Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford changing
to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

1. Buy paper ticket LHR to Ealing, touch in at Ealing, change to Central line
2. Paper LHR to H&H, jump off train, touch validator, dive back on again
3. Westbound only: Paper travelcard plus BZ6 to LHR (does that exist?).[1]
4. Westbound only: Paper travelcard (eg Z1-3) plus Ealing to LHR addon

Where are the 'touch in' points at H&H - is (2) likely to happen without
waiting half an hour for the next train? Similarly, is a 'touch in' at
Ealing easy without coming all the way out of the station and going back in
again?

To make life more confusing, the Network Railcard discount applies to H.Conn
tickets on weekends, but not to Oyster. Presumably there's no 'LHR to BZ6'
ticket either (no, can't find one).

[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

And paper travelcards are quite expensive if you're only making one journey.
Would be cheaper to get a paper single, if you can get a Z1-3 single at LHR
(and the gates don't complain that it's never been previously seen)

Any better ideas?

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make life
a lot easier.

Theo

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

Theo Markettos wrote on 20 January
2013 17:35:08 ...
Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford changing
to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

1. Buy paper ticket LHR to Ealing, touch in at Ealing, change to Central line
2. Paper LHR to H&H, jump off train, touch validator, dive back on again
3. Westbound only: Paper travelcard plus BZ6 to LHR (does that exist?).[1]
4. Westbound only: Paper travelcard (eg Z1-3) plus Ealing to LHR addon

Where are the 'touch in' points at H&H - is (2) likely to happen without
waiting half an hour for the next train? Similarly, is a 'touch in' at
Ealing easy without coming all the way out of the station and going back in
again?

To make life more confusing, the Network Railcard discount applies to H.Conn
tickets on weekends, but not to Oyster. Presumably there's no 'LHR to BZ6'
ticket either (no, can't find one).

[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

And paper travelcards are quite expensive if you're only making one journey.
Would be cheaper to get a paper single, if you can get a Z1-3 single at LHR
(and the gates don't complain that it's never been previously seen)

Any better ideas?

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make life
a lot easier.

Theo

Why do you want to use Connect anyway? It runs only every 30 minutes,
and only from the T1&3 station. Take the Piccadilly Line from whichever
terminal you arrive at and change somewhere, e.g. at Holborn if you're
going to Stratford.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article ,
(Theo Markettos) wrote:

Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford
changing to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

1. Buy paper ticket LHR to Ealing, touch in at Ealing, change to
Central line
2. Paper LHR to H&H, jump off train, touch validator, dive back on again
3. Westbound only: Paper travelcard plus BZ6 to LHR (does that
exist?).[1]
4. Westbound only: Paper travelcard (eg Z1-3) plus Ealing to LHR addon

Where are the 'touch in' points at H&H - is (2) likely to happen without
waiting half an hour for the next train? Similarly, is a 'touch in' at
Ealing easy without coming all the way out of the station and going back
in again?

To make life more confusing, the Network Railcard discount applies to
H.Conn tickets on weekends, but not to Oyster. Presumably there's no
'LHR to BZ6' ticket either (no, can't find one).

[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

BZ6 to LHR is presumably for journeys from the west outside Greater London,
not for Heathrow Connect from H&H.

And paper travelcards are quite expensive if you're only making one
journey. Would be cheaper to get a paper single, if you can get a
Z1-3 single at LHR
(and the gates don't complain that it's never been previously seen)

Any better ideas?

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make
life a lot easier.

Indeed. As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end. It should be
incorporated into the London public transport network like pretty well every
other airport train service in the world.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Theo Markettos wrote on 20
January 2013 17:35:08 ...
Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford
changing to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

1. Buy paper ticket LHR to Ealing, touch in at Ealing, change to
Central line
2. Paper LHR to H&H, jump off train, touch validator, dive back on again
3. Westbound only: Paper travelcard plus BZ6 to LHR (does that
exist?).[1]
4. Westbound only: Paper travelcard (eg Z1-3) plus Ealing to LHR addon

Where are the 'touch in' points at H&H - is (2) likely to happen without
waiting half an hour for the next train? Similarly, is a 'touch in' at
Ealing easy without coming all the way out of the station and going back
in again?

To make life more confusing, the Network Railcard discount applies to
H.Conn tickets on weekends, but not to Oyster. Presumably there's no
'LHR to BZ6' ticket either (no, can't find one).

[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

And paper travelcards are quite expensive if you're only making one
journey. Would be cheaper to get a paper single, if you can get a Z1-3
single at LHR (and the gates don't complain that it's never been
previously seen)

Any better ideas?

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make
life a lot easier.

Why do you want to use Connect anyway? It runs only every 30
minutes, and only from the T1&3 station. Take the Piccadilly Line
from whichever terminal you arrive at and change somewhere, e.g. at
Holborn if you're going to Stratford.

The Piccadilly Line is only going as far as Acton Town from Heathrow at
weekends this month and I gather some are only going as far as Northfields.
It would have been nice if Heathrow Connect to Ealing Broadway had been
offered as an alternative by extending Oyster validity for the duration.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at 12:35:23
on Sun, 20 Jan 2013, remarked:
As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end. It should be
incorporated into the London public transport network

Given that BAA paid for it to be built, are you prepared to buy it off
them at cost (or some other larger figure)?

like pretty well every other airport train service in the world.

You are sorely mistaken. Premium (extra cost) services to airports are
very much the norm.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

wrote:
In article ,
(Theo Markettos) wrote:
[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

BZ6 to LHR is presumably for journeys from the west outside Greater London,
not for Heathrow Connect from H&H.

Possibly, I'd fail to twig that H&H is in zone 5 not zone 6. Though BZ5 to
LHR is the same price as BZ6.

I'd also failed to spot that West Ealing (zone 3 west of Ealing Broadway) is
7.40, which makes sense of the BZ3 fare.

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make
life a lot easier.

Indeed. As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end. It should be
incorporated into the London public transport network like pretty well every
other airport train service in the world.

Charge a special fare for HConn if you really must, but all this messing
about with paper tickets just gets silly...

BTW, anyone know what the interchange at Ealing Broadway is like between
HConn and Central? It's an over-footbridge job isn't it?

Theo

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On 20/01/2013 18:29, Richard J. wrote:
Theo Markettos wrote on 20 January
2013 17:35:08 ...
Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford
changing
to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

1. Buy paper ticket LHR to Ealing, touch in at Ealing, change to
Central line
2. Paper LHR to H&H, jump off train, touch validator, dive back on again
3. Westbound only: Paper travelcard plus BZ6 to LHR (does that
exist?).[1]
4. Westbound only: Paper travelcard (eg Z1-3) plus Ealing to LHR addon

Where are the 'touch in' points at H&H - is (2) likely to happen without
waiting half an hour for the next train? Similarly, is a 'touch in' at
Ealing easy without coming all the way out of the station and going
back in
again?

To make life more confusing, the Network Railcard discount applies to
H.Conn
tickets on weekends, but not to Oyster. Presumably there's no 'LHR to
BZ6'
ticket either (no, can't find one).

[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

And paper travelcards are quite expensive if you're only making one
journey.
Would be cheaper to get a paper single, if you can get a Z1-3 single
at LHR
(and the gates don't complain that it's never been previously seen)

Any better ideas?

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make
life
a lot easier.

Theo

Why do you want to use Connect anyway? It runs only every 30 minutes,
and only from the T1&3 station. Take the Piccadilly Line from whichever
terminal you arrive at and change somewhere, e.g. at Holborn if you're
going to Stratford.


You could also change to the Jubilee Line for Stratford at Green Park,
which has step-free access.

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On 20 Jan 2013 19:48:02 +0000 (GMT), Theo Markettos
wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Theo Markettos) wrote:
[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

BZ6 to LHR is presumably for journeys from the west outside Greater London,
not for Heathrow Connect from H&H.

Possibly, I'd fail to twig that H&H is in zone 5 not zone 6. Though BZ5 to
LHR is the same price as BZ6.

I'd also failed to spot that West Ealing (zone 3 west of Ealing Broadway) is
7.40, which makes sense of the BZ3 fare.

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make
life a lot easier.

Indeed. As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end. It should be
incorporated into the London public transport network like pretty well every
other airport train service in the world.

Charge a special fare for HConn if you really must, but all this messing
about with paper tickets just gets silly...

BTW, anyone know what the interchange at Ealing Broadway is like between
HConn and Central? It's an over-footbridge job isn't it?

Theo

Yes.
Rgds
JonH

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

"Theo Markettos" wrote in message
...

BTW, anyone know what the interchange at Ealing Broadway is like between
HConn and Central? It's an over-footbridge job isn't it?

If you are coming from Heathrow it should be a level interchange from
platform 4 to the Central line platforms. Going to Heathrow would require
using the footbridge.

http://nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/EAL/plan.html

Peter Smyth

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On 20/01/2013 18:35, wrote:

Indeed. As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end.

Hardly a monopoly.

No doubt they would be willing to discuss being bought out, for a
suitable price - see the various PFIs like Tramlink which TfL has been
buying out. Anyone going to put up the cash?

It should be
incorporated into the London public transport network like pretty well every
other airport train service in the world.

Lots of airport links are distinct from the general city transport
network, whether stand-alone operations like Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok,
pricey-even-by-local-standards like Stockholm or just charging a
supplement like Madrid Metro.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at
21:18:04 on Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

Indeed. As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end.

They've already sold Gatwick, and this week a sale of Stansted was
announced. What more can they do (in the London area anyway).
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message of Sun, 20 Jan 2013
17:35:08 in uk.transport.london, Theo Markettos
end.org.uk writes
Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford changing
to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

[snip]


Any better ideas?

The last time I went to Heathrow, I trained to Hayes and Harlington and
took a bus from there. I find the Piccadilly line trip to LHR from
Central London is longer than I want to spend on the Underground.
It was impressively fast on a Sunday morning.

Live travel information is available at http://m.countdown.tfl.gov.uk/a
rrivals/57303.

I think that stop now has a Countdown display, but can't remember how to
check.

Journey planner information is available at http://journeyplanner.tfl.g
ov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en&sessionID=0&type_or igin=stop&n
ame_origin=Hayes%20and%20Harlington%20Rail%20Stati on&type_destination=st
op&name_destination=Heathrow%20Central%20Bus%20Sta tion

You either take a 140 direct or an H98 towards Hounslow Bus Station and
a second bus from Harlington Corner.

I assume Heathrow Central. Terminals 4 and 5 are different.

I would not do Heathrow via Ealing Broadway and Acton Town as was
advised this weekend. It is step free at Ealing Broadway and there are
lifts at Acton Town.

Central Line to Ealing Broadway and continue to Hayes and Harlington
involves two stairways.
Hayes and Harlington station exit is by a stairway.
--
Walter Briscoe

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article ,
(Theo Markettos) wrote:

wrote:
The Piccadilly Line is only going as far as Acton Town from
Heathrow at weekends this month and I gather some are only going as
far as Northfields. It would have been nice if Heathrow Connect to
Ealing Broadway had been offered as an alternative by extending
Oyster validity for the duration.

Indeed, /and/ the northern Circle/H&C/Met/etc are out too on some days, so
HEx isn't much use either.

The Circle/H&C seemed to be running normally yesterday.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
12:35:23 on Sun, 20 Jan 2013, remarked:
As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end. It should
be incorporated into the London public transport network

Given that BAA paid for it to be built, are you prepared to buy it
off them at cost (or some other larger figure)?

Like the PFI companies and Croydon Tramlink? BAA have had an ample return on
their investment by now.

like pretty well every other airport train service in the world.

You are sorely mistaken. Premium (extra cost) services to airports
are very much the norm.

Examples? No premiums to the last two European airports I've used.
Admittedly Berlin Tegel was bus (at standard fare) not rail.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

I would not do Heathrow via Ealing Broadway and Acton Town as was
advised this weekend. It is step free at Ealing Broadway and there are
lifts at Acton Town.

Central Line to Ealing Broadway and continue to Hayes and Harlington
involves two stairways.
Hayes and Harlington station exit is by a stairway.

Anyone know what the Piccadilly service to and from Heathrow actually is
this weekend?

I tried looking at http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/ but loads of the
Heathrow trains seem to have nonsense direction information like "Piccadilly
train to Acton Town [265] (left Northfields, expected South Ealing in 19
minutes)". Still saying that even though nearer South Ealing 5 minutes
later. Some trains have no destinations other than "Piccadilly Train" either.

It's also only showing three trains between Acton Town and Heathrow which
seems on the low side.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

wrote on 20 January 2013 19:14:10 ...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Theo Markettos wrote on 20
January 2013 17:35:08 ...
Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford
changing to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

1. Buy paper ticket LHR to Ealing, touch in at Ealing, change to
Central line
2. Paper LHR to H&H, jump off train, touch validator, dive back on again
3. Westbound only: Paper travelcard plus BZ6 to LHR (does that
exist?).[1]
4. Westbound only: Paper travelcard (eg Z1-3) plus Ealing to LHR addon

Where are the 'touch in' points at H&H - is (2) likely to happen without
waiting half an hour for the next train? Similarly, is a 'touch in' at
Ealing easy without coming all the way out of the station and going back
in again?

To make life more confusing, the Network Railcard discount applies to
H.Conn tickets on weekends, but not to Oyster. Presumably there's no
'LHR to BZ6' ticket either (no, can't find one).

[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

And paper travelcards are quite expensive if you're only making one
journey. Would be cheaper to get a paper single, if you can get a Z1-3
single at LHR (and the gates don't complain that it's never been
previously seen)

Any better ideas?

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make
life a lot easier.

Why do you want to use Connect anyway? It runs only every 30
minutes, and only from the T1&3 station. Take the Piccadilly Line
from whichever terminal you arrive at and change somewhere, e.g. at
Holborn if you're going to Stratford.

The Piccadilly Line is only going as far as Acton Town from Heathrow at
weekends this month

Actually only at 2 weekends this month (5/6 and 19/20 Jan) and one next
month (9/10 Feb, closed Northfields-Hammersmith and Uxbridge-Hammersmith).
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

The Piccadilly Line is only going as far as Acton Town from Heathrow at
weekends this month

Actually only at 2 weekends this month (5/6 and 19/20 Jan) and one
next month (9/10 Feb, closed Northfields-Hammersmith and
Uxbridge-Hammersmith).

Ouch! How will Heathrow be served via Northfields? Or will they let people
use Heathrow Express/Connect this time?

later Not by the look of it though TfL's Journey Planner only offers HEX
by default. Excluding Rail the only alternative (1) is Piccadilly to
Hammersmith, replacement bus to Boston Manor and Piccadilly from there.

(1) apart from the positively wacky coach 504 from Victoria Coach Station
("TfL tickets and passes are not accepted on this service")

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article ,
() wrote:

later Not by the look of it though TfL's Journey Planner only
offers HEX by default. Excluding Rail the only alternative (1) is
Piccadilly to Hammersmith, replacement bus to Boston Manor and
Piccadilly from there.

From Kings Cross St Pancras which I was looking at it was actually
H&C/Circle to Hammersmith in fact.

I see there is also a rail replacement bus from Ealing Broadway to Boston
Manor with an impressive 9minute journey time. Another suggestion is to go
via the Met to Uxbridge and take the A30 bus.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

"Theo Markettos" wrote in message
...
Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford
changing
to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

1. Buy paper ticket LHR to Ealing, touch in at Ealing, change to Central
line
2. Paper LHR to H&H, jump off train, touch validator, dive back on again
3. Westbound only: Paper travelcard plus BZ6 to LHR (does that exist?).[1]
4. Westbound only: Paper travelcard (eg Z1-3) plus Ealing to LHR addon

Where are the 'touch in' points at H&H - is (2) likely to happen without
waiting half an hour for the next train? Similarly, is a 'touch in' at
Ealing easy without coming all the way out of the station and going back
in
again?

To make life more confusing, the Network Railcard discount applies to
H.Conn
tickets on weekends, but not to Oyster. Presumably there's no 'LHR to
BZ6'
ticket either (no, can't find one).

[1] Hmm, BZ6 to LHR does exist:
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
but it's more expensive (6.00) than H&H to LHR (5.20). OTOH BZ3 to LHR
http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=0...&rlc=%20%20%20
is cheaper (6.60 v 7.40) than Ealing to LHR.

And paper travelcards are quite expensive if you're only making one
journey.
Would be cheaper to get a paper single, if you can get a Z1-3 single at
LHR
(and the gates don't complain that it's never been previously seen)

Any better ideas?

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make
life
a lot easier.

Theo

Does Jubilee from Stratford to Waterloo, SWT to Feltham and the appropriate
bus to whichever terminal make any sense for you?

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

wrote:

Examples? No premiums to the last two European airports I've used.
Admittedly Berlin Tegel was bus (at standard fare) not rail.

Hamburg used to be premium fare bus or local standard fare bus to the S
Bahn, now it's just S Bahn at standard fare.

Geneva is standard fare to the airport. From it is free (ticket pickup in
the baggage hall), a wonderful piece of customer service given the usual
hassles of having right money on arrival.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On 20/01/2013 22:07, Paul Corfield wrote:

On 20 Jan 2013 17:35:08 +0000 (GMT), Theo Markettos
wrote:

Heathrow Connect doesn't accept Oyster cards (between Heathrow and
Hayes & Harlington). So what's the recommended method to make a journey
between Heathrow and somewhere in Oysterland, for example Stratford changing
to/from the Central at Ealing Broadway?

[big snip]

Any better ideas?

Sigh. If only Heathrow Connect was 'zone 99' or something, would make life
a lot easier.

From memory the validators at Hayes and Harlington are in the ticket
hall so you would miss your train - no dashing on and off the same
one. I think the FGW frequency is not bad at H&H so the wait might not
be too long.

There are interchange validators at Ealing Broadway so you can touch
in and out on the "interchange route" between tube and NR services.

If you were not laden with luggage and didn't mind the interchange I'd
simply get the 140 bus from H&H - every 8 mins and stops right outside
the station door. This is on the assumption that you're determined to
maximise Oyster card use and avoid ticketing nonsenses. Might be no
good if you're time pressured.


The 140 would be my recommendation too, what with it stopping right
outside H&H station on the road overbridge - see the bus spider map:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/maps/buses/pdf/hayesharlington-a4.pdf

For legacy reasons, the Oyster PAYG fare scale in use on the suburban
GWML is the TfL one (i.e. Tube rate), rather than the NR one. This means
that if you were to continue a journey from Paddington on the LU
network, you'd only be charged at the TfL (Tube) rate, rather than the
more expensive 'through fare' for TfL+NR journeys.

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at 16:46:51
on Sun, 20 Jan 2013, remarked:

Premium (extra cost) services to airports are very much the norm.

Examples? No premiums to the last two European airports I've used.

There's a premium on the metro to Madrid airport, and a premium "Airport
Express" train in Oslo. Stockholm has the Arlanda Express, Rome has the
Leonardo Express and don't forget the Gatwick Express.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at 16:46:51
on Sun, 20 Jan 2013, remarked:

As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end. It should
be incorporated into the London public transport network

Given that BAA paid for it to be built, are you prepared to buy it
off them at cost (or some other larger figure)?

Like the PFI companies and Croydon Tramlink?

Was Croydon Tramlink built to be a separate privately-operated line?

BAA have had an ample return on their investment by now.

They manage to cover the running costs, but I don't know how much of the
capital investment has been paid back.

It's also a bit complicated because the objective of HEx is to create a
visible up-market service, for people who would never have used the
Piccadilly Line, and thus most of the passengers are abstracted from the
roads, an important public policy objective in West London.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article

, (Neil Williams) wrote:

wrote:

Examples? No premiums to the last two European airports I've used.
Admittedly Berlin Tegel was bus (at standard fare) not rail.

Hamburg used to be premium fare bus or local standard fare bus to the S
Bahn, now it's just S Bahn at standard fare.

Geneva is standard fare to the airport. From it is free (ticket pickup in
the baggage hall), a wonderful piece of customer service given the usual
hassles of having right money on arrival.

The important difference could be airports with proper through routes rather
than dedicated branches. Zurich is now on a through route with standard
zonal fares. It has no Supersaver fares to Swiss destinations though. You
have to book separately to Zurich HB to get them.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
16:46:51 on Sun, 20 Jan 2013, remarked:

Premium (extra cost) services to airports are very much the norm.

Examples? No premiums to the last two European airports I've used.

There's a premium on the metro to Madrid airport, and a premium
"Airport Express" train in Oslo. Stockholm has the Arlanda Express,
Rome has the Leonardo Express and don't forget the Gatwick Express.

The Gatwick Express paralleling non-premium services of course. What about
Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
16:46:51 on Sun, 20 Jan 2013, remarked:

As I keep saying it's high time the evil nonsense of the BAA (or
whatever it's called this week) monopoly was brought to an end. It
should be incorporated into the London public transport network

Given that BAA paid for it to be built, are you prepared to buy it
off them at cost (or some other larger figure)?

Like the PFI companies and Croydon Tramlink?

Was Croydon Tramlink built to be a separate privately-operated line?

99 year concession wasn't it?

BAA have had an ample return on their investment by now.

They manage to cover the running costs, but I don't know how much of
the capital investment has been paid back.

It's also a bit complicated because the objective of HEx is to create
a visible up-market service, for people who would never have used the
Piccadilly Line, and thus most of the passengers are abstracted from
the roads, an important public policy objective in West London.

How successfully are they abstracted from the roads?

In any case this thread started discussing the situation where the normal
Piccadilly Line option is not available.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at 06:30:28
on Mon, 21 Jan 2013, remarked:
There's a premium on the metro to Madrid airport, and a premium
"Airport Express" train in Oslo. Stockholm has the Arlanda Express,
Rome has the Leonardo Express and don't forget the Gatwick Express.

The Gatwick Express paralleling non-premium services of course.

As does Heathrow Express.

What about Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels?

Paris has a RER station, a bit slow, but not especially expensive for
the distance. It doesn't have a fast train.

Brussels is very similar.

Amsterdam is on the main line, with a mixture of main line and suburban
trains. It's beyond the end of their metro. And while you can pay a
premium to use a "faster" train, in practice those faster trains aren't
that much quicker, so it's not worth it.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at 06:30:29
on Mon, 21 Jan 2013, remarked:
Was Croydon Tramlink built to be a separate privately-operated line?

99 year concession wasn't it?

I don't know, I didn't follow the project (although I got caught up in
some of the roadworks circa 1995).

BAA have had an ample return on their investment by now.

They manage to cover the running costs, but I don't know how much of
the capital investment has been paid back.

It's also a bit complicated because the objective of HEx is to create
a visible up-market service, for people who would never have used the
Piccadilly Line, and thus most of the passengers are abstracted from
the roads, an important public policy objective in West London.

How successfully are they abstracted from the roads?

Very much so, meeting the targets.

In any case this thread started discussing the situation where the normal
Piccadilly Line option is not available.

What they should do is put on extra "Connect" trains, and accept TfL
tickets. HEx is a red herring.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:58:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
It's also a bit complicated because the objective of HEx is to create
a visible up-market service, for people who would never have used the
Piccadilly Line, and thus most of the passengers are abstracted from
the roads, an important public policy objective in West London.

How successfully are they abstracted from the roads?

Very much so, meeting the targets.

Have they actually measured a decrease in traffic on the heathrow spur then
or are they just assuming they everyone who travels on HeX would have gone
by taxi beforehand and would never have dreamt of taking the piccadilly line?

B2003

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On 21/01/2013 12:56, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 06:30:28
on Mon, 21 Jan 2013, remarked:
There's a premium on the metro to Madrid airport, and a premium
"Airport Express" train in Oslo. Stockholm has the Arlanda Express,
Rome has the Leonardo Express and don't forget the Gatwick Express.

The Gatwick Express paralleling non-premium services of course.

As does Heathrow Express.

I'd dispute that - I'd say Heathrow Connect was quasi-premium - at
least, my take is that it certainly isn't "non-premium". Heathrow
airport is within Greater London, and if HC was genuinely non-premium,
it'd sit within the zonal system, and the Heathrow stations would be
within zone 6 (like West Drayton and Feltham stations). Instead, it
costs £5.60 just to get from Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow.

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On 21/01/2013 12:58, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 06:30:29
on Mon, 21 Jan 2013, remarked:

Was Croydon Tramlink built to be a separate privately-operated line?

99 year concession wasn't it?

I don't know, I didn't follow the project (although I got caught up in
some of the roadworks circa 1995).

It was 99 years - though this is now moot as TfL purchased Tramtrack
Croydon Ltd in 2008.

Press releases...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/7741.html

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/8733.html

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On 21/01/2013 12:58, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 06:30:29
on Mon, 21 Jan 2013, remarked:
[...]
In any case this thread started discussing the situation where the normal
Piccadilly Line option is not available.

What they should do is put on extra "Connect" trains, and accept TfL
tickets. HEx is a red herring.

No paths for extra Connect trains (either on the GWML, or in the
Heathrow tunnels).

HEx isn't a red herring, as in the past TfL tickets have indeed been
accepted on it (at, I understand, a very significant cost to TfL).

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 16:46:51 on
Sun, 20 Jan 2013, remarked:

Premium (extra cost) services to airports are very much the norm.

Examples? No premiums to the last two European airports I've used.

There's a premium on the metro to Madrid airport, and a premium "Airport
Express" train in Oslo. Stockholm has the Arlanda Express, Rome has the
Leonardo Express and don't forget the Gatwick Express.

Casablanca.

It doesn't look like a premium fare to a Western European being no more than
you would pay for any trip of a similar distance in your capital city, but
it's about the same price as 100km on the rest of the Moroccan network.

tim

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at 13:44:06 on Mon, 21 Jan
2013, d remarked:
It's also a bit complicated because the objective of HEx is to create
a visible up-market service, for people who would never have used the
Piccadilly Line, and thus most of the passengers are abstracted from
the roads, an important public policy objective in West London.

How successfully are they abstracted from the roads?

Very much so, meeting the targets.

Have they actually measured a decrease in traffic on the heathrow spur then
or are they just assuming they everyone who travels on HeX would have gone
by taxi beforehand and would never have dreamt of taking the piccadilly line?

I would have expected all those studies to be done, big airports are
very sophisticated about such things (even if the front line minimum
wage staff give a different impression some of the time).
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at 14:52:58 on Mon, 21 Jan
2013, Mizter T remarked:
In any case this thread started discussing the situation where the normal
Piccadilly Line option is not available.

What they should do is put on extra "Connect" trains, and accept TfL
tickets. HEx is a red herring.

No paths for extra Connect trains (either on the GWML, or in the
Heathrow tunnels).

So how is Crossrail going to work then? (And we are talking about
Sundays).

HEx isn't a red herring, as in the past TfL tickets have indeed been
accepted on it (at, I understand, a very significant cost to TfL).

One of the problems with that is people buying a "proper" HEx ticket (or
using a return half) feeling cheated and wanting their money back.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

Roland Perry wrote on 21 January 2013 15:42:48 ...
In message , at 14:52:58 on Mon, 21 Jan
2013, Mizter T remarked:
In any case this thread started discussing the situation where the normal
Piccadilly Line option is not available.

What they should do is put on extra "Connect" trains, and accept TfL
tickets. HEx is a red herring.

No paths for extra Connect trains (either on the GWML, or in the
Heathrow tunnels).

So how is Crossrail going to work then? (And we are talking about
Sundays).

They are rebuilding Airport Junction. It was originally built for HEx
to/from the fast ("main") lines of the GMWL, and the access to the slow
("relief") lines for Connect was cobbled together on the cheap. It
involves down Connect trains running on the up HEx line on the flyover,
and up Connect trains running across the down Relief line on the level.
It's being replaced by a proper grade-separated junction with access
to/from both main and relief lines.

Quite what will happen at the airport isn't clear. Crossrail planning
has assumed 4 tph Crossrail and 4 tph HEx. Crossrail maps have always
just shown "Heathrow Airport". At one time, the plan was to replace
Connect and terminate at T4, which never seemed very likely. How can
Crossrail not serve T5 when it's the main terminal for the main British
airline? The map on the Crossrail website that shows TBM progress has
the Heathrow destination shown as "Heathrow Central".
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:36:27 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:44:06 on Mon, 21 Jan
I would have expected all those studies to be done, big airports are
very sophisticated about such things (even if the front line minimum
wage staff give a different impression some of the time).

I can't see BAA - or whatever its called this week - producing a report
telling their shareholders that they poured money into a white elephant.
What is needed is an indepedent report if it hasn't already been done.

B2003

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

In message , at 16:37:47 on Mon, 21 Jan
2013, d remarked:
I would have expected all those studies to be done, big airports are
very sophisticated about such things (even if the front line minimum
wage staff give a different impression some of the time).

I can't see BAA - or whatever its called this week - producing a report
telling their shareholders that they poured money into a white elephant.
What is needed is an indepedent report if it hasn't already been done.

That's what auditors are for. (Not that they always do a great job, but
in this case hundreds of millions are at stake).

In any event, the number of passengers by each mode will have been
independently surveyed, so all that BAA are doing is crunching the
numbers.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Connect and Oyster
 

On 21/01/2013 12:56, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 06:30:28
on Mon, 21 Jan 2013, remarked:
There's a premium on the metro to Madrid airport, and a premium
"Airport Express" train in Oslo. Stockholm has the Arlanda Express,
Rome has the Leonardo Express and don't forget the Gatwick Express.

The Gatwick Express paralleling non-premium services of course.

As does Heathrow Express.

What about Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels?

Paris has a RER station, a bit slow, but not especially expensive for
the distance. It doesn't have a fast train.

Brussels is very similar.

Does Brussels have some kind of airport-weighting on the fares on the
new line?

Amsterdam is on the main line, with a mixture of main line and suburban
trains. It's beyond the end of their metro. And while you can pay a
premium to use a "faster" train, in practice those faster trains aren't
that much quicker, so it's not worth it.

Vienna has the City Airport train with premium fares, and ordinary
trains which offer 24 h travel for less than a single on the CAT.

A key factor is probably whether the airport link is on a route to
somewhere else (like Gatwick or Schipol), or a dedicated line funded
without taxing Hard Working insert name of country Families (like
Heathrow).

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK