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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
I find the choice of this weekend to block the route from Heathrow to
central London particularly inconsiderate to passengers. I'm sure this is one of the busier weekends at Heathrow with people on Christmas and New Year breaks returning. There were a lot of people with luggage everywhere. I flew off on a holiday on 27th December with no mention of the works and got back this evening recommended to change at Acton Town and Ealing Broadway to reach King's Cross via the Central Line and Oxford Circus. TfL's Journey Planner suggested a journey time of 1 hour 20 minutes, not too bad. With no indication at Heathrow T123 we discovered the train we found and took terminated at Northfields. That is just taking the **** when the service was terminating at Acton Town anyway. It's not as if the frequency was high. The next train at Northfields was a 10 minute wait. Then the PA at Acton Town was directing people to replacement buses when the signboards were telling them to go over the bridge to get a District service from platform 2 to Ealing Broadway (as had the Journey Planner). The west end of platform 1 had stop blocks so was out of use. All that luggage would have been interesting on replacement buses! Does the signalling at Acton Town really not allow a District Ealing Broadway shuttle to and from platform 4? That would have allowed a cross-platform connection from Heathrow to Ealing Broadway, where there is a level connection to the Central Line. There was a huge queue for the Acton Town lift from people with luggage and little staff presence to help people with the disruption (none at all at Northfields). In the end our journey to Kings Cross St Pancras took and hour and forty minutes with four changes. Not good, especially with three large cases plus smaller bags, a wife with a broken arm and six-year-old granddaughter. Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or Connect as an alternative when there are blockages like this and why can't they avoid the busiest holiday weekends? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
wrote in message
... Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or Connect as an alternative They do, don't they? = or are you saying Heathrow Express wasn't running either? You had a number of options at various prices for the journey. You took a choice for the price you were prepared to pay, and that's the service you got. -- DAS |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Quote:
travel to and from Heathrow by car: their own or a cab. |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
wrote in message ... Heathrow Express goes to a useless destination made more so by the curtailment of the Circle service. More lengthy stairs without lifts at Paddington or Edgware Road. Though lifts like those at Acton Town with so many passengers with luggage around are also pretty hopeless. -- Colin Rosenstiel Assuming you mean Paddington, not Heathrow, I think the interpretation of "useless destination" rather depends on where you are starting from. Those served by the FGW network might find it quite handy. Cambridge is not, necessarily, the centre of the universe. |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith thisweekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
wrote:
I find the choice of this weekend to block the route from Heathrow to central London particularly inconsiderate to passengers. I'm sure this is one of the busier weekends at Heathrow with people on Christmas and New Year breaks returning. There were a lot of people with luggage everywhere. I flew off on a holiday on 27th December with no mention of the works and got back this evening recommended to change at Acton Town and Ealing Broadway to reach King's Cross via the Central Line and Oxford Circus. TfL's Journey Planner suggested a journey time of 1 hour 20 minutes, not too bad. Obviously a bad journey home, for which I sympathasise. I wonder, however, if you checked the TfL Journey Planner for the homeward journey before departing? I always do, especially if I hope to travel over a weekend, especially over the Xmas/new year period. |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
wrote in message
... In article , (D A Stocks) wrote: wrote in message ... Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or Connect as an alternative They do, don't they? = or are you saying Heathrow Express wasn't running either? They stopped allowing tube passengers from using HEx as an alternative ages ago. They also seem to have an awful lot of engineering possessions closing all four tracks between Hammersmith and Acton Town. However, the fact remains that the service was there and Colin *chose* not to use it. You had a number of options at various prices for the journey. You took a choice for the price you were prepared to pay, and that's the service you got. The best option by far for me with luggage is normally the Piccadilly Line. .... but only if it's running. It wasn't and, knowing this (complete with those three large cases plus smaller bags, a wife with a broken arm and six-year-old granddaughter) you *chose* to use the service that was on offer for the price you payed. Heathrow Express goes to a useless destination Hang on a minute, in your original post you said Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express -- DAS |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
Paul Corfield wrote in
: On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 10:37:46 -0000, "D A Stocks" wrote: wrote in message ... Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or Connect as an alternative They do, don't they? = or are you saying Heathrow Express wasn't running either? Not routinely. It only happens on limited occasions when travel options are very limited or rail replacement vehicles are in short supply due to the volume of work on any given weekend. Even then it is often only Heathrow Connect that can be used as HEX don't seem to want people overloading the Express service. I expect money is also a factor. Has this ever actually happened? It has been several years since Heathrow Express was allowed as an alternative and the 15 minute service was running as nine cars and basically full (but without much standing). Limiting people to Connect (a five car train every half hour) would cause gross overloading. David (Who suspects money is the main factor) |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this
In article , (Mizter T) wrote:
On 06/01/2013 00:03, wrote: I find the choice of this weekend to block the route from Heathrow to central London particularly inconsiderate to passengers. I'm sure this is one of the busier weekends at Heathrow with people on Christmas and New Year breaks returning. There were a lot of people with luggage everywhere. I flew off on a holiday on 27th December with no mention of the works and got back this evening recommended to change at Acton Town and Ealing Broadway to reach King's Cross via the Central Line and Oxford Circus. TfL's Journey Planner suggested a journey time of 1 hour 20 minutes, not too bad. With no indication at Heathrow T123 we discovered the train we found and took terminated at Northfields. That is just taking the **** when the service was terminating at Acton Town anyway. It's not as if the frequency was high. The next train at Northfields was a 10 minute wait. Then the PA at Acton Town was directing people to replacement buses when the signboards were telling them to go over the bridge to get a District service from platform 2 to Ealing Broadway (as had the Journey Planner). The west end of platform 1 had stop blocks so was out of use. All that luggage would have been interesting on replacement buses! Does the signalling at Acton Town really not allow a District Ealing Broadway shuttle to and from platform 4? That would have allowed a cross-platform connection from Heathrow to Ealing Broadway, where there is a level connection to the Central Line. There was a huge queue for the Acton Town lift from people with luggage and little staff presence to help people with the disruption (none at all at Northfields). In the end our journey to Kings Cross St Pancras took and hour and forty minutes with four changes. Not good, especially with three large cases plus smaller bags, a wife with a broken arm and six-year-old granddaughter. Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or Connect as an alternative when there are blockages like this and why can't they avoid the busiest holiday weekends? Who are "they" in the above sentence? If "they" are TfL, then do you think TfL should accept being held over a barrel by LHR Airports Ltd (nee BAA), owner of HEx, for the amount LHR/HEx wishes to charge to allow acceptance of LU tickets on HEx? (I understand the demand for recompense is rather significant.) If that is the attitude of the HEX owners then the sooner that farce is brought to an end and the branch integrated into the national rail network the better. You say you flew off "on a holiday on 27th December with no mention of the works" - just wondering if you looked out for any posters on your outbound journey? There would certainly have been mention of the works on the TfL website here (under "Future dates"): http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/default.html I did look at King's Cross St Pancras and Heathrow but only at notices in the routes taken by travellers like me. I didn't think I had to go and hunt something like that out. Perhaps it was a bad choice of weekends, but in a sense no weekend is a good choice given how busy Heathrow is. I think the point is that holiday periods involve more passengers with large amounts of luggage, especially in the winter and that, if the choice was unavoidable they needed to staff it up properly. Also, no-one here seems to have come up with a justification for short workings from Heathrow to Northfields. If it was platform capacity at Acton Town (which I doubt given the low frequency of the shuttle) TfL seem not to have helped themselves by blockading platform 1 there as well as the other works. And no platform staff at all at Northfields was just not good enough. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
wrote:
In article , (Paul Corfield) wrote: On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 10:37:46 -0000, "D A Stocks" wrote: wrote in message ... Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or Connect as an alternative They do, don't they? = or are you saying Heathrow Express wasn't running either? Not routinely. It only happens on limited occasions when travel options are very limited or rail replacement vehicles are in short supply due to the volume of work on any given weekend. Even then it is often only Heathrow Connect that can be used as HEX don't seem to want people overloading the Express service. I expect money is also a factor. Previous closures of the Heathrow branch itself has seen coaches used express from Acton Town to Heathrow because of their superior luggage carrying capabilities. Buses are still needed for the all stns service. No matter how you try to do it there are no convenient locations for rail replacement transfer in West London. Hammersmith - busy, overcrowded, overloaded bus stns, congested roads. Acton Town - local roads struggle to cope with the volume of buses, pavements too narrow for waiting passengers. Ealing Broadway - similar to Hammersmith but with less room in the ticket hall. Oh and a 1 way system past the station making drop offs / pick ups difficult. However the tracks and bridges on the 4 track section really do need work doing to them. Unfortunately you can't run trains while doing that. Is it really not possible to close only two tracks at a time more? The most inexplicable was the choice of such a busy weekend at Heathrow for a blockade. You had a number of options at various prices for the journey. You took a choice for the price you were prepared to pay, and that's the service you got. I am off to hide under a table as I can feel the wrath of Rosenstiel approaching! When I found out about the works (daughter's boyfriend tipped her off while we were away) and looked at the TfL journey planner from abroad it didn't seem an unreasonable alternative via Acton Town and Ealing Broadway. In particular it seemed to compare OK with any via Paddington option. Reality turned out to be rather different with the inexplicable decision to terminate Heathrow shuttles at Northfields and the abysmal lack of support for large numbers of passengers with luggage there, at Acton Town and at Ealing Broadway (best of the bunch). There was a tendency for what staff there were to hide in a room giving out occasional PA announcements with blank platform information screens. Actually, you were lucky that both lifts at Acton Town were working: judging by the Picc's Twitter feed, those lifts fail rather often. I wonder if reversing capacity at Acton Town was limited, hence the decision to terminate some of the shuttles at Northfields? |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In article . 174,
pleasereplytogroup (David Jackman) wrote: wrote in : I find the choice of this weekend to block the route from Heathrow to central London particularly inconsiderate to passengers. I'm sure this is one of the busier weekends at Heathrow with people on Christmas and New Year breaks returning. There were a lot of people with luggage everywhere. At least you weren't trying to come in from Uxbridge. The Met is closed as well.... Is there an airport there as well? My daughter came from Heathrow today by 105 bus to Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow Connect from there using Oyster. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In article
, (Recliner) wrote: wrote: In article , (Paul Corfield) wrote: On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 10:37:46 -0000, "D A Stocks" wrote: wrote in message ... Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or Connect as an alternative They do, don't they? = or are you saying Heathrow Express wasn't running either? Not routinely. It only happens on limited occasions when travel options are very limited or rail replacement vehicles are in short supply due to the volume of work on any given weekend. Even then it is often only Heathrow Connect that can be used as HEX don't seem to want people overloading the Express service. I expect money is also a factor. Previous closures of the Heathrow branch itself has seen coaches used express from Acton Town to Heathrow because of their superior luggage carrying capabilities. Buses are still needed for the all stns service. No matter how you try to do it there are no convenient locations for rail replacement transfer in West London. Hammersmith - busy, overcrowded, overloaded bus stns, congested roads. Acton Town - local roads struggle to cope with the volume of buses, pavements too narrow for waiting passengers. Ealing Broadway - similar to Hammersmith but with less room in the ticket hall. Oh and a 1 way system past the station making drop offs / pick ups difficult. However the tracks and bridges on the 4 track section really do need work doing to them. Unfortunately you can't run trains while doing that. Is it really not possible to close only two tracks at a time more? The most inexplicable was the choice of such a busy weekend at Heathrow for a blockade. You had a number of options at various prices for the journey. You took a choice for the price you were prepared to pay, and that's the service you got. I am off to hide under a table as I can feel the wrath of Rosenstiel approaching! When I found out about the works (daughter's boyfriend tipped her off while we were away) and looked at the TfL journey planner from abroad it didn't seem an unreasonable alternative via Acton Town and Ealing Broadway. In particular it seemed to compare OK with any via Paddington option. Reality turned out to be rather different with the inexplicable decision to terminate Heathrow shuttles at Northfields and the abysmal lack of support for large numbers of passengers with luggage there, at Acton Town and at Ealing Broadway (best of the bunch). There was a tendency for what staff there were to hide in a room giving out occasional PA announcements with blank platform information screens. Actually, you were lucky that both lifts at Acton Town were working: judging by the Picc's Twitter feed, those lifts fail rather often. Actually, after looking at the queue, I carried the cases up the stairs. I wonder if reversing capacity at Acton Town was limited, hence the decision to terminate some of the shuttles at Northfields? That was the claim which I find hard to credit given how long the waits were for trains at Northfields and Acton Town. The signalling didn't appear to allow reversal in platforms and the PIS was non-existent unless you could hear the announcements. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 14:22:00 on Sun, 6 Jan 2013, remarked: Whenever the news reports a "busy day" at Heathrow, the numbers they quote are usually extremely close to the average. Because most flights at Heathrow are full, and there's no slots for extra aircraft, there isn't much of a daily fluctuation. (From the airport's website, daily average 190k/busiest ever day 233k) The amount of luggage accompanying the passengers varies more I suspect. This is the winter holiday period. Business travellers carry rather less, I have a feeling. So the people with a problem are the tourists travelling business class with lots of luggage, rather than the businessmen who would otherwise be travelling business class with less luggage. Huh? Where did business class come into it? Certainly on my flight there was almost no-one in business class but there were a lot of people in Economy with a lot of luggage. I suspect your target audience would rather be seen dead than using public transport to depart Heathrow. You've missed my point entirely. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
wrote:
In article , (Recliner) wrote: wrote: In article , (Paul Corfield) wrote: On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 10:37:46 -0000, "D A Stocks" wrote: wrote in message ... Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or Connect as an alternative They do, don't they? = or are you saying Heathrow Express wasn't running either? Not routinely. It only happens on limited occasions when travel options are very limited or rail replacement vehicles are in short supply due to the volume of work on any given weekend. Even then it is often only Heathrow Connect that can be used as HEX don't seem to want people overloading the Express service. I expect money is also a factor. Previous closures of the Heathrow branch itself has seen coaches used express from Acton Town to Heathrow because of their superior luggage carrying capabilities. Buses are still needed for the all stns service. No matter how you try to do it there are no convenient locations for rail replacement transfer in West London. Hammersmith - busy, overcrowded, overloaded bus stns, congested roads. Acton Town - local roads struggle to cope with the volume of buses, pavements too narrow for waiting passengers. Ealing Broadway - similar to Hammersmith but with less room in the ticket hall. Oh and a 1 way system past the station making drop offs / pick ups difficult. However the tracks and bridges on the 4 track section really do need work doing to them. Unfortunately you can't run trains while doing that. Is it really not possible to close only two tracks at a time more? The most inexplicable was the choice of such a busy weekend at Heathrow for a blockade. You had a number of options at various prices for the journey. You took a choice for the price you were prepared to pay, and that's the service you got. I am off to hide under a table as I can feel the wrath of Rosenstiel approaching! When I found out about the works (daughter's boyfriend tipped her off while we were away) and looked at the TfL journey planner from abroad it didn't seem an unreasonable alternative via Acton Town and Ealing Broadway. In particular it seemed to compare OK with any via Paddington option. Reality turned out to be rather different with the inexplicable decision to terminate Heathrow shuttles at Northfields and the abysmal lack of support for large numbers of passengers with luggage there, at Acton Town and at Ealing Broadway (best of the bunch). There was a tendency for what staff there were to hide in a room giving out occasional PA announcements with blank platform information screens. Actually, you were lucky that both lifts at Acton Town were working: judging by the Picc's Twitter feed, those lifts fail rather often. Actually, after looking at the queue, I carried the cases up the stairs. I wonder if reversing capacity at Acton Town was limited, hence the decision to terminate some of the shuttles at Northfields? That was the claim which I find hard to credit given how long the waits were for trains at Northfields and Acton Town. The signalling didn't appear to allow reversal in platforms and the PIS was non-existent unless you could hear the announcements. Presumably there were two Picc shuttles and one District shuttle running into a station that normally has mainly through trains? A few trains do reverse there, using the sidings on each side of the station, but certainly not three shuttles from the west, so I'm not surprised that the capacity was very limited. What might have been cool would have been to allow pax to stay on the train during the reversal, thus getting them to the opposite platform without using the stairs or lifts, but I suppose that's not allowed. |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message , writes I wonder if reversing capacity at Acton Town was limited, hence the decision to terminate some of the shuttles at Northfields? That was the claim which I find hard to credit given how long the waits were for trains at Northfields and Acton Town. The signalling didn't appear to allow reversal in platforms and the PIS was non-existent unless you could hear the announcements. It doesn't. All moves have to go via the sidings. As the District would have been taking one for the EBY service, the Piccadilly only had two available and one of those would have to be available for Rayners Lane trains, leaving one for trains from Heathrow. Would it be possible for pax to stay on board during the trip through the sidings? That would save them having to cross via the bridge. Also, a more revolutionary thought, given how many pax would have wanted to do what Colin's family did, would it be possible to run a special Picc service from Heathrow to Ealing Bdy via Action Town, including an in-service reversal? That would help a lot of pax (including those wanting the Rayners Lane branch, who could change at Ealing Common), and would minimise pax over-crowding and bridge crossing at Acton Town. |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message , writes They stopped allowing tube passengers from using HEx as an alternative ages ago. They also seem to have an awful lot of engineering possessions closing all four tracks between Hammersmith and Acton Town. 'an awful lot' being two in the past 12 months? Really? I've not been that way since August/September I must admit. It does make the choice of this weekend odder. Or was last weekend the other? Last weekend was open from HAM to ACT. That closure was South Ken to West Ken and Edgware Road - Wimbledon (so ECT was totally closed to District trains) but the Piccadilly ran throughout. I wonder what was being done at Earls Court for all the subs-surface lines to be closed? |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote: On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 15:17:17 -0600, wrote: My daughter came from Heathrow today by 105 bus to Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow Connect from there using Oyster. 140 to Hayes & Harlington or 105 to Southall. Her bad memory. Boyfriend distraction probably. :-) -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In article
, (Recliner) wrote: Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: In message , writes I wonder if reversing capacity at Acton Town was limited, hence the decision to terminate some of the shuttles at Northfields? That was the claim which I find hard to credit given how long the waits were for trains at Northfields and Acton Town. The signalling didn't appear to allow reversal in platforms and the PIS was non-existent unless you could hear the announcements. It doesn't. All moves have to go via the sidings. As the District would have been taking one for the EBY service, the Piccadilly only had two available and one of those would have to be available for Rayners Lane trains, leaving one for trains from Heathrow. Would it be possible for pax to stay on board during the trip through the sidings? That would save them having to cross via the bridge. Also, a more revolutionary thought, given how many pax would have wanted to do what Colin's family did, would it be possible to run a special Picc service from Heathrow to Ealing Bdy via Action Town, including an in-service reversal? That would help a lot of pax (including those wanting the Rayners Lane branch, who could change at Ealing Common), and would minimise pax over-crowding and bridge crossing at Acton Town. Now you're being far too clever! It does surprise me that the signalling doesn't allow reversal in the platforms, given that Acton Works (as was) and Ealing Common Depot are adjacent. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 16:10:12 on Sun, 6 Jan 2013, remarked: Whenever the news reports a "busy day" at Heathrow, the numbers they quote are usually extremely close to the average. Because most flights at Heathrow are full, and there's no slots for extra aircraft, there isn't much of a daily fluctuation. (From the airport's website, daily average 190k/busiest ever day 233k) The amount of luggage accompanying the passengers varies more I suspect. This is the winter holiday period. Business travellers carry rather less, I have a feeling. So the people with a problem are the tourists travelling business class with lots of luggage, rather than the businessmen who would otherwise be travelling business class with less luggage. Huh? Where did business class come into it? You mentioned business passengers. Travelling at times other than the first weekend after the new year! Certainly on my flight there was almost no-one in business class So maybe the airport was quieter than usual. No, it was full of people in Economy with lots of luggage! Do keep up, Roland! but there were a lot of people in Economy with a lot of luggage. There always are. Not so much luggage in the summer. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message , writes Presumably there were two Picc shuttles and one District shuttle running into a station that normally has mainly through trains? A few trains do reverse there, using the sidings on each side of the station, but certainly not three shuttles from the west, so I'm not surprised that the capacity was very limited. What might have been cool would have been to allow pax to stay on the train during the reversal, thus getting them to the opposite platform without using the stairs or lifts, but I suppose that's not allowed. Were there three shuttles though? I'm not sure the Piccadilly wasn't shuttling from Ealing Common (to Rayners Lane and ?beyond). Anyway, three platforms were in use. I suppose the signalling can't cope with in-platform reversals? Not the signalling; the track layout doesn't allow it. What about the eastbound District track? Can't trains reverse there and get back on to the right line just before Ealing Common station? |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 12:14:15 +0000
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: Oh one point I missed. The Piccadilly would not reverse east to west at ECM either as that would require running via the depot reception roads and the Picc drivers don't have that route knowledge and would require a pilot. It was done a few years ago when work at Acton stopped them getting into the platforms. I can understand route knowledge being required for high speed trains or eurostars or any system where stopping takes an age - by why does a tube driver trundling along at 20mph need it? Surely he'll see any signals and sharp bends long before he'll have to brake for them. B2003 |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
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Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:22:58 +0000
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: Does he know how to respond to them though? Has he been given a correct route that it's safe to accept? Would accepting the route derail the train? Even if it's slow speed, the HMRI take a rather dim view of us Surely its a given that if the signal is green then its safe to move the train? Otherwise whats the point of having signals?? Some of the signals have 'local' meanings that only a driver with the appropriate route knowledge would know. We're only talking about a short diversion though, not driving the whole line. Though I suspect it cars were invented today some health and safety wonk would make a case for car drivers not being allowed on a given road until they'd been "trained" on it first. B2003 |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In article , wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:22:58 +0000 Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: Does he know how to respond to them though? Has he been given a correct route that it's safe to accept? Would accepting the route derail the train? Even if it's slow speed, the HMRI take a rather dim view of us Surely its a given that if the signal is green then its safe to move the train? Otherwise whats the point of having signals?? Some of the signals have 'local' meanings that only a driver with the appropriate route knowledge would know. We're only talking about a short diversion though, not driving the whole line. Though I suspect it cars were invented today some health and safety wonk would make a case for car drivers not being allowed on a given road until they'd been "trained" on it first. They'd obviously have to have a man with a red flag walking in front, due to the potential for harm to others from inattention or excessive speed. Nick -- "The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life" -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996 |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:14:28 +0000 (UTC)
Nick Leverton wrote: Though I suspect it cars were invented today some health and safety wonk would make a case for car drivers not being allowed on a given road until they'd been "trained" on it first. They'd obviously have to have a man with a red flag walking in front, due to the potential for harm to others from inattention or excessive speed. A red flag? Your joking. There would have to be at least 2 men - one in front and one behind - both wearing full dayglo jackets and helmets with flashing amber lights on them and warning sirens. And you'd need 2 men to sit in the back of your car so that when the 2 outside have done their regulation 30 mins they can swap over. B2003 |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 03:04:56 on Mon, 7 Jan 2013, remarked: Huh? Where did business class come into it? You mentioned business passengers. Travelling at times other than the first weekend after the new year! With the implication that they'd been substituted by luggage encumbered tourists- but then you said the seats were empty. There were few Business Class seats and they were not very full. The economy seats were full. Certainly on my flight there was almost no-one in business class So maybe the airport was quieter than usual. No, it was full of people in Economy with lots of luggage! Do keep up, Roland! Economy is always full of people with lots of luggage. The empty seats in Business Class is where the quietness arises. Luggage amounts do vary by season I think you'll find. but there were a lot of people in Economy with a lot of luggage. There always are. Not so much luggage in the summer. with the current allowances I think people have the same amount of luggage all year round. Evidence? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 03:04:56 on Mon, 7 Jan 2013, remarked: Huh? Where did business class come into it? You mentioned business passengers. Travelling at times other than the first weekend after the new year! With the implication that they'd been substituted by luggage encumbered tourists- but then you said the seats were empty. There were few Business Class seats and they were not very full. The economy seats were full. Certainly on my flight there was almost no-one in business class So maybe the airport was quieter than usual. No, it was full of people in Economy with lots of luggage! Do keep up, Roland! Economy is always full of people with lots of luggage. The empty seats in Business Class is where the quietness arises. Luggage amounts do vary by season I think you'll find. but there were a lot of people in Economy with a lot of luggage. There always are. Not so much luggage in the summer. with the current allowances I think people have the same amount of luggage all year round. Evidence? Heathrow Y class pax are allowed one free suitcase plus a larger and a smaller carry-on bag. Do winter Y class pax exceed this, or summer Y class not fully use it? |
Planned engineering work between Acton Town and Hammersmith this weekend
In message , d
wrote: Does he know how to respond to them though? Has he been given a correct route that it's safe to accept? Would accepting the route derail the train? Even if it's slow speed, the HMRI take a rather dim view of us Surely its a given that if the signal is green then its safe to move the train? Otherwise whats the point of having signals?? It's safe in one sense - there should be no conflicting trains and the points should all be locked in the correct position. It's not necessarily safe in every sense. For example: - If this is a District Line train, is the signal sending it to a tube line? - (Elsewhere) if this is an electric train, is the signal sending it to a line with no electrification? There are many more subtle cases: Some of the signals have 'local' meanings that only a driver with the appropriate route knowledge would know. We're only talking about a short diversion though, not driving the whole line. But, for example, the driver won't know where to look for the next signal, and on a complicated layout that is significant. Yes, this is LU so the train stop will get him if he gets it wrong, but that will delay things even more. You might want to read these pages on the topic of route knowledge: http://www.rossrail.co.uk/central/rknow.html http://www.rossrail.co.uk/central/rknow2.html -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
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