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Freedom Pass - eligibility?
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Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message
, at 09:11:29 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: Freedom cards are cheap to administer, but would be a nightmare in your scheme: they'd have to be renewed annually, with a check that someone hadn't slipped into or out of the wrong category. The Taxman, the tax credits man, and enormous numbers of people administering various benefits manage to do it. We need fewer, not more, of the "enormous numbers of people administering various benefits". Arguably we need more transferability of benefit entitlements, which is why I suggested "taxable earned income below X" as a possible test for bus passes. Because the taxman is already administering that, and always will. But I agree about the plethora of administrators, and have never understood why the tax, and tax credits, people need to collect their own separate information and make their own separate decisions. Unless it wasn't a ploy to bribe those receiving the benefits, but a bribe to those employed administering them (to vote Labour). -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message , at 15:07:23 on Sun, 23
Jun 2013, Peter Smyth remarked: But then you could argue, why does a 60 year old banker who has taken early retirement with a large pension get free travel, when a 60 year old who is still working 40hrs a week on minimum wage gets nothing? Because the "free travel" thing is for the retired, not the employed. Looking at the retired person's wealth is a different test to whether or not they are travelling as a leisure pursuit. It may well be that the whole scheme is bonkers (like most of what NuLab did), but we are where we are... -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message , at 09:22:19
on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, remarked: You don't have to be wealthy not to qualify for benefits. The maximum you can earn that is disregarded is the same £5 per week that it was forty years ago. But wouldn't earning £6 a week just taper your benefits, rather than cancelling them altogether? -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:07:23 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Peter Smyth remarked: But then you could argue, why does a 60 year old banker who has taken early retirement with a large pension get free travel, when a 60 year old who is still working 40hrs a week on minimum wage gets nothing? Because the "free travel" thing is for the retired, not the employed. Actually the grounds for getting a Freedom Pass are Age or Disability. It doesn't mention employment/retirement status. |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message
, at 09:13:01 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: Roland is using his value judgments to restrict universal benefits, without appreciating that not everyone shares his values. Not so much my value judgements, as my interpretation of the value judgements of those who designed the scheme. But it seems to me that the free buss pass scheme subsidises a very specific subset of retirees - those who have made the lifestyle choice to live sufficiently far from the facilities they need to access that they require a bus, together with there actually being a bus service they can take advantage of. Those who made the lifestyle choice to live close enough to the facilities, such that they don't need to use a bus, are not only failing to benefit from the bus pass, but are likely to be paying higher taxes (especially Council Tax) and more for their housing, as result of being more central. Those who made the lifestyle choice to live far away, in a bus-less area, also fail to benefit from the pass. -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message
, at 10:40:57 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: But then you could argue, why does a 60 year old banker who has taken early retirement with a large pension get free travel, when a 60 year old who is still working 40hrs a week on minimum wage gets nothing? Because the "free travel" thing is for the retired, not the employed. Actually the grounds for getting a Freedom Pass are Age or Disability. It doesn't mention employment/retirement status. Currently; but that's a simplification of the original intention, which was to try to assist the mobility of the "poor and aged". Somewhere along the line, an assumption was made that all the aged are poor. The same failure may come home to roost regarding winter fuel payments. -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:40:57 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: But then you could argue, why does a 60 year old banker who has taken early retirement with a large pension get free travel, when a 60 year old who is still working 40hrs a week on minimum wage gets nothing? Because the "free travel" thing is for the retired, not the employed. Actually the grounds for getting a Freedom Pass are Age or Disability. It doesn't mention employment/retirement status. Currently; but that's a simplification of the original intention, which was to try to assist the mobility of the "poor and aged". Somewhere along the line, an assumption was made that all the aged are poor. The same failure may come home to roost regarding winter fuel payments. Yes, they're stupid. I'd suggest they be abolished and perhaps replaced by an equivalent increase in the (pensionable) old age pension. That way, the poor are no worse off, but richer pensioners are taxed on the benefit, as they are on their pensions. |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:40:57 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: But then you could argue, why does a 60 year old banker who has taken early retirement with a large pension get free travel, when a 60 year old who is still working 40hrs a week on minimum wage gets nothing? Because the "free travel" thing is for the retired, not the employed. Actually the grounds for getting a Freedom Pass are Age or Disability. It doesn't mention employment/retirement status. Currently; but that's a simplification of the original intention, which was to try to assist the mobility of the "poor and aged". Somewhere along the line, an assumption was made that all the aged are poor. The same failure may come home to roost regarding winter fuel payments. Yes, they're stupid. I'd suggest they be abolished and perhaps replaced by an equivalent increase in the (pensionable) old age pension. Of course, I meant TAXABLE old age pension. |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 23/06/2013 16:46, Roland Perry wrote:
But it seems to me that the free buss pass scheme subsidises a very specific subset of retirees - those who have made the lifestyle choice to live sufficiently far from the facilities they need to access that they require a bus, together with there actually being a bus service they can take advantage of. Those who made the lifestyle choice to live close enough to the facilities, such that they don't need to use a bus, ....will use the bus pass to go one stop. While moaning about the hard working person paying through the nose to travel 5 miles who is using "their" seat. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 2013-06-23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:13:01 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: Roland is using his value judgments to restrict universal benefits, without appreciating that not everyone shares his values. Not so much my value judgements, as my interpretation of the value judgements of those who designed the scheme. But it seems to me that the free buss pass scheme subsidises a very specific subset of retirees - those who have made the lifestyle choice to live sufficiently far from the facilities they need to access that they require a bus, together with there actually being a bus service they can take advantage of. Yes, your value judgements! Like that if a retiree does not live next door to their doctor's surgery, adequate shops and any other support they may need then they have made a "lifestyle" choice. What absolute rubbish! Eric -- ms fnd in a lbry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 2013-06-23, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 23/06/2013 16:46, Roland Perry wrote: But it seems to me that the free buss pass scheme subsidises a very specific subset of retirees - those who have made the lifestyle choice to live sufficiently far from the facilities they need to access that they require a bus, together with there actually being a bus service they can take advantage of. Those who made the lifestyle choice to live close enough to the facilities, such that they don't need to use a bus, ...will use the bus pass to go one stop. While moaning about the hard working person paying through the nose to travel 5 miles who is using "their" seat. Idiot! What about those who use the bus to go one stop because they have no hope of walking that distance? And it IS their seat, there are designated priority seats for those who would have difficulty standing for the duration of their journey. Or do you just approve of the fact that the world is full of mean selfish *******s (like you perhaps?), hard-working or not, who pretend to be unaware of the world around them and will only give up a seat if harassed into it, or not even then. Eric -- ms fnd in a lbry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
Recliner wrote
On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:35:16 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: [...] It's called "independently wealthy" and several questionnaires do recognise the concept. Not the ones I seem to get. In any case, I wouldn't call myself wealthy, just that I have enough to generate enough dividend income to live on comfortably. Congratulations, you are a rentier (it's in the dictionary) Rentier (1847) A person who lives on income from property or securities Bertie Wooster ? -- Mike D |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
Recliner wrote On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:35:16 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: [...] It's called "independently wealthy" and several questionnaires do recognise the concept. Not the ones I seem to get. In any case, I wouldn't call myself wealthy, just that I have enough to generate enough dividend income to live on comfortably. Congratulations, you are a rentier (it's in the dictionary) Rentier (1847) A person who lives on income from property or securities Bertie Wooster ? Yes, I agree I probably am, though I can't say I've ever been asked if I was one. Maybe I should volunteer that in future! Of course, unlike Bertie, the capital is my savings, not my inheritance. |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 23/06/2013 19:44, Eric wrote:
On 2013-06-23, Arthur Figgis wrote: On 23/06/2013 16:46, Roland Perry wrote: But it seems to me that the free buss pass scheme subsidises a very specific subset of retirees - those who have made the lifestyle choice to live sufficiently far from the facilities they need to access that they require a bus, together with there actually being a bus service they can take advantage of. Those who made the lifestyle choice to live close enough to the facilities, such that they don't need to use a bus, ...will use the bus pass to go one stop. While moaning about the hard working person paying through the nose to travel 5 miles who is using "their" seat. Idiot! What about those who use the bus to go one stop because they have no hope of walking that distance? Such people will also have to stand because the pass holder is using the seat. They are A Pensioner You Know, and not some scrounging disabled person - anyway, that passenger can't really be disabled, else she'd have a wheelchair. And why would a disabled person be travelling to work/university/shops, and not just staying at home? And just look at those **** school **** children. Shouldn't let them on the normal buses, they **** spoil it for every **** other person with their sitting quietly reading Metro/books. And did you see the bus driver? They should send Them all back where They came from. Did anyone see where I put my copy of the Daily Express? -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 23/06/2013 19:32, Eric wrote:
On 2013-06-23, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:13:01 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: Roland is using his value judgments to restrict universal benefits, without appreciating that not everyone shares his values. Not so much my value judgements, as my interpretation of the value judgements of those who designed the scheme. But it seems to me that the free buss pass scheme subsidises a very specific subset of retirees - those who have made the lifestyle choice to live sufficiently far from the facilities they need to access that they require a bus, together with there actually being a bus service they can take advantage of. Yes, your value judgements! Like that if a retiree does not live next door to their doctor's surgery, adequate shops and any other support they may need then they have made a "lifestyle" choice. What absolute rubbish! The place someone lives in modern Britain is pretty much a lifestyle choice. We don't have lords restricting their serfs' movements. Why does someone who lives near a useful bus route deserve subsidised bus travel, while someone who doesn't live near a useful bus route doesn't get subsidised petrol? (answers may include references to the frequency of buses in urban and rural areas, the likely voting intentions of urban and rural residents, and which government introduced the national scheme) -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 23/06/2013 15:03, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:34:58 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: Freedom cards are cheap to administer, but would be a nightmare in your scheme: they'd have to be renewed annually, with a check that someone hadn't slipped into or out of the wrong category. The Taxman, the tax credits man, and enormous numbers of people administering various benefits manage to do it. Up to a point. All it needs is the equivalent to the parental test of "does your child qualify for free school meals" which is one of those benefits above which are fine tuned day in and day out (and woe betide anyone whose child gets one more free meal than they are entitled to). |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 23/06/2013 12:08, Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:35:16 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:21:00 on Sat, 22 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: They just don't seem to understand the concept of someone who lives comfortably off their investments. It's called "independently wealthy" and several questionnaires do recognise the concept. Not the ones I seem to get. In any case, I wouldn't call myself wealthy, just that I have enough to generate enough dividend income to live on comfortably. Others might well call you wealthy though. |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message , at 19:32:06 on Sun, 23
Jun 2013, Eric remarked: if a retiree does not live next door to their doctor's surgery, adequate shops and any other support they may need then they have made a "lifestyle" choice. What absolute rubbish! Of course it's a "lifestyle choice". As is deciding to live either near a bus route or indeed anywhere there are buses at all (more than once a week on market day). People in London really have no idea what it's like in the provinces, when it comes to being provided with transport. -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message , at 23:22:45 on Sun, 23 Jun
2013, Mizter T remarked: I wouldn't call myself wealthy, just that I have enough to generate enough dividend income to live on comfortably. Others might well call you wealthy though. Yes, a lot of people would; but "independently wealthy" isn't a value judgement, it's a statement of fact. Someone who has no salary, no pensions, and still manages to live off their savings/investments, is "independent" of those forms of financial support. -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 22/06/2013 13:34, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 06:32:50 on Sat, 22 Jun 2013, remarked: I would not be surprised to either see the national scheme scrapped altogether, or associated with some proof (via your tax return) that you have actually retired, at some point before 2017. How would my tax return show whether or not I've actually retired? I'm not even sure myself! Any income from employment or self-employment. (Or perhaps, any "taxable income", which would give people their personal allowance as pocket money). Is being a councillor employment? Different bits of government seem to have different opinions. It doesn't have any hours for Child Tax Credit, for example, it disqualifies from JSA but it is taxed like employment income. I thought many councillors (Cambridge in particular) only claimed expenses. They aren't income. What's your salary (for want of a better term) from being a Councillor? There is a salary (essentially in the form of a basic allowance plus an allowance for each separate official duty performed) payable to a councillor. It is paid by the council to the councillor under PAYE and with the deduction of national insurance. Depending on whether the councillor has another job (some don't), the full tax allowance will either be applied to it, or not. It's no different from any old part-time job (subject to the fact that some do it full time). |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 23/06/2013 18:02, wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 09:22:19 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, remarked: You don't have to be wealthy not to qualify for benefits. The maximum you can earn that is disregarded is the same £5 per week that it was forty years ago. But wouldn't earning £6 a week just taper your benefits, rather than cancelling them altogether? Yes, but the taper is steep enough for a couple of hundred a month to lose JSA. Earn £6, have £5 disrgearded and lose all your JSA? You'd have to have been have been entitled to £1 a week or less for that to happen. Hardly earth-shattering, is it? |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 23/06/2013 19:08, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 23/06/2013 16:46, Roland Perry wrote: But it seems to me that the free buss pass scheme subsidises a very specific subset of retirees - those who have made the lifestyle choice to live sufficiently far from the facilities they need to access that they require a bus, together with there actually being a bus service they can take advantage of. I know retired people who use their bus passes in order to be able to simply get out of the house, eg, shopping in the town a few miles away rather than in the nearby village shops. I know other retired people who have bus passes and never use them, and yet others who have never applied for one. Those who made the lifestyle choice to live close enough to the facilities, such that they don't need to use a bus, ...will use the bus pass to go one stop. While moaning about the hard working person paying through the nose to travel 5 miles who is using "their" seat. My understanding is that except in London, the buss pass for those over 60 may not be used during the height of the morning rush hour. |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 23/06/2013 20:28, Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
Recliner wrote On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:35:16 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: [...] It's called "independently wealthy" and several questionnaires do recognise the concept. Not the ones I seem to get. In any case, I wouldn't call myself wealthy, just that I have enough to generate enough dividend income to live on comfortably. Congratulations, you are a rentier (it's in the dictionary) Rentier (1847) A person who lives on income from property or securities Bertie Wooster ? Almost anyone whose main retirement income is a private pension lives on income from property or securities. |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
Until that awful day when the earthen vase is shattered, the dry eyes see not, the cricket brings no relief, the savings are used for care, care and daily pin-down prior to the alchemical cosh. Oh fie!
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Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 2013-06-24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:32:06 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Eric remarked: if a retiree does not live next door to their doctor's surgery, adequate shops and any other support they may need then they have made a "lifestyle" choice. What absolute rubbish! Of course it's a "lifestyle choice". As is deciding to live either near a bus route or indeed anywhere there are buses at all (more than once a week on market day). Sorry, you are talking about people who are reasonably well off. Where a retiree lives is determined by parts of their life history, available funds and available housing, as well as issues like where the rest of the family is. None of this is lifestyle. Sometimes it leads to decisions involving available transport, sometimes not. Always a balancing act between needs, desires and what is actually possible. For many many people any "lifestyle" stuff is more than outweighed by the rest. They can't afford to get it "right" and even those who can may find that they have made the wrong choice. People in London really have no idea what it's like in the provinces, when it comes to being provided with transport. I live in London. I have also lived in the provinces (well, one of them) and I know what transport is like, including once-a-week or no buses. You should really stop making sweeping statements about categories of people, because you make no allowance for the exceptions, or indeed that you might have the general case wrong. Eric -- ms fnd in a lbry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message , at 18:40:58 on Mon, 24
Jun 2013, JNugent remarked: But it seems to me that the free buss pass scheme subsidises a very specific subset of retirees - those who have made the lifestyle choice to live sufficiently far from the facilities they need to access that they require a bus, together with there actually being a bus service they can take advantage of. I know retired people who use their bus passes in order to be able to simply get out of the house, eg, shopping in the town a few miles away rather than in the nearby village shops. That's the sort of lifestyle choice I was talking about. I know other retired people who have bus passes and never use them, and yet others who have never applied for one. If I had one (currently the qualifying date is receding at about 3x as fast as I'm aging) I would hardly ever use it. Because there's precisely no buses that would usefully reduce the walk to my local shops, even those half a mile away, and if I was going to the nearest big town (Cambridge) I'd probably pay the £3 train fare for a 15 minute ride 3x per hour; rather than endure the 60 minute bus ride, supplied only once an hour. By chance, the bus stop I'd use is right by the station, about 5 minutes walk away from my home. Those who made the lifestyle choice to live close enough to the facilities, such that they don't need to use a bus, ...will use the bus pass to go one stop. While moaning about the hard working person paying through the nose to travel 5 miles who is using "their" seat. My understanding is that except in London, the buss pass for those over 60 may not be used during the height of the morning rush hour. Even once upon a time in London. Hence the "Twirly" name. However, not every job has to start at 9am. -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 2013-06-24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 23:22:45 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Mizter T remarked: I wouldn't call myself wealthy, just that I have enough to generate enough dividend income to live on comfortably. Others might well call you wealthy though. Yes, a lot of people would; but "independently wealthy" isn't a value judgement, it's a statement of fact. Someone who has no salary, no pensions, and still manages to live off their savings/investments, is "independent" of those forms of financial support. Yes, they have "independent means", but are not necessarily wealthy by any definition whatsoever. And living comfortably is incredibly subjective, so it need not imply wealth. Eric -- ms fnd in a lbry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message , at 18:42:22 on Mon, 24
Jun 2013, JNugent remarked: Almost anyone whose main retirement income is a private pension lives on income from property or securities. But only indirectly. This discussion was about people who weren't drawing a pension (private or otherwise), [had no job or benefits], but did have *direct* income from property/securities/investments. -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
Eric wrote:
On 2013-06-24, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 23:22:45 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Mizter T remarked: I wouldn't call myself wealthy, just that I have enough to generate enough dividend income to live on comfortably. Others might well call you wealthy though. Yes, a lot of people would; but "independently wealthy" isn't a value judgement, it's a statement of fact. Someone who has no salary, no pensions, and still manages to live off their savings/investments, is "independent" of those forms of financial support. Yes, they have "independent means", but are not necessarily wealthy by any definition whatsoever. And living comfortably is incredibly subjective, so it need not imply wealth. Exactly. Independent means does not imply wealth. |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 24/06/2013 18:59, Eric wrote:
On 2013-06-24, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 19:32:06 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Eric remarked: if a retiree does not live next door to their doctor's surgery, adequate shops and any other support they may need then they have made a "lifestyle" choice. What absolute rubbish! Of course it's a "lifestyle choice". As is deciding to live either near a bus route or indeed anywhere there are buses at all (more than once a week on market day). Sorry, you are talking about people who are reasonably well off. Where a retiree lives is determined by parts of their life history, available funds and available housing, as well as issues like where the rest of the family is. None of this is lifestyle. Of course it is. Few people were forced into a specific job, at least this side of 1807 and they are all dead. People in Britain have been free to move around the country since more or less forever (in contrast to some other countries). And people didn't even plan for home-country wide free bus travel, as it is a relatively new thing. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 2013-06-24, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 24/06/2013 18:59, Eric wrote: On 2013-06-24, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 19:32:06 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Eric remarked: if a retiree does not live next door to their doctor's surgery, adequate shops and any other support they may need then they have made a "lifestyle" choice. What absolute rubbish! Of course it's a "lifestyle choice". As is deciding to live either near a bus route or indeed anywhere there are buses at all (more than once a week on market day). Sorry, you are talking about people who are reasonably well off. Where a retiree lives is determined by parts of their life history, available funds and available housing, as well as issues like where the rest of the family is. None of this is lifestyle. Of course it is. Few people were forced into a specific job, at least this side of 1807 and they are all dead. People in Britain have been free to move around the country since more or less forever (in contrast to some other countries). And people didn't even plan for home-country wide free bus travel, as it is a relatively new thing. Another piece of irrelevance from the self-avowed village idiot. It's not even funny. Perhaps you should find another village. Eric -- ms fnd in a lbry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
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Freedom Pass - eligibility?
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Freedom Pass - eligibility?
On 24/06/2013 20:46, Eric wrote:
On 2013-06-24, Arthur Figgis wrote: On 24/06/2013 18:59, Eric wrote: On 2013-06-24, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 19:32:06 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Eric remarked: if a retiree does not live next door to their doctor's surgery, adequate shops and any other support they may need then they have made a "lifestyle" choice. What absolute rubbish! Of course it's a "lifestyle choice". As is deciding to live either near a bus route or indeed anywhere there are buses at all (more than once a week on market day). Sorry, you are talking about people who are reasonably well off. Where a retiree lives is determined by parts of their life history, available funds and available housing, as well as issues like where the rest of the family is. None of this is lifestyle. Of course it is. Few people were forced into a specific job, at least this side of 1807 and they are all dead. People in Britain have been free to move around the country since more or less forever (in contrast to some other countries). And people didn't even plan for home-country wide free bus travel, as it is a relatively new thing. Another piece of irrelevance from the self-avowed village idiot. It's not even funny. Perhaps you should find another village. You are free to leave and find somewhere down at your level if the discussion here is too difficult for you. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote: On 23/06/2013 18:02, wrote: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 09:22:19 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, remarked: You don't have to be wealthy not to qualify for benefits. The maximum you can earn that is disregarded is the same £5 per week that it was forty years ago. But wouldn't earning £6 a week just taper your benefits, rather than cancelling them altogether? Yes, but the taper is steep enough for a couple of hundred a month to lose JSA. Earn £6, have £5 disrgearded and lose all your JSA? You'd have to have been have been entitled to £1 a week or less for that to happen. Hardly earth-shattering, is it? Not my point which was that allowing £5 in 1972 and £5 now have very different effects. I mentioned a couple of hundred a month in councillor allowances -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
In message , at 18:59:00 on Mon, 24
Jun 2013, Eric remarked: if a retiree does not live next door to their doctor's surgery, adequate shops and any other support they may need then they have made a "lifestyle" choice. What absolute rubbish! Of course it's a "lifestyle choice". As is deciding to live either near a bus route or indeed anywhere there are buses at all (more than once a week on market day). Sorry, you are talking about people who are reasonably well off. No. You can make the same decisions while living on benefits. Where a retiree lives is determined by parts of their life history, available funds and available housing, as well as issues like where the rest of the family is. None of this is lifestyle. While I agree that you can't live somewhere with no housing, deciding you want to live near the "rest of your family" (or these days it's more likely to be "near a small subset of the family") is a lifestyle choice. Sometimes it leads to decisions involving available transport, I think transport should always be one of the factors taken into account. sometimes not. Always a balancing act between needs, desires and what is actually possible. Needs and desires are the "lifestyle you want". For many many people any "lifestyle" stuff is more than outweighed by the rest. They can't afford to get it "right" and even those who can may find that they have made the wrong choice. People in London really have no idea what it's like in the provinces, when it comes to being provided with transport. I live in London. I have also lived in the provinces (well, one of them) and I know what transport is like, including once-a-week or no buses. You should really stop making sweeping statements about categories of people, "People in London" is an expression that means "most people in London", not "all people in London". I've lived in London, and also in five different places in the provinces [if we only count those I've stayed more than a year]. My most common lifestyle choice is not to live in a house in the very town centre (they'd be too expensive), nor to live in a large modern house on a soul-less bus-less estate two miles from the centre of town, nor in a picturesque one bus every two hours village five miles out in the countryside, but to find a house that fits my budget[1] that's between half a mile and a mile from the "High Street", and preferably on the side of the town with a railway station. Transport, and "getting around" the area was a very high priority in my choice. As a result the car sits on my drive most of the time, only going out about once a month. [1] Which is below the national average, and the average price of houses in most of my street is £160k (and most recently sold £121k), which is quite low for the Southeast. Versus £290k for the town as a whole [figures from Zoopla]. -- Roland Perry |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 12:07:41 on Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked: I'm still confused by your definition of "genuine retirees". You seemed to suggest that it could be defined as people not receiving taxable income -- would you have an age limit as well? Or would you only include people not receiving "income from employment"? So you'd not allow a 70-year old part-time worker to get a twirly pass? The normal reason for proposing such restrictions is to avoid a person with a twirly card using it was a subsidised means to "commute to work". the way the rest of the country avoids this is by (still) having the before 9:30 (or similar) restriction wouldn't that be a better way tim |
Freedom Pass - eligibility?
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