LUL set to close Met line
 

OK I lied, as far as I know they don't have any plans to close it, but
they might as well based on it's pathetic performance over the last
week.

I have tried to use it from Amersham 4 days out of the last 7 with the
following results:
No Morning peak service both ways north of Moor Park for 2 of the days.
(In fact on 1 day there was no southbound service until 14:00!)

Detrained at Harrow on the Hill on the other 2 mornings to scenes of
total chaos. This was due to multiple signal failures at Finchley Road,
Baker St, Farringdon (surely the most often U/S signal on the network)
and the City.

Return journeys were just as bad with no service North of Moor Park on 2
nights and Ealing comedy type farce on the 3rd. This last one took the
form of running only Uxbridge bound trains north of Baker St and
advising Amersham Passengers to change at Wembley Park where the
Amersham trains would be starting from. Needless to say the station
staff at Wembley knew nothing about this and swore blind this was not
the case, the dot matrix displays also only showed Uxbridge trains.
While the station staff tried to find out any details an empty Amersham
bound train sailed into the other side of the station. This then
triggered a large amount of very ****ed off people to run up one flight
of stairs across the station and down another flight of stairs. The 1st
bunch of people mainly young and fit then held the doors until all the
other passengers could board it.

Why is it that LUL, LT, TFL or whatever name is being used this month is
TOTALLY incapable of the most simple form of internal communication.
All the station staff at Wembley had mobile phones, it would have taken
30 secs for whoever made the announcement at Baker St to call one of
those phones during the 15 mins it took the train to get there. As
always this did not happen.

The above is only a part of the chaos I have seen over the last week but
I think you get the idea by now.

Dave





--
Dave B

LUL set to close Met line
 

In reply to news post, which daveb wrote on Thu, 5
Feb 2004 -


OK I lied, as far as I know they don't have any plans to close it, but
they might as well based on it's pathetic performance over the last
week.

I have tried to use it from Amersham 4 days out of the last 7 with the
following results:
No Morning peak service both ways north of Moor Park for 2 of the days.
(In fact on 1 day there was no southbound service until 14:00!)

Detrained at Harrow on the Hill on the other 2 mornings to scenes of
total chaos. This was due to multiple signal failures at Finchley Road,
Baker St, Farringdon (surely the most often U/S signal on the network)
and the City.

Return journeys were just as bad with no service North of Moor Park on
2 nights and Ealing comedy type farce on the 3rd. This last one took
the form of running only Uxbridge bound trains north of Baker St and
advising Amersham Passengers to change at Wembley Park where the
Amersham trains would be starting from. Needless to say the station
staff at Wembley knew nothing about this and swore blind this was not
the case, the dot matrix displays also only showed Uxbridge trains.
While the station staff tried to find out any details an empty Amersham
bound train sailed into the other side of the station. This then
triggered a large amount of very ****ed off people to run up one flight
of stairs across the station and down another flight of stairs. The 1st
bunch of people mainly young and fit then held the doors until all the
other passengers could board it.

Why is it that LUL, LT, TFL or whatever name is being used this month
is TOTALLY incapable of the most simple form of internal communication.
All the station staff at Wembley had mobile phones, it would have taken
30 secs for whoever made the announcement at Baker St to call one of
those phones during the 15 mins it took the train to get there. As
always this did not happen.

The above is only a part of the chaos I have seen over the last week
but I think you get the idea by now.

Dave

Welcome to the Metropolitan Line!

It has been like this for ages, although in truth the last few months
have been better than usual

I made a record of my travels, if you are interested see

www.metroland.org.uk

Now that funding the LUL is being sorted out perhaps some planning for
the Met can take place. New trains will arrive (OK in a few years) and
perhaps they can further tweak the signals and service patter to make
things more reliable - why do so many trains go to Watford and Uxbridge
with a lot at times almost empty?

Matthew


--
Matthew P Jones - www.amersham.org.uk
My view of the Metropolitan Line www.metroland.org.uk - actually I like it
Don't reply to it will not be read
You can reply to knap AT Nildram dot co dot uk

LUL set to close Met line
 

"Matthew P Jones" wrote in message
...

Now that funding the LUL is being sorted out perhaps some planning for
the Met can take place. New trains will arrive (OK in a few years) and
perhaps they can further tweak the signals and service patter to make
things more reliable - why do so many trains go to Watford and Uxbridge
with a lot at times almost empty?

Part of the 'turn up and go' policy requires timetabling of services to run
to all destinations every 10 minutes.

LUL set to close Met line
 

daveb wrote in message ...
The above is only a part of the chaos I have seen over the last week but
I think you get the idea by now.

Public transport these days is staffed mainly by people who don't give a
damn both on the management and workers side. Not just LUL, but the busses
and mainline trains too. Their attitude is "f*ck you , you should be grateful
we're running any kind of service at all now shut your mouth and wait".
You're right , a simple bit of communication would have made a lot of peoples
journey a lot easier but it makes little difference to the people who run the
service what happens to the passengers so in their mind they just don't see why
they should make the effort.

B2003

LUL set to close Met line
 

In reply to news post, which Robin Mayes wrote on
Fri, 6 Feb 2004 -

"Matthew P Jones" wrote in message
...

Now that funding the LUL is being sorted out perhaps some planning for
the Met can take place. New trains will arrive (OK in a few years) and
perhaps they can further tweak the signals and service patter to make
things more reliable - why do so many trains go to Watford and Uxbridge
with a lot at times almost empty?

Part of the 'turn up and go' policy requires timetabling of services to run
to all destinations every 10 minutes.


Well perhaps for obvious reasons, there is no 10 minute service to
Amersham! I just wonder if they could tweak it to spread the service
more evenly to Uxbridge, Watford and Amersham - or even introduce
services that start and stop at Harrow and Rickmansworth
--
Matthew P Jones - www.amersham.org.uk
My view of the Metropolitan Line www.metroland.org.uk - actually I like it
Don't reply to it will not be read
You can reply to knap AT Nildram dot co dot uk

LUL set to close Met line
 

"Matthew P Jones" wrote in message
...

Now that funding the LUL is being sorted out perhaps some planning for
the Met can take place. New trains will arrive (OK in a few years) and
perhaps they can further tweak the signals and service patter to make
things more reliable - why do so many trains go to Watford and Uxbridge
with a lot at times almost empty?

Part of the 'turn up and go' policy requires timetabling of services to
run
to all destinations every 10 minutes.


Well perhaps for obvious reasons, there is no 10 minute service to
Amersham! I just wonder if they could tweak it to spread the service
more evenly to Uxbridge, Watford and Amersham - or even introduce
services that start and stop at Harrow and Rickmansworth

But there is a train every 10 minutes from London to Amersham if you include
the 2 Chiltern services.

Peter Smyth

LUL set to close Met line
 

In message , Matthew P Jones
writes
Welcome to the Metropolitan Line!

It has been like this for ages, although in truth the last few months
have been better than usual

I made a record of my travels, if you are interested see

www.metroland.org.uk

Now that funding the LUL is being sorted out perhaps some planning for
the Met can take place. New trains will arrive (OK in a few years) and
perhaps they can further tweak the signals and service patter to make
things more reliable - why do so many trains go to Watford and Uxbridge
with a lot at times almost empty?

Matthew



I have used the Met line for many, many years, through different
governments, Ken Livingstone, Bob Kiley etc. Yet they all seem unable
to get the correct information to the staff on the station when it's
really needed.

The station staff in my example (and indeed most of the one's I have had
contact with recently) were as helpful as they could be but obviously
knew nothing about this situation. Yet the decision that lead to this
must have been made by "someone somewhere" at least 20 mins prior to our
arrival. Yet it was not forwarded to the front line.
Is this a British class type thing? e.g. middle management trying to
avoid contact with what they see as oik's, or is it something so
ingrained into LUL way of working that it will never be able to be
eradicated?


--
Dave B

LUL set to close Met line
 

daveb wrote:

I have used the Met line for many, many years, through different
governments, Ken Livingstone, Bob Kiley etc. Yet they all seem unable
to get the correct information to the staff on the station when it's
really needed.

The station staff in my example (and indeed most of the one's I have
had contact with recently) were as helpful as they could be but
obviously knew nothing about this situation. Yet the decision that
lead to this must have been made by "someone somewhere" at least 20
mins prior to our arrival. Yet it was not forwarded to the front line.
Is this a British class type thing? e.g. middle management trying to
avoid contact with what they see as oik's, or is it something so
ingrained into LUL way of working that it will never be able to be
eradicated?

It the simple inability or unwillingness of many people to understand that
someone, somewhere needs access to the information that they hold and that
they should pass it on.

It's all very well installing in wonderful new communications equipment, but
if there is no investment in the people's communication skills then it is a
waste of money.

LUL set to close Met line
 

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...

It the simple inability or unwillingness of many people to understand that
someone, somewhere needs access to the information that they hold and that
they should pass it on.

It's all very well installing in wonderful new communications equipment,
but
if there is no investment in the people's communication skills then it is
a
waste of money.

Indeed so, although I think that the same applies to the travelling public.
Despite the vast fortunes being invested in visual and audible passenger
information systems (both on-train and on-station) a significant number of
people blatantly ignore them and, in their defence, I suspect that staff
trying to go about their daily tasks must get heartily sick of perpetually
being pestered by people with dumb questions, simply because they can't be
bothered to refer to the timetable posters or PIS, or listen to the
announcements. The faults lie on both sides and work both ways.

Despite doing a Maths and Computing course at college (in the early 1980s)
we were forced to do a module called "Communication Studies". At the time we
all thought it was a bit of a joke but it has been really useful to me, in
retrospect, both at work and as regular passenger. Perhaps it should be
included in all further education courses, if not lower in the education
system.

LUL set to close Met line
 

Jack Taylor wrote:

Despite doing a Maths and Computing course at college (in the early
1980s) we were forced to do a module called "Communication Studies".
At the time we all thought it was a bit of a joke but it has been
really useful to me, in retrospect, both at work and as regular
passenger. Perhaps it should be included in all further education
courses, if not lower in the education system.

Most definitely it's something that should be developed in early life.

LUL set to close Met line
 

In reply to news post, which Peter Smyth
wrote on Fri, 6 Feb 2004 -

"Matthew P Jones" wrote in message
...

Now that funding the LUL is being sorted out perhaps some planning for
the Met can take place. New trains will arrive (OK in a few years) and
perhaps they can further tweak the signals and service patter to make
things more reliable - why do so many trains go to Watford and Uxbridge
with a lot at times almost empty?

Part of the 'turn up and go' policy requires timetabling of services to
run
to all destinations every 10 minutes.


Well perhaps for obvious reasons, there is no 10 minute service to
Amersham! I just wonder if they could tweak it to spread the service
more evenly to Uxbridge, Watford and Amersham - or even introduce
services that start and stop at Harrow and Rickmansworth

But there is a train every 10 minutes from London to Amersham if you include
the 2 Chiltern services.

Yes on average there is a 10 minute service, but some of the Chiltern
peak services do not stop at all stations and the two through Chesham
trains can make for an uneven pattern of service from Baker Street to
Amersham. Things are a lot better than they used to be, but having
waited on many occasions at Harrow for over 30 minutes during the rush
hour for a train to Amersham, it is incredible how many Watford and
Uxbridge trains go through half empty. The trains arrive well loaded at
Harrow and many people seem to then be waiting for trains to stations
from Rickmansworth onwards.

--
Matthew P Jones - www.amersham.org.uk
My view of the Metropolitan Line www.metroland.org.uk - actually I like it
Don't reply to it will not be read
You can reply to knap AT Nildram dot co dot uk

LUL set to close Met line
 

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message k...
Indeed so, although I think that the same applies to the travelling public.
Despite the vast fortunes being invested in visual and audible passenger
information systems (both on-train and on-station) a significant number of
people blatantly ignore them and, in their defence, I suspect that staff
trying to go about their daily tasks must get heartily sick of perpetually
being pestered by people with dumb questions, simply because they can't be
bothered to refer to the timetable posters or PIS, or listen to the
announcements. The faults lie on both sides and work both ways.

Theres no reason why current service information above and beyond the time
till the next 3 trains can't be presented on the dot matrix displays at all
stations. They've got the computer infrastructure to do it so why don't they?
Other countries can manage it.

B2003

LUL set to close Met line
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
om...

Theres no reason why current service information above and beyond the time
till the next 3 trains can't be presented on the dot matrix displays at
all
stations. They've got the computer infrastructure to do it so why don't
they?
Other countries can manage it.

I don't disagree - and most main stations already have CRT monitors in
addition to the dot matrix displays that show at least two pages of
forthcoming departures (some of the more recent installations have even
progressed to TFT monitors). That, in addition to clearly marked
"Information" points on the concourse where all the poster departures sheets
are centrally located.

The thing is that many of the people that we are discussing here are simply
too lazy (or stupid?) to bother using *any* facilities provided and,
whatever and however many new features you introduce, they still won't use
them if it means them walking ten feet down the platform. God only knows how
they would have managed to travel twenty years ago when the only information
available was from timetable posters and tannoy announcements!

LUL set to close Met line
 

Theres no reason why current service information above and beyond the time
till the next 3 trains can't be presented on the dot matrix displays at all
stations. They've got the computer infrastructure to do it so why don't they?
Other countries can manage it.

B2003

The irony of the Met line in the Harrow are is that while down the
line at Northwick Park where there are two platforms and not much
point changing trains they have dot matrix displays showing 2 or 3
trains.
However (unless its changed in the last 6 months). Harrow on the Hill.
A big station with lots of interchanges for many services you have the
old fixed board that lights up with the destnation of the train often
5 minuites after its been announced on the P.A. and quite often just
as the train is pulling in to the station.
So you don't know how long you have to wait. Or when the train to the
destnation you want is going to arrive. And if your going into the
city its pointless having semi-fast services as a stopping service
comes in and you don't know whether when (or IF) the semi-fast service
is coming so you either let it go only to have the next train a
stopping service. Or get on the stopping service to have a semi-fast
speed past you at Northwick Park

LUL set to close Met line
 

CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North wrote:
Theres no reason why current service information above and beyond
the time till the next 3 trains can't be presented on the dot matrix
displays at all stations. They've got the computer infrastructure to
do it so why don't they? Other countries can manage it.

B2003

The irony of the Met line in the Harrow are is that while down the
line at Northwick Park where there are two platforms and not much
point changing trains they have dot matrix displays showing 2 or 3
trains.
However (unless its changed in the last 6 months). Harrow on the Hill.
A big station with lots of interchanges for many services you have the
old fixed board that lights up with the destnation of the train often
5 minuites after its been announced on the P.A. and quite often just
as the train is pulling in to the station.
So you don't know how long you have to wait. Or when the train to the
destnation you want is going to arrive. And if your going into the
city its pointless having semi-fast services as a stopping service
comes in and you don't know whether when (or IF) the semi-fast service
is coming so you either let it go only to have the next train a
stopping service. Or get on the stopping service to have a semi-fast
speed past you at Northwick Park

And it is that very complexity which makes installation at such a place more
difficult to achieve successfully.

LUL set to close Met line
 

In message , Cast_Iron
writes
And if your going into the
city its pointless having semi-fast services as a stopping service
comes in and you don't know whether when (or IF) the semi-fast service
is coming so you either let it go only to have the next train a
stopping service. Or get on the stopping service to have a semi-fast
speed past you at Northwick Park

And it is that very complexity which makes installation at such a place more
difficult to achieve successfully.

Perhaps what they need is a database showing the expected times of the
trains, and run the displays from that. You could call it a time
"table". Nah, it would never work.
--
Roland Perry

LUL set to close Met line
 

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North wrote:

Harrow on the Hill. A big station with lots of interchanges
for many services you have the old fixed board that lights
up with the destnation of the train often 5 minuites after its
been announced on the P.A. and quite often just as the train
is pulling in to the station.

And it is that very complexity which makes installation at such
a place more difficult to achieve successfully.

It shouldn't do. All we need is a single display telling us when and where
the next three trains are going, with an arrow on the left or the right
telling us which platform it will use. There is no need for the arrow to
light up until about 10 seconds before the train arrives. How hard can that
be? If the eastbound platforms at North Harrow and West Harrow can display
the right info, putting it together for the display at HOTH doesn't seem
like rocket science.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

LUL set to close Met line
 

"CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North" wrote in
message om...
The irony of the Met line in the Harrow are is that while down the
line at Northwick Park where there are two platforms and not much
point changing trains they have dot matrix displays showing 2 or 3
trains.

Why, then, have I never seen the Northwick Park dot-matrix showing the
details of more than one train, and then only when it's one minute away?

Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant, eh?

LUL set to close Met line
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:56:34 -0000, "David Splett"
wrote:

The irony of the Met line in the Harrow are is that while down the
line at Northwick Park where there are two platforms and not much
point changing trains they have dot matrix displays showing 2 or 3
trains.

Why, then, have I never seen the Northwick Park dot-matrix showing the
details of more than one train, and then only when it's one minute away?

That is true for the southbound but for northbound you can see details
for two or three trains.

LUL set to close Met line
 

"David Splett" wrote in message ...
"CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North" wrote in
message om...
The irony of the Met line in the Harrow are is that while down the
line at Northwick Park where there are two platforms and not much
point changing trains they have dot matrix displays showing 2 or 3
trains.

Why, then, have I never seen the Northwick Park dot-matrix showing the
details of more than one train, and then only when it's one minute away?

Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant, eh?

Depends what direction your travelling. Northbound trains show three
trains usually. Southbound true only show one. And this is usually 3
seconds before you see it in the distance.
Never let facts get in the way of correctly someone etc...