper just to declare it a
snow day and stay at home. If there's snow on the ground for 3 months
of the year every year, that isn't an option.

Robin

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 07:29:04 -0800 (PST), 77002
wrote:

On 7 Dec, 13:49, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:19:45 on Fri, 7 Dec
2012, remarked:

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? *And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? *No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

Of course it would. The remaining moisture in the air would frost the
window in between brush strokes (which are only any good at clearing
snow, not frost and ice). Unless you are pouring de-icer continuously,
and one of the drawbacks of de-icer is that the alcohols evaporate and
make the glass even colder than ambient.

IIRC, TfL's predecessors used to coat the conductor rail with some
sort of grease during the cold season. The conductor did not ice
over. Arcing was much reduced.

You might be confusing de-icing fluid with Sandite used on running
rails. De-icing fluid used to be similar to dilute car anti-freeze but
has been replaced by newer stuff which does not wash off as easily and
is claimed to be "greener" :-
http://www.arrowvale.co.uk/component/content/article/61

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart