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Old February 22nd 14, 03:37 AM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Almost Terminal: Marylebone's Brush With Destruction

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:43:58 +0000, Guy Gorton
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:01:44 -0800 (PST), wrote:

An interesting article about plans to convert railways into roads, going
back as far as the '50s, and then more recent proposals for Marylebone.

"Looking at the frequent services operated today by Chiltern Railways,
it seems hard to believe that the rail lines into Marylebone were once
seriously considered for closure. Yet back in the mid-1980s
under-utilization of the route led to proposals to convert the line into
a dedicated bus route, with the site of Marylebone station being
converted into a bus station, or sold off to raise an estimated 10
million. Today this proposal and others like it - such as a plan to
convert much of what now forms London Overground north of the
river into roads - are mostly forgotten. Yet for a time the possibility
was very real, and London may have been left with a rail landscape
very different from that which exists today."

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...ad-conversion/

Not time to read it all yet but I was deeply involved in the campaign
to keep Marylebone open. BR on the other hand was deeply involved in
the campaign to close it, although in some aspects in a very disguised
and underhand way. One strategy was to keep incredibly inefficient
track layouts to lengthen journey times. One example is Neasden Jct
where line speed, outside the main rushhour, was limited to 15mph.
Now I think it is 100 mph. There were other examples too.
I will leave it that for the moment and see what develops in this
thread.

Thank you for being there and taking a stand. I was thousands of
miles away at the time. The prospect of Aylesbury being served by a
shuttle from Amersham was not a happy one.
--

http://www.991fmtalk.com/ The DMZ in Reno

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Old February 22nd 14, 05:56 AM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Almost Terminal: Marylebone's Brush With Destruction

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:37:45 -0800, Aurora wrote:

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:43:58 +0000, Guy Gorton
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:01:44 -0800 (PST), wrote:

An interesting article about plans to convert railways into roads, going
back as far as the '50s, and then more recent proposals for Marylebone.

"Looking at the frequent services operated today by Chiltern Railways,
it seems hard to believe that the rail lines into Marylebone were once
seriously considered for closure. Yet back in the mid-1980s
under-utilization of the route led to proposals to convert the line into
a dedicated bus route, with the site of Marylebone station being
converted into a bus station, or sold off to raise an estimated 10
million. Today this proposal and others like it - such as a plan to
convert much of what now forms London Overground north of the
river into roads - are mostly forgotten. Yet for a time the possibility
was very real, and London may have been left with a rail landscape
very different from that which exists today."

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...ad-conversion/

Not time to read it all yet but I was deeply involved in the campaign
to keep Marylebone open. BR on the other hand was deeply involved in
the campaign to close it, although in some aspects in a very disguised
and underhand way. One strategy was to keep incredibly inefficient
track layouts to lengthen journey times. One example is Neasden Jct
where line speed, outside the main rushhour, was limited to 15mph.


IMU not so much an inefficient track layout as the junction being
previously designed with the Amersham route as the main route, that
route now being the branching route.

Now I think it is 100 mph. There were other examples too.
I will leave it that for the moment and see what develops in this
thread.

Thank you for being there and taking a stand. I was thousands of
miles away at the time. The prospect of Aylesbury being served by a
shuttle from Amersham was not a happy one.

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Old February 22nd 14, 05:12 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Almost Terminal: Marylebone's Brush With Destruction

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 06:56:33 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:37:45 -0800, Aurora wrote:

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:43:58 +0000, Guy Gorton
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:01:44 -0800 (PST), wrote:

An interesting article about plans to convert railways into roads, going
back as far as the '50s, and then more recent proposals for Marylebone.

"Looking at the frequent services operated today by Chiltern Railways,
it seems hard to believe that the rail lines into Marylebone were once
seriously considered for closure. Yet back in the mid-1980s
under-utilization of the route led to proposals to convert the line into
a dedicated bus route, with the site of Marylebone station being
converted into a bus station, or sold off to raise an estimated 10
million. Today this proposal and others like it - such as a plan to
convert much of what now forms London Overground north of the
river into roads - are mostly forgotten. Yet for a time the possibility
was very real, and London may have been left with a rail landscape
very different from that which exists today."

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...ad-conversion/

Not time to read it all yet but I was deeply involved in the campaign
to keep Marylebone open. BR on the other hand was deeply involved in
the campaign to close it, although in some aspects in a very disguised
and underhand way. One strategy was to keep incredibly inefficient
track layouts to lengthen journey times. One example is Neasden Jct
where line speed, outside the main rushhour, was limited to 15mph.


IMU not so much an inefficient track layout as the junction being
previously designed with the Amersham route as the main route, that
route now being the branching route.

True of the latest improvements but the slow feature was caused by
switching out Blind Lane box outside rush-hour. That meant that all
trains had to use the platform road at Wembley and the access to that
at Neasden was through one turnout away from the Amersham route, then
another towards the platform road and finally through a double slip
taking the right-hand switched route (straight through led to
sidings). I think the limit may have been less that 15mph - perhaps
5 or 10.
Everything was done to make the journey slow and nothing was done to
minimise the cost of maintaining expensive trackwork. That helped the
case for closure, of course.
As soon as BR lost the battle, many improvements came along quickly.

Now I think it is 100 mph. There were other examples too.
I will leave it that for the moment and see what develops in this
thread.

Thank you for being there and taking a stand. I was thousands of
miles away at the time. The prospect of Aylesbury being served by a
shuttle from Amersham was not a happy one.



Guy Gorton
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Old February 22nd 14, 07:18 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Almost Terminal: Marylebone's Brush With Destruction

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:52:42 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, 22 February 2014 18:12:28 UTC, Guy Gorton wrote:

True of the latest improvements but the slow feature was caused by

switching out Blind Lane box outside rush-hour. That meant that all

trains had to use the platform road at Wembley and the access to that

at Neasden was through one turnout away from the Amersham route, then

another towards the platform road and finally through a double slip

taking the right-hand switched route (straight through led to

sidings). I think the limit may have been less that 15mph - perhaps

5 or 10.

Everything was done to make the journey slow and nothing was done to

minimise the cost of maintaining expensive trackwork. That helped the

case for closure, of course.

As soon as BR lost the battle, many improvements came along quickly.


Although in fairness, that was rationalised before the closure proposal;
my first journey on the line was in 1984 and I am sure by then the
track layout between Neasden and Wembley had been simplified
so that there was a simple double junction to the down Northolt
line and the through roads at Wembley, all associated pointwork and
Blind Lane box had gone. The earliest photo I have of Wembley
Stadium station (as it had then become) station dates from 1987:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6053903...57627539951478

It can clearly be seen that the track layout had been rationalised by then.


Happily Blind Lane Signal Box is now preserved at Rothley on the GCR.
--

http://www.991fmtalk.com/ The DMZ in Reno
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Old February 22nd 14, 10:08 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Posts: 84
Default Almost Terminal: Marylebone's Brush With Destruction

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:52:42 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, 22 February 2014 18:12:28 UTC, Guy Gorton wrote:

True of the latest improvements but the slow feature was caused by

switching out Blind Lane box outside rush-hour. That meant that all

trains had to use the platform road at Wembley and the access to that

at Neasden was through one turnout away from the Amersham route, then

another towards the platform road and finally through a double slip

taking the right-hand switched route (straight through led to

sidings). I think the limit may have been less that 15mph - perhaps

5 or 10.

Everything was done to make the journey slow and nothing was done to

minimise the cost of maintaining expensive trackwork. That helped the

case for closure, of course.

As soon as BR lost the battle, many improvements came along quickly.


Although in fairness, that was rationalised before
the closure proposal; my
first journey on the line was in 1984 and I am sure by
then the track layout between Neasden and Wembley
had been simplified so that there was a simple double
unction to the down Northolt line and the through roads at
Wembley, all associated pointwork and Blind Lane box
had gone. The earliest photo I have of Wembley
Stadium station (as it had then become) station dates from 1987:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6053903...57627539951478

It can clearly be seen that the track layout had been rationalised by then.


That series of photographs on flickr is full of interest. I manage
Great Central, and Metropolitan Railway pages on Google Plus. May I
have your permission to add your photographs?
--

http://www.991fmtalk.com/ The DMZ in Reno


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Old February 23rd 14, 01:04 AM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Posts: 300
Default Almost Terminal: Marylebone's Brush With Destruction

On 2014\02\22 20:18, Aurora wrote:

Happily Blind Lane


!!!

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Old February 23rd 14, 08:18 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Posts: 1,111
Default Almost Terminal: Marylebone's Brush With Destruction

On 22/02/2014 23:08, Aurora wrote:

That series of photographs on flickr is full of interest. I manage
Great Central, and Metropolitan Railway pages on Google Plus.


Hold on - someone is actually, intentionally, using Google Plus for
something?


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK


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