BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

In message , at 09:54:18 on Wed, 19 Jun
2013, d remarked:
But they don't work with them closely - they may exchange a few sentences
at most during a departure and thats it.

There's the haggling for a departure slot, the taxi-ing, and at the
other end, landing. En-route they talk too.
--
Roland Perry

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

In message , at 09:50:45 on Wed, 19 Jun
2013, d remarked:
Most surprising revelation, that BA's chief Pilot had never been up
that[1] control tower before. I'd expect that someone in his position
would make more of an effort to build bonds between the various
professions at work.

How often do train drivers go and visit the signalmen at work?

I don't know, but considering how long it takes to learn to be a driver,
I'd hope they spent a few days with a signalman to get a feel for how
the other half lives.
--
Roland Perry

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:08:20 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 09:54:18 on Wed, 19 Jun
2013, d remarked:
But they don't work with them closely - they may exchange a few sentences
at most during a departure and thats it.

There's the haggling for a departure slot, the taxi-ing, and at the
other end, landing. En-route they talk too.

More to Swanwick than the LHR ATCs. I'm not sure who they haggle with
for departure slots -- probably it has more to do with congestion on
the airways and the destination airport, so it may not be Heathrow
Controllers they speak to. I think once they have their slot, the
local tower's job is to help them get to the take-off point on time.

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:09:24 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 09:50:45 on Wed, 19 Jun
2013, d remarked:
Most surprising revelation, that BA's chief Pilot had never been up
that[1] control tower before. I'd expect that someone in his position
would make more of an effort to build bonds between the various
professions at work.

How often do train drivers go and visit the signalmen at work?

I don't know, but considering how long it takes to learn to be a driver,
I'd hope they spent a few days with a signalman to get a feel for how
the other half lives.

These days, aren't the signallers more likely to be people in a large
windowless centralised signalling centres which are much like
Swanwick? I can't imagine many drivers visit such centres, or even if
they do, they won't spend a few days working in front of the array of
large computer monitors. At best, they may just be shown round once.

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:54:18 +0000 (UTC),
d wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:04:54 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message

, at 14:34:33 on Tue, 18 Jun 2013, Recliner
remarked:
As for her overall tenor, "over-excited" doesn't even begin to describe it.

Isn't that her normal style?

I have no idea. I've never seen her before. The closest I have, is

How can you have never seen her before? She's been virtually ubiquitous on
the BBC for about 5 years.

They should do. Both trades should observe the people they are working
with so closely on a day to day basis, in their natural environment, as
part of their basic training.

But they don't work with them closely - they may exchange a few sentences
at most during a departure and thats it. The people the pilots work most
closely with are the rest of the crew.

One thing the programmes show is how formal and jargon-filled the
communications are. As mentioned, they're designed to be succinct,
clear and unambiguous between UK controllers with regional accents and
pilots from anywhere in the world with possibly very limited English.
They aren't at all chatty and have very strictly controlled structures
and content.

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

In message , at 11:22:34 on
Wed, 19 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked:
How often do train drivers go and visit the signalmen at work?

I don't know, but considering how long it takes to learn to be a driver,
I'd hope they spent a few days with a signalman to get a feel for how
the other half lives.

These days, aren't the signallers more likely to be people in a large
windowless centralised signalling centres which are much like
Swanwick?

Yes, they are. But even more important that drivers get a feeling for
what happens there.

I can't imagine many drivers visit such centres, or even if
they do, they won't spend a few days working in front of the array of
large computer monitors. At best, they may just be shown round once.

Then that's very sad. I'm a great believer in understanding what's going
on around you, and being interested in the jobs of people who affect you
directly, in the way signallers and ATC do (for drivers and pilots).
--
Roland Perry

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:25:33 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:22:34 on
Wed, 19 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked:
How often do train drivers go and visit the signalmen at work?

I don't know, but considering how long it takes to learn to be a driver,
I'd hope they spent a few days with a signalman to get a feel for how
the other half lives.

These days, aren't the signallers more likely to be people in a large
windowless centralised signalling centres which are much like
Swanwick?

Yes, they are. But even more important that drivers get a feeling for
what happens there.

I can't imagine many drivers visit such centres, or even if
they do, they won't spend a few days working in front of the array of
large computer monitors. At best, they may just be shown round once.

Then that's very sad. I'm a great believer in understanding what's going
on around you, and being interested in the jobs of people who affect you
directly, in the way signallers and ATC do (for drivers and pilots).

Equally, do signallers have cab rides (or sim sessions)? Or do
drivers spend any time in maintenance depots or train
factories/rebuilders? And how much time do pilots spend seeing how
their planes are built and maintained? Or do ATC officers have sim
sessions? I suspect the answer is a negative in each case.

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

In message , at 12:40:39 on
Wed, 19 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked:
I'm a great believer in understanding what's going
on around you, and being interested in the jobs of people who affect you
directly, in the way signallers and ATC do (for drivers and pilots).

Equally, do signallers have cab rides (or sim sessions)? Or do
drivers spend any time in maintenance depots or train
factories/rebuilders? And how much time do pilots spend seeing how
their planes are built and maintained? Or do ATC officers have sim
sessions? I suspect the answer is a negative in each case.

As pilots are directly responsible for doing a visual engineering
inspection of their planes before every take-off, I sincerely hope they
have quite a good understanding of how they are built and maintained.
That's probably the most important 'crossover skill' on your list, but
all the others should be done to some extent or another.
--
Roland Perry

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:50:45 on Wed, 19 Jun
2013, d remarked:
Most surprising revelation, that BA's chief Pilot had never been up
that[1] control tower before. I'd expect that someone in his position
would make more of an effort to build bonds between the various
professions at work.

How often do train drivers go and visit the signalmen at work?

I don't know, but considering how long it takes to learn to be a driver,
I'd hope they spent a few days with a signalman to get a feel for how
the other half lives.

I know one of each that seem to spend a lot of time taunting each
other on twitter. In between discussions of Tea and Cake.

--
Mike Bristow

BBC2 "Airport Live" from Heathrow
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:40:39 on
Wed, 19 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked:
I'm a great believer in understanding what's going
on around you, and being interested in the jobs of people who affect you
directly, in the way signallers and ATC do (for drivers and pilots).

Equally, do signallers have cab rides (or sim sessions)? Or do
drivers spend any time in maintenance depots or train
factories/rebuilders? And how much time do pilots spend seeing how
their planes are built and maintained? Or do ATC officers have sim
sessions? I suspect the answer is a negative in each case.

As pilots are directly responsible for doing a visual engineering
inspection of their planes before every take-off, I sincerely hope they
have quite a good understanding of how they are built and maintained.
That's probably the most important 'crossover skill' on your list, but
all the others should be done to some extent or another.

It's more than just the visual inspection. Now that flight engineers are
long gone, pilots also have to do a certain amount of mechanical and
electronic trouble-shooting in the air, obviously helped by computer
systems and their colleagues at base. For example, in that recent case of a
BA A319 that had damage to both engines when the unlatched cowls flew off,
the pilots had to make some critical immediate decisions. Luckily, their
decisions were spot-on, probably helped by a decent understanding of what
was going on to their stricken plane.