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| London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London. |
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#1
April 4th 14, 09:26 AM
posted to uk.transport.london
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London Crossrail to Reading
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Apr 2014 18:34:26 -0500, wrote: I seem to remember running into that problem trying to do Highbury and Islington to Clapham Junction too. You shouldn't run in to that problem because there are only 3 fares. The default fare is on the TfL tariff and is priced avoiding Zone 1 regardless of which way round you go - via Peckham or via Willesden. As there are through trains there is no way that TfL can determine which route you took which is why the Overground fare is route agnostic for Highbury - Clapham Junction. Even though, if you go via Peckham Rye you do go through Zone 1 at Shoreditch High Street. Peter |
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#3
April 4th 14, 11:22 PM
posted to uk.transport.london
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London Crossrail to Reading
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote: On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 07:15:41 -0500, wrote: That's the trouble. I was actually going to Putney, not Clapham Junction I now recall, and that has no Highbury fare not via Zone 1 even though that was the way I went. I'd touched the pink validator at Willesden Junction too. Well yes you would be caught by that. The alternative is to go on the Overground to West Brompton, change to the District and touch the pink validator on the interchange route and then alight at East Putney (closeish to Putney but possibly not as convenient for you). That is a defined route in the Fares Finder. You have to comply with the Fare Finder in terms of where to change and touch. You can't invent your own route validator touches as it won't align with the ticket routing and charging logic held by gates or validators at the exit station. East Putney would have been as good as Putney as it happens. It didn't occur to me to change at West Brompton for some reason. I think I actually wanted to travel by LO to Clapham Junction. Are you saying that touching the pink validator at Willesden Junction wouldn't be good enough to prove a not-via-Zone 1 route between Highbury & Islington and East Putney? How on earth are passengers meant to know they have to touch a particular pink validator? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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#4
April 5th 14, 12:41 AM
posted to uk.transport.london
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London Crossrail to Reading
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote: On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 18:22:31 -0500, wrote: Are you saying that touching the pink validator at Willesden Junction wouldn't be good enough to prove a not-via-Zone 1 route between Highbury & Islington and East Putney? How on earth are passengers meant to know they have to touch a particular pink validator? Yes that is exactly what I am saying. TfL have defined the default and alternative routes and fares in the Single Fare Finder. Some origin and destination pairs only have one default fare. Clearly adjacent stations or all stations in zone 1 will typically have just 1 fare. As you spread out from Zone 1 and in particular touch where the Overground network comes into play then the number of routes can increase. If you travel through Zone 1 on PAYG and travel on NR routes and NR termini and change to the tube then you'll pay a higher fare than if just using the tube network was an option. As I have shown in previous posts even where route options exist on the rail network TfL may not have specified any alternative fares. This means you're charged for Zone 1 even if you do not travel through it. Passengers have to check the single fare finder to avoid falling foul of the system. You must comply with the route and validation requirements are set out by TfL - especially if you want to pay a lower fare. I have lost count of the times when I have had to check using a smartphone whether the route I wanted to take, even when in the zones I hold on my Oyster Card, was valid and what the validation rules were. The old TfL website was very smartphone unfriendly on the Single Fares Finder and it could be very frustrating trying to find the requisite information. I have yet to test out the new site whilst "on the move". Ironically the new Fares Finder does not have Wandsworth Road Overground station in it. If you have a Travelcard valid in Zone 1 then route options tend not to be an issue. If you are using PAYG and are willing to pay for Zone 1 then there's nothing to worry about. But why does touching on the pink validator at Willesden Junction not prove a route avoiding zone 1 has been used between Highbury and Islington and Clapham Junction? I thought that was the point of pink validators? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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#5
April 5th 14, 01:53 PM
posted to uk.transport.london
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London Crossrail to Reading
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote: On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 19:41:08 -0500, wrote: In article , (Paul Corfield) wrote: On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 18:22:31 -0500, wrote: Are you saying that touching the pink validator at Willesden Junction wouldn't be good enough to prove a not-via-Zone 1 route between Highbury & Islington and East Putney? How on earth are passengers meant to know they have to touch a particular pink validator? Yes that is exactly what I am saying. TfL have defined the default and alternative routes and fares in the Single Fare Finder. Some origin and destination pairs only have one default fare. Clearly adjacent stations or all stations in zone 1 will typically have just 1 fare. As you spread out from Zone 1 and in particular touch where the Overground network comes into play then the number of routes can increase. If you travel through Zone 1 on PAYG and travel on NR routes and NR termini and change to the tube then you'll pay a higher fare than if just using the tube network was an option. As I have shown in previous posts even where route options exist on the rail network TfL may not have specified any alternative fares. This means you're charged for Zone 1 even if you do not travel through it. Passengers have to check the single fare finder to avoid falling foul of the system. You must comply with the route and validation requirements are set out by TfL - especially if you want to pay a lower fare. I have lost count of the times when I have had to check using a smartphone whether the route I wanted to take, even when in the zones I hold on my Oyster Card, was valid and what the validation rules were. The old TfL website was very smartphone unfriendly on the Single Fares Finder and it could be very frustrating trying to find the requisite information. I have yet to test out the new site whilst "on the move". Ironically the new Fares Finder does not have Wandsworth Road Overground station in it. If you have a Travelcard valid in Zone 1 then route options tend not to be an issue. If you are using PAYG and are willing to pay for Zone 1 then there's nothing to worry about. But why does touching on the pink validator at Willesden Junction not prove a route avoiding zone 1 has been used between Highbury and Islington and Clapham Junction? I thought that was the point of pink validators? Because there is a through train service from Highbury to Clapham and TfL do not set pink validator touches at locations where people would have to get off a train in order to comply. The pink validators at Will Jnc are on the walking interchange route between the Watford Line and the NLL / WLL and are used to register non Z1 trips using those routes. The point here, and please don't shoot the messenger, is that TfL define the touches they expect to see in order to trigger the reduced fare. I assume that the fare tables used by gates define the location codes the gate will expect to see in the Oyster card journey history data. Thanks for the explanation. The system isn't exactly transparent. I was in fact interchanging at Willesden Junction because I got there on a Richmond train. So, when I goto West Dulwich next week, there is no point in looking for a far avoiding Zone 1 because there won't be one? It says "Some journeys are charged via Zone 1 irrespective of the route taken" in the single fare finder. I'm going to get a paper Day Travelcard on this occasion and avoid any hassle. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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#6
April 7th 14, 06:23 PM
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London Crossrail to Reading
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#7
April 7th 14, 11:26 PM
posted to uk.transport.london
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London Crossrail to Reading
In article , (Mizter T) wrote:
On 05/04/2014 14:53, wrote: [...] Thanks for the explanation. The system isn't exactly transparent. I was in fact interchanging at Willesden Junction because I got there on a Richmond train. So, when I goto West Dulwich next week, there is no point in looking for a far avoiding Zone 1 because there won't be one? It says "Some journeys are charged via Zone 1 irrespective of the route taken" in the single fare finder. I'm going to get a paper Day Travelcard on this occasion and avoid any hassle. You can look for yourself using the TfL fare finder: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/single-fare-finder But (UIVMM) there's no avoiding z1 fare to those parts. The system is all about set fares - the fare finder shows what fare options (and route), if any, are available for a journey between any two stations. You can't just freestyle it! So when they say the fares are zonal they are basically lying. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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