On 10 Feb 2004, Matt Ashby wrote:

"Overground Network"

As you almost certainly know, the point of ON is not to distinguish it
from the London Underground, but to show that the station has at least 4
trains per hour to / from central London (i.e. that it has a 'metro'
service, much like the Underground

4 tph is not very much like the underground!

tom

--
Well parse this, you little markup asshole. -- The Parable of the Languages

Mait001" wrote in message
...
Although I despise Ken and everything he stands for (except his failed
attempt
to prevent privatisation of the Underground), credit where credit is due:
his
sheer stickability and tenacity has to be admired. He will probably win
the
next elections by sheer stealth - even a dyed-in-the-wool Tory like me
wouldn't
touch Steven Norris with a barge pole!


I'm intrigued. Livingstone stands for improving public transport. You claim
to be a railway enthusiast so by extension more pro public transport in
general than anti. Why are you against Livingstone's efforts to improve
public transport?



I am in favour of whatever attempts there are to improve public transport - as
I made clear in saying that I supported Ken's attempts to prevent Underground
privatisation.

As for other plans, I oppose congestion charging on principle (I pay taexes to
drive on The Queen's Highway and fundamentally object to paying Ken for the
right to do so), but do support generally public transport improvements. And, I
credit Ken, from his G.L.C. days, with introducing the Travelcard, which is
superb. The Oyster I don't even understand, however, and one-day tickets (which
I need to buy because my travel varies from day to day and at short notice)
aren't even included.

Ken said he'd keep the Routemaster: that was a lie, and within 6 months or so,
there will be none left. I think articulated buses in crowded streets are a
crazy idea.

But my fundamental objection to Ken is all the other panoply of Left-wing
nonsense he foisted (as G.L.C. Leader) and now foists on us, such as his
ridiculous event held during Bush's State Visit, and all the other minority
groups he funded and funds. As someone who remembers the bad old days of the
G.L.C. and I.L.E.A., I find it ironic that Ken has any responsibility for the
Police whatseover - in those days the Police were forbidden from entering
I.L.E.A. schools because they were seen as Right-wing forces of capitalism
which were in danger of corrupting young minds against the forces of good (i.e.
the G.L.C. and I.L.E.A.).

In fact I fundamentally object to having a Mayor at all. We don't need one, or
an Assembly. An overall director of transport strategy etc., with an elected
transport authority if necessary, yes, but not all of the surrounding panoply
housed in that monstrously ugly building near Tower Bridge.

Marc.

Not all of these are EU-initiated or even true currently, but I'll limit
my comment to the one that is more or less on-topic for this NG:

- railway infrastructure separate from operations (a Directive
requirement that
ensures even if we wanted it, the railways can never again be united
in
ownership)

No, that's not true. The operations and infrastructure have to be
separately accounted, but AFAIK there is no requirement actually to
force them to be in separate organisations. It was John Major's
government that decided to carve BR up in the crass way that they did.
Other countries have done it differently, within EU rules.

--
Richard J.

I do not defend the particularly crass way that Major's government privatised
the railways, but the fact that they needed to be split remains a Directive
requirement.

The fact that other countries may have retained a unified structure means
nothing: France gets away with subsidising Air France to the tune of billions -
but we would neither attempt to break the rules the way they do, nor ignore the
European Court's ruling when censured (in France's case, the Commission simply
changed the rules after the judgement, so that France was no longer in breach).

Of course they have to be separate organisations - how could Europeans bid for
franchises if there was only one franchise to be let?

Marc.

Despite everything that has been said, I still strongly dispute that there
are
4 trains per hour from Waterloo to Wandsworth Town in the evening peak
period.

There aren't four - there are six per hour!

17.02 18.02 (Kingston via Richmond)
17.17 18.17 (Shepperton via Richmond)
17.24 18.24 (Weybridge via Hounslow loop)
17.33 18.34 (Kingston via Richmond)
17.47 18.47 (Shepperton via Richmond)
17.54 18.54 (Weybridge via Hounslow loop)

Are you sure you aren't limiting yourself to just one of these three
routes between Waterloo and Wandsworth Town?

--
Paul Terry

My normal travel time is a bit later: I'd like to know how many trains are
timetabled between 7 and 8p.m.

Marc.

Haven't stuck my head over the parapet to argue politics with Marc for a
while, so...

"Mait001" wrote in message
...

P.S. Do you really believe the Hutton Report was a whitewash, and that the
B.B.C. were not wholly deserving of criticism for (at best) slipshod
reporting
and controls and (at worst) downright dishonesty in the form of Mr.
Gilligan's
(now admitted) exaggeration and unfounded source?

I am no supporter of Blur, and I wholeheartedly support the best
traditions of
public service broadcasting, but on this one issue, I am afraid, Hutton
was
absolutely right


My personal objections - and those of the BBC staff members I've spoken to -
to the Hutton report are not because Gilligan is some blameless sacrificial
lamb, or that the Corporation was entirely innocent. Rather, they are that
the report was so one sided. It seems to be fairly well-established now that
the government's September 2002 dossier was not entirely accurate - whether
by accident or design - and so it was quite a shock to see them completely
exonerated.

This is, of course, in part because the terms of the enquiry were so narrow;
some people mistook it for an enquiry into the reasons for the war, when it
was in fact into one story broadcast on Radio 4 at 6.07 one morning. Gavyn
Davies has said that once the match has started you can't argue with the
referee; but since the other team choose their own referee, it's not
surprising that he may have had an establishment bias.

Jonn

On 11 Feb 2004 14:29:03 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:

[Waterloo to Wandsworth Town]

My normal travel time is a bit later: I'd like to know how many trains are
timetabled between 7 and 8p.m.

QJump shows the following:

Waterloo dep 1902 1916 1917 1932 1945 1947
Wandsworth Town arr 1914 2013 1929 1944 2043 1959

HTH,

Barry

--
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the
views of my employers.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:56 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Peter Beale) wrote:

In article , (Clive Page) wrote:

Wouldn't it be better to call it the S-bahn? It's a term understood
over large parts of continental Europe; a short term, easy to read on
signs.

Since it's German (more correctly S-Bahn), surely it's only used in Germany,
Austria and Switzerland.

Unless there is a well-hidden Vaduz S-Bahn :-)

Paris has its RER, perhaps other continental cities
have the equivalent with appropriate local names.

Copenhagen has S-Tog, which I think is something similar. I've heard
the phrase "Brussels RER" used to describe plans for that city.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Barry Salter wrote:
On 11 Feb 2004 14:29:03 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:

[Waterloo to Wandsworth Town]

My normal travel time is a bit later: I'd like to know how many
trains are timetabled between 7 and 8p.m.

QJump shows the following:

Waterloo dep 1902 1916 1917 1932 1945 1947
Wandsworth Town arr 1914 2013 1929 1944 2043 1959

The inclusion of the 1916 and 1945 departures is odd, except possibly as
a fallback if other trains are cancelled. They take ages to get to
Wandsworth Town because they are Waterloo-to-Waterloo services that stop
at Wandsworth Town on the way *back* to Waterloo, having been routed via
Wimbledon, Kingston and Richmond.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On 10 Feb 2004 14:06:33 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:

- criminal prosecutions for selling vegetables in Imperial units

Reports on this have to be checked carefully, as the prosecution might
be for using an illegal set of scales, or /not/ selling in metric,
which is subtley different, but less tabloid-friendly. Weights and
measures have always been regulated, and I think are mentioned in
Magna Carta. The peck and bushel were dropped in 1968, before we
joined (what became) the EU.

- railway infrastructure separate from operations (a Directive requirement that
ensures even if we wanted it, the railways can never again be united in
ownership)

This about accounting, not how things are owned and run - see RFF and
SNCF. In theory it makes it clearer who is paying what, to prevent
subsidies to one operator disadvantaging another. The whole
privatisation thing in the most of UK was the fault of a home-grown
Conservative government, however much some anti-Europeans or
pro-Conservatives would like to shift the blame elsewhere. The Swedes
were the first to try separating operations and infrastructure, but
they weren't so driven by ideology that they felt a need to flog it
off.

- abolition of passport controls

This is a bad thing? Anyway, if they have abolished passport controls
they have done it quietly and not told Waterloo International, Paris
North, or Brussels South.

- a European anthem (by Beethoeven, a..... German)

Maybe we should have a nice English tune, like the one for "Oben am
jungen Rhein".
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In message , Arthur Figgis
] writes

On 10 Feb 2004 14:06:33 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:

- a European anthem (by Beethoeven, a..... German)

Maybe we should have a nice English tune, like the one for "Oben am
jungen Rhein".

I'm not very clear who Mait001 thinks should write a European anthem -
perhaps an American composer would be more appropriate? Maybe something
along the lines of Mel Brooks' "Springtime for H..ler and Ger-ma-ny,
Winter for Poland and France".

(I am assuming that "bad taste" has now become the order of the day

--
Paul Terry