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Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
For the last few days I've been using a PAYG Oyster card instead of my
normal paper Travelcard. I did one of my usual journeys - tube from Waterloo to Balham, then train to Thornton Heath - on Wednesday evening. But the Oyster card reader at Balham didn't work properly. The gate opened but didn't record my touch-out, so I've got an unresolved journey. TfL, despite knowing my email address because that's what I use to sign in to their website to make sure they haven't ripped me off, couldn't be bothered to notify me. I only know about the unresolved journey because I don't trust Oyster and went and checked. And of course I can't submit my claim for a refund using my normal web browser which works on every other site. I have to use Firefox instead. It remains to be seen whether I actually end up being charged the right amount or not. And, of course, I have to use Oyster again to pick up my refund. I didn't see any option on the website for "refund my credit card" or "send me a cheque", they just blithely assume that I use Oyster all the time, when in fact I was planning on getting a Travelcard again on Tuesday and not using the trains at all this weekend. -- David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders" More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Friday, 18 April 2014 16:56:11 UTC+1, David Cantrell wrote:
TfL, despite knowing my email address because that's what I use to sign in to their website to make sure they haven't ripped me off, couldn't be bothered to notify me. I only know about the unresolved journey because I don't trust Oyster and went and checked. Perhaps the guy who is paid to monitor your usage was off for Easter. I didn't see any option on the website for "refund my credit card" or "send me a cheque", they just blithely assume that I use Oyster all the time They probably mentioned your case in the Thursday-night meeting at Pier Walk. Almost certainly they discussed sending cheques and refunding credit cards and probably a dozen other options. We won't know how they reached their decision until 2064. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 16:56:11 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote: For the last few days I've been using a PAYG Oyster card instead of my normal paper Travelcard. I did one of my usual journeys - tube from Waterloo to Balham, then train to Thornton Heath - on Wednesday evening. But the Oyster card reader at Balham didn't work properly. The gate opened but didn't record my touch-out, so I've got an unresolved journey. TfL, despite knowing my email address because that's what I use to sign in to their website to make sure they haven't ripped me off, couldn't be bothered to notify me. I only know about the unresolved journey because I don't trust Oyster and went and checked. And of course I can't submit my claim for a refund using my normal web browser which works on every other site. I have to use Firefox instead. It remains to be seen whether I actually end up being charged the right amount or not. And, of course, I have to use Oyster again to pick up my refund. I didn't see any option on the website for "refund my credit card" or "send me a cheque", they just blithely assume that I use Oyster all the time, when in fact I was planning on getting a Travelcard again on Tuesday and not using the trains at all this weekend. Sounds like what my Australian former flatmate used to call 'Pommie over-reaction'. Tens of thousands of passengers use Oyster every day without incident. It is a hugely useful facility. When I had a difficulty (my own fault) it was corrected very quickly. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
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Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Friday, 18 April 2014 16:56:11 UTC+1, David Cantrell wrote:
For the last few days I've been using a PAYG Oyster card instead of my normal paper Travelcard. I did one of my usual journeys - tube from Waterloo to Balham, then train to Thornton Heath - on Wednesday evening. But the Oyster card reader at Balham didn't work properly. The gate opened but didn't record my touch-out, so I've got an unresolved journey. TfL, despite knowing my email address because that's what I use to sign in to their website to make sure they haven't ripped me off, couldn't be bothered to notify me. I only know about the unresolved journey because I don't trust Oyster and went and checked. And of course I can't submit my claim for a refund using my normal web browser which works on every other site. I have to use Firefox instead. It remains to be seen whether I actually end up being charged the right amount or not. And, of course, I have to use Oyster again to pick up my refund. I didn't see any option on the website for "refund my credit card" or "send me a cheque", they just blithely assume that I use Oyster all the time, when in fact I was planning on getting a Travelcard again on Tuesday and not using the trains at all this weekend. -- David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders" More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields Isn't TfL coining it with thousands of unresolved journeys? I would opine that its tourists who lose out most of the time. If regular commuters get caught out then tourists must - all of the time. The scam I have seen at Paddington mainly at weekends is to force pax to touch in for the Heathrow Connect or a FGW local from platforms 12 / 13 / 14 - and then suddenly switch the service(s) to platform 11 (or whatever). This means that they then have to touch out from 12 not having gone anywhere and then touch back in to 11. And this is why so many pax. wait at the indicator boards on 12 - effectively blocking the route for tourists to/from the taxi rank - until they know that the Connect or FGW locals really are departing from 12 / 13 / 14. A few weeks ago I was inbound on the Connect and we came in on platform 9. There were quite a few tourists with luggage already waiting on 12. They had to come round to 9 thereby touching out from 12. But then 9 is open access so when they got to Heathrow they would have touched in and out of 12 but not touched in on 11. They would have paid a maximum fare for that journey.. The extraction of penalty fares for not touching in and out is tantamount to theft. But like BT coin phones never giving back change form unused coins these scams rake in millions of extra profit. Rip-off Britain as usual. CJB |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In message , at 22:28:28 on
Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Scott remarked: Tens of thousands of passengers use Oyster every day without incident. It is a hugely useful facility. Especially when loaded with a season ticket. It also has the potential to be useful as a "not very often" PAYG card. When I had a difficulty (my own fault) it was corrected very quickly. But too many people encounter problems, not always because they've failed to take a degree in "advanced orienteering at Wimbledon station". -- Roland Perry |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Tuesday, 22 April 2014 08:45:47 UTC+1, CJB wrote:
On Friday, 18 April 2014 16:56:11 UTC+1, David Cantrell wrote: For the last few days I've been using a PAYG Oyster card instead of my normal paper Travelcard. I did one of my usual journeys - tube from Waterloo to Balham, then train to Thornton Heath - on Wednesday evening. But the Oyster card reader at Balham didn't work properly. The gate opened but didn't record my touch-out, so I've got an unresolved journey. TfL, despite knowing my email address because that's what I use to sign in to their website to make sure they haven't ripped me off, couldn't be bothered to notify me. I only know about the unresolved journey because I don't trust Oyster and went and checked. And of course I can't submit my claim for a refund using my normal web browser which works on every other site. I have to use Firefox instead. It remains to be seen whether I actually end up being charged the right amount or not. And, of course, I have to use Oyster again to pick up my refund. I didn't see any option on the website for "refund my credit card" or "send me a cheque", they just blithely assume that I use Oyster all the time, when in fact I was planning on getting a Travelcard again on Tuesday and not using the trains at all this weekend. -- David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders" More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields Isn't TfL coining it with thousands of unresolved journeys? I would opine that its tourists who lose out most of the time. If regular commuters get caught out then tourists must - all of the time. The scam I have seen at Paddington mainly at weekends is to force pax to touch in for the Heathrow Connect or a FGW local from platforms 12 / 13 / 14 - and then suddenly switch the service(s) to platform 11 (or whatever). This means that they then have to touch out from 12 not having gone anywhere and then touch back in to 11. And this is why so many pax. wait at the indicator boards on 12 - effectively blocking the route for tourists to/from the taxi rank - until they know that the Connect or FGW locals really are departing from 12 / 13 / 14. A few weeks ago I was inbound on the Connect and we came in on platform 9.. There were quite a few tourists with luggage already waiting on 12. They had to come round to 9 thereby touching out from 12. But then 9 is open access so when they got to Heathrow they would have touched in and out of 12 but not touched in on 11. They would have paid a maximum fare for that journey. The extraction of penalty fares for not touching in and out is tantamount to theft. But like BT coin phones never giving back change form unused coins these scams rake in millions of extra profit. Rip-off Britain as usual. CJB Oyster is not valid on Heathrow Connect between Heathrow and Hayes & Harlington, so any tourists doing the above would be liable to a penalty fare in any case. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
"CJB" wrote in message ... On Friday, 18 April 2014 16:56:11 UTC+1, David Cantrell wrote: For the last few days I've been using a PAYG Oyster card instead of my normal paper Travelcard. I did one of my usual journeys - tube from Waterloo to Balham, then train to Thornton Heath - on Wednesday evening. But the Oyster card reader at Balham didn't work properly. The gate opened but didn't record my touch-out, so I've got an unresolved journey. TfL, despite knowing my email address because that's what I use to sign in to their website to make sure they haven't ripped me off, couldn't be bothered to notify me. I only know about the unresolved journey because I don't trust Oyster and went and checked. And of course I can't submit my claim for a refund using my normal web browser which works on every other site. I have to use Firefox instead. It remains to be seen whether I actually end up being charged the right amount or not. And, of course, I have to use Oyster again to pick up my refund. I didn't see any option on the website for "refund my credit card" or "send me a cheque", they just blithely assume that I use Oyster all the time, when in fact I was planning on getting a Travelcard again on Tuesday and not using the trains at all this weekend. -- David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders" More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields Isn't TfL coining it with thousands of unresolved journeys? I would opine that its tourists who lose out most of the time. If regular commuters get caught out then tourists must - all of the time. The scam I have seen at Paddington mainly at weekends is to force pax to touch in for the Heathrow Connect or a FGW local from platforms 12 / 13 / 14 - and then suddenly switch the service(s) to platform 11 (or whatever). This means that they then have to touch out from 12 not having gone anywhere and then touch back in to 11. And this is why so many pax. wait at the indicator boards on 12 - effectively blocking the route for tourists to/from the taxi rank - until they know that the Connect or FGW locals really are departing from 12 / 13 / 14. A few weeks ago I was inbound on the Connect and we came in on platform 9. There were quite a few tourists with luggage already waiting on 12. They had to come round to 9 thereby touching out from 12. But then 9 is open access so when they got to Heathrow they would have touched in and out of 12 but not touched in on 11. They would have paid a maximum fare for that journey. The extraction of penalty fares for not touching in and out is tantamount to theft. But like BT coin phones never giving back change form unused coins these scams rake in millions of extra profit. Rip-off Britain as usual. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think it at all reasonable to compare machines not giving change with the "penalty" for not touching in/out correctly machines the world over don't give change because the effort of stocking them with the necessary supply is prohibitive There is, of course, no such problem with electronic money tim |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In message , at 13:10:12 on Tue, 22
Apr 2014 tim..... remarked: I don't think it at all reasonable to compare machines not giving change with the "penalty" for not touching in/out correctly machines the world over don't give change because the effort of stocking them with the necessary supply is prohibitive There is, of course, no such problem with electronic money Happens all the time with electronic money held by mobile phone companies, 'expiring' under the subscriber's feet. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In message , at 14:49:09 on
Tue, 22 Apr 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: I've used Oyster for years - PAYG and combined with a Travelcard. I have had one mischarge in all that time which I queried and which was resolved within minutes. Others have not been so lucky (either avoiding mischarges or getting it resolved quickly). I do keep an eye on my charges as I travel. An important question is "should that be necessary". Or perhaps "are we surprised we need to do it", when 'advances' in a wide range of utility billing merely gives the consumer ever more things to have to check up on. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In message , at 16:04:07 on
Tue, 22 Apr 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: I've used Oyster for years - PAYG and combined with a Travelcard. I have had one mischarge in all that time which I queried and which was resolved within minutes. Others have not been so lucky (either avoiding mischarges or getting it resolved quickly). I didn't say they hadn't. I was merely relating my experience which is not trouble free, just very low levels of trouble. You probably understand the way it works rather better than most. I do keep an eye on my charges as I travel. An important question is "should that be necessary". Or perhaps "are we surprised we need to do it", when 'advances' in a wide range of utility billing merely gives the consumer ever more things to have to check up on. I look forward to someone inventing a fool proof fares system for London that generate the same level of income and cope with the financial demands for premium payments for TOC franchises. That rules out flat fares before anyone suggests that! There's a difference between the fares structure and the fare collecting mechanism. Perhaps it's a bit like the old adage: "Good/Fast/Cheap, you can only pick two". -- Roland Perry |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
I have had four issues on Oyster.
1. I was unable to collect a topup due to illness. The help desk advised me, correctly, that it would be refunded to my card. 2 & 3 Delays took the journey time over the max. On both occasions I went straight to the ticket office (this was a long while ago) and it was sorted before I left the station 4. Unresolved journey. Changing from rail to tube at Tottenham Hale, in the crowd I didn't see any readers and assumed that entry through the tube gateline would be like boarding the Jubilee at Stratford. (That dates it). Again it was sorted as soon as I spotted it. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
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Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
? wrote
Occasional tube users from outside London have no option but to use Oyster or pay though the nose. They can buy a one day travel card. - Mike D |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
? wrote Occasional tube users from outside London have no option but to use Oyster or pay though the nose. They can buy a one day travel card. But now only zone 1-6? Most tourists don't travel outside zones 1 and 2, unless they're Harry Potter fans, who need Watford. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
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Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In message , at 23:08:20 on
Tue, 22 Apr 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: If I know I'm likely to be making rail journeys then I will check to see how the journey is priced in the Single Fare Finder so I can see what I'll be charged or if a cheaper fare / route exists. Sometimes I have to do this using my smartphone while "on the move" to avoid unnecessary charges. That's all *such* a huge imposition on the traveller, compared with selling them a paper ticket. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 09:31:14AM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:28:28 on Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Scott remarked: When I had a difficulty (my own fault) it was corrected very quickly. But too many people encounter problems, not always because they've failed to take a degree in "advanced orienteering at Wimbledon station". I don't even mind that there are problems. What I object to is: * TfL's computers knew that there was a problem with this journey; * TfL's computers knew an email address associated with that card; * TfL's computers could have notified me automatically but didn't. If they'd emailed me to notify me that there was a problem I'd be happy. Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we got it sorted. It's still not obvious that I've been charged the right amount, because working out what the fares should be requires an advanced degree in non-Euclidean economics*, but I did at least get *some* money refunded. Given that I'm not a conspiracy theorist I'm going to assume that I was refunded the right amount. * yes, really. Explain this: Tue 15 Apr 09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30 18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30 Total: GBP10.60 OK, that looks sane. Same amount in both directions. Thu 17 Apr 09:07 - 10:16 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30 18:41 - 19:01 Aldgate East - Victoria : GBP 2.20 19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60 Total: GBP10.10 Apparently if I spend too long hanging around at Victoria, making it think that I made three journeys instead of two, the price goes down. -- David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence Erudite is when you make a classical allusion to a feather. Kinky is when you use the whole chicken. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 02:49:09PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
Do you have evidence that people are "ripped off" in the way you suggest? Do you have evidence that tourists are any more prone to a mischarge than anyone else? Tourists are less likely to know that they are liable to be mis-charged and less likely if they're aware of the potential problem to know how to check whether they are a victim or not. Being mis-charged is probably about as likely to happen to anyone on PAYG, but locals are more likely to get the error corrected. Do I have evidence that this actually happens? No. But it's *obvious* both that tourists will make accidental errors, and that they are less able to defend themselves against TfL's errors. We all know this. We've all been tourists elsewhere. I also thought there were Oyster validators at ungated platforms at Paddington. In the unlikely event that they think about the ticketing system (in reality only transport nerds give it any of their precious attention) it's reasonable to think "I've already touched in, then the platform changed, the system must know what the touch-out means". Combine that with not knowing that Oyster validators exist, or what they look like. That the validators exist is not sufficient. I've used Oyster for years - PAYG and combined with a Travelcard. I have had one mischarge in all that time which I queried and which was resolved within minutes. I do keep an eye on my charges as I travel. That you know that you should keep an eye on it makes you unusual. -- David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age Today's previously unreported paraphilia is tomorrow's Internet sensation |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
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Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 10:04:40AM -0700, wrote:
I have had four issues on Oyster. [at most one of which was sorted out automatically] So your point is the same as mine, that it really sucks that you have to notice these problems yourself before anything gets done? -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david In this episode, R2 and Luke weld the doors shut on their X-Wing, and Chewbacca discovers that his Ewok girlfriend is really just a Womble with its nose chopped off. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote: * yes, really. Explain this: Tue 15 Apr 09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30 18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30 Total: GBP10.60 OK, that looks sane. Same amount in both directions. Thu 17 Apr 09:07 - 10:16 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30 18:41 - 19:01 Aldgate East - Victoria : GBP 2.20 19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60 Total: GBP10.10 The Thornton Heath - Aldgate East fare is 5.30 (peak) and 4.10 (offpeak) The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak. The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak. Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00. So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home: as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90. as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30. as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80 as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10 I'm not entirely sure that the introduction of "offpeak" fares qualifies for "non-eclidean fares", but there you go. -- Mike Bristow |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:01:08 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we got it sorted. They claim to have a Textphone. Is that any help in these situations? |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
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Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote: On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 04:11:24PM -0500, wrote: Also, how do you keep an eye on your charges if you use the older gates that reveal no useful information? I have never seen any useful information displayed at a gate other than variations on the theme of "your ticket didn't work, try again". Oh, there are lots of other things displayed. But unless I stop and look carefully while people queue up behind me, and then pull my phone out, navigate to the right page on TfL's website, and carefully compare the two - the "information" isn't useful information at all. It tells you the fare deducted and the new card balance if it's not one of the old gates. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
wrote
(Recliner) wrote: They can buy a one day travel card. But now only zone 1-6? Most tourists don't travel outside zones 1 and 2, unless they're Harry Potter fans, who need Watford. I assume he means from outside the zones which have always been 1-6. It depends heavily on the TOC. Worth buying from Oxford (FGW) but not from Cambridge (FCC). Both really. On a day trip the the CDR+ODTC combo ticket (or the buy two tickets option previously discussed here). On a short visit buy a ODTC daily, it may cost more than PAYG for two or three tube trips but it's flat rate so you know you will not be ripped off and you can get a railcard discount. And tourists do go to Hampton Court, Kew, Cutty Sark, Hendon, Greenwich, Fulham Palace and even Box Hill and Heathrow. -- Mike D |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:15:39 +0100
Paul Corfield wrote: I am amazed that ordinary punters manage to miss those headlines. I agree it would not be usual fare for tourists to see that info but then again I've no idea what rip offs there are with the Navigo smartcard in Paris or Miki in Melbourne. Most cities don't have to worry about all this nonsense in the first place. They charge flat fares - problem solved. And yes it *could* be done in London - its done in new york and moscow, both of which are larger systems than the underground. -- Spud |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In article , (Michael R N
Dolbear) wrote: wrote (Recliner) wrote: They can buy a one day travel card. But now only zone 1-6? Most tourists don't travel outside zones 1 and 2, unless they're Harry Potter fans, who need Watford. I assume he means from outside the zones which have always been 1-6. It depends heavily on the TOC. Worth buying from Oxford (FGW) but not from Cambridge (FCC). Both really. On a day trip the the CDR+ODTC combo ticket (or the buy two tickets option previously discussed here). From Cambridge Day Travelcards are best if sensibly priced for the London travel required. Easy at weekends with Super-Off-Peak ones. On a short visit buy a ODTC daily, it may cost more than PAYG for two or three tube trips but it's flat rate so you know you will not be ripped off and you can get a railcard discount. And tourists do go to Hampton Court, Kew, Cutty Sark, Hendon, Greenwich, Fulham Palace and even Box Hill and Heathrow. Heathrow is one of the special requirements. If coming back through it you often need to buy an ODTC in advance from Cambridge because there are no sensible Heathrow to Cambridge tickets. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On 23/04/2014 18:15, Paul Corfield wrote:
Despite the annual screaming headline of "Oyster Rip Off" from the Standard, BBC London and ITV London when one of the London Assembly members does their regular FOI request for the level of overcharges / refunds / Oyster deposits held? I am amazed that ordinary punters manage to miss those headlines. To be fair, ordinary punters are probably amazed that the people who read u.t.l. are (I suspect) largely unaware of what some member of a popular beat combo wore yesterday, or what some celebrity said about some other celebrity. After all, it was in the Metro and everything. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In message , at 20:51:18 on
Wed, 23 Apr 2014, Richard remarked: a user should be able to keep to the "always touch in and out" requirement -- regular, tourist or whatever. It isn't difficult! There are still bear-traps for the unwary. For example getting off a train at a London terminus having travelled that far on a paper ticket, clutching an Oyster for onward tube travel, and using it to "always touch out" at the barrier line, results in an unresolved journey. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
In message , at 00:56:04 on
Thu, 24 Apr 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: I think points 1 and 3 are key. For their part, a user should be able to keep to the "always touch in and out" requirement -- regular, tourist or whatever. It isn't difficult! (But let's not speak of Wimbledon.) There needs to be only a tiny risk of trouble, having complied with this rule. Much of this will be moot once we've got CPC going on all modes, but still applies to any ITSO schemes. Why will it be moot with a CPC? You will surely be required to touch in all the same places as an Oyster user does to generate an adequate transaction trail to allow TfL to calculate fares and caps. There is nothing magical about a CPC that allows TfL to determine you've avoided Zone 1 if you haven't touched on a pink validator at a relevant defined interchange. Or that you've touched something n-1 or n+1 times by mistake, creating an unresolved journey. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
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Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
Go through a gate that opens in front of you and discover the touch hasn't
been registered, I have never seen that happen when it was definitely my own card that opened the gate. When a large crowd is pushing through the gate may have opened for the person in front or the person behind. Even so the problem is more likely to be somebody trying to slip through as the gates open for you. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article , David Cantrell wrote: Tue 15 Apr 09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30 18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30 The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak. The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak. Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00. So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home: as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90. as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30. as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80 as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10 That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at Victoria until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30. -- David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness Immigration: making Britain great since AD43 |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 03:25:23PM +0100, David Walters wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:01:08 +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we got it sorted. They claim to have a Textphone. Is that any help in these situations? Not really, because I'm not deaf enough to make such an expensive device necessary. And if someone is going to communicate using text, the interweb is a much better medium. And because as far as I can tell all textphones are designed to work with those obsolete fixed line things. I don't even remember where the BT socket is in my flat! -- David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 09:46:19AM -0500, wrote:
In article , (David Cantrell) wrote: Oh, there are lots of other things displayed. But unless I stop and look carefully while people queue up behind me, and then pull my phone out, navigate to the right page on TfL's website, and carefully compare the two - the "information" isn't useful information at all. It tells you the fare deducted and the new card balance if it's not one of the old gates. Not useful, unless you're in the tiny minority that have memorised what the fares should be and who know what their card balance is at all times. And you still have to stop and bend down to see what it says while the person behind is trying to push you through the gate because they're not expecting you to stop and admire the scenery. -- David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing 23.5 degrees of axial tilt is the reason for the season |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 06:15:39PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:16:46 +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 02:49:09PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote: I've used Oyster for years - PAYG and combined with a Travelcard. I have had one mischarge in all that time which I queried and which was resolved within minutes. I do keep an eye on my charges as I travel. That you know that you should keep an eye on it makes you unusual. I suspect I am not that unusual in keeping track of Oyster transactions. I see an awful lot of people paying attention to the displays on bus ticket machines when they've tapped their Oyster Card. I expect they're doing that for a reason rather than for fun. To me that looks like people checking to see whether the silly thing registered their card at all given how hard it is to distinguish the bleeps from all the other noises coming from peoples' phones and over the background noise of shouting chavs, screaming children, and honking white van drivers. -- David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat " In My Egotistical Opinion, most people's ... programs should be indented six feet downward and covered with dirt. " --Blair P. Houghton |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:08:41 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote: However the alternative is that thousands of journey combinations are priced via Zone 1 *regardless* of the fact that for a lot of journeys orbital routes avoiding Zone 1 are now feasible. The DLR and Overground have facilitated a lot of that extra choice. I, for one, would object enormously to be charged via Zone 1 when I'd never been through the centre! If I *do* go via Zone 1 then fair enough I'll pay the extension fare but at least I've decided to do that rather than some system imposing it on me even when I have *not* been via Zone. If I need to tap a pink reader to stay in the rule set then that's OK, if a little tiresome. I came up against that at Willesden Junction when the new inter-platform route was opened; I used it but there is no pink reader there and no warning that it must be used. There was no way that I could have got from Stonebridge Park to Kew in the time taken if I had gone via Zone 1 but neither LOR nor TfL were interested in putting things right. |
Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 08:51:18PM +0100, Richard wrote:
* Have it absolutely made certain that a barrier cannot open with the card in an inconsistent state; That can't be done until NR stations gain the ability to fix Oyster card problems. It might also be incompatible with the desire to close tube ticket offices. No, I don't care why NR stations can't do this. * Improve displays where possible to more easily see what is going on; A very hard problem. Given that part of the idea behind Oyster is that it gets people through the barrier area quicker than paper tickets, they've constrained themselves to getting that information across in an astonishingly short amount of time. It takes an appreciable fraction of a second to move your gaze to a display and focus on it enough to read a few characters. -- David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world Wow, my first sigquoting! I feel so special now! -- Dan Sugalski |
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