From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28680186

Proposals to extend Crossrail to Hertfordshire are being considered by the
government, the transport secretary is expected to announce later.

Extending the service would reduce journey times between London and
Hertfordshire by up to 16 minutes.

At the Crossrail site at Farringdon in central London, Patrick McLoughlin
is expected to outline the benefits of extending the link.

Business groups in the area said an extension would drive economic growth.

'Long-term regeneration'

Mr McLoughlin is expected to say the proposals would take the pressure off
the Tube's busiest sections and make it easier to improve Euston, which
will have 11 new platforms built under proposals for the HS2 high-speed
rail project between London and the West Midlands.

Under the plans, stations likely to get Crossrail services will include
Tring, Hemel Hempstead, Watford Junction, Berkhamsted and Harrow and
Wealdstone.

Yolanda Rugg, chief executive officer at the Hertfordshire Chamber of
Commerce, said the announcement would be "a catalyst to drive economic
growth" in the area.

"It will provide vital high-speed transport connectivity from London to the
new Watford Health Campus, and to the financial and creative services
sectors," she said.

Journey times if Crossrail is extended to Hertfordshire

• Tring to Liverpool Street - 57 minutes (a reduction of 13 minutes)

• Watford Junction to Canary Wharf - 43 minutes (a reduction of 12 minutes)

• Tring to Bond Street - 55 minutes - (a reduction of 16 minutes)

• Watford Junction to Liverpool Street - 37 minutes (a reduction of 13
minutes)

_____________

I must admit I'm surprised that this long-suggested idea hasn't been
adopted much earlier. Instead of having some Crossrail services wastefully
reverse at Paddington, it makes much more sense for them to take over some
of the paths of LM stoppers into Euston. That will be good for many
passengers and businesses and as the article states, take some of the
pressure of Euston during the HS2 rebuild.

In message

, at 03:00:30 on Thu, 7 Aug 2014, Recliner
remarked:
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28680186

Proposals to extend Crossrail to Hertfordshire are being considered by the
government, the transport secretary is expected to announce later.

Extending the service would reduce journey times between London and
Hertfordshire by up to 16 minutes.

At the Crossrail site at Farringdon in central London, Patrick McLoughlin
is expected to outline the benefits of extending the link.

Business groups in the area said an extension would drive economic growth.

'Long-term regeneration'

Mr McLoughlin is expected to say the proposals would take the pressure off
the Tube's busiest sections and make it easier to improve Euston, which
will have 11 new platforms built under proposals for the HS2 high-speed
rail project between London and the West Midlands.

Under the plans, stations likely to get Crossrail services will include
Tring, Hemel Hempstead, Watford Junction, Berkhamsted and Harrow and
Wealdstone.

Yolanda Rugg, chief executive officer at the Hertfordshire Chamber of
Commerce, said the announcement would be "a catalyst to drive economic
growth" in the area.

"It will provide vital high-speed transport connectivity from London to the
new Watford Health Campus, and to the financial and creative services
sectors," she said.

Journey times if Crossrail is extended to Hertfordshire

• Tring to Liverpool Street - 57 minutes (a reduction of 13 minutes)

• Watford Junction to Canary Wharf - 43 minutes (a reduction of 12 minutes)

• Tring to Bond Street - 55 minutes - (a reduction of 16 minutes)

• Watford Junction to Liverpool Street - 37 minutes (a reduction of 13
minutes)

_____________

I must admit I'm surprised that this long-suggested idea hasn't been
adopted much earlier. Instead of having some Crossrail services wastefully
reverse at Paddington, it makes much more sense for them to take over some
of the paths of LM stoppers into Euston. That will be good for many
passengers and businesses and as the article states, take some of the
pressure of Euston during the HS2 rebuild.

What route will they take west of Paddington, and does it involve any
flat-crossings with the busy main line?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 03:00:30 on Thu, 7 Aug 2014, Recliner remarked:
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28680186

Proposals to extend Crossrail to Hertfordshire are being considered by the
government, the transport secretary is expected to announce later.

Extending the service would reduce journey times between London and
Hertfordshire by up to 16 minutes.

At the Crossrail site at Farringdon in central London, Patrick McLoughlin
is expected to outline the benefits of extending the link.

Business groups in the area said an extension would drive economic growth.

'Long-term regeneration'

Mr McLoughlin is expected to say the proposals would take the pressure off
the Tube's busiest sections and make it easier to improve Euston, which
will have 11 new platforms built under proposals for the HS2 high-speed
rail project between London and the West Midlands.

Under the plans, stations likely to get Crossrail services will include
Tring, Hemel Hempstead, Watford Junction, Berkhamsted and Harrow and
Wealdstone.

Yolanda Rugg, chief executive officer at the Hertfordshire Chamber of
Commerce, said the announcement would be "a catalyst to drive economic
growth" in the area.

"It will provide vital high-speed transport connectivity from London to the
new Watford Health Campus, and to the financial and creative services
sectors," she said.

Journey times if Crossrail is extended to Hertfordshire

• Tring to Liverpool Street - 57 minutes (a reduction of 13 minutes)

• Watford Junction to Canary Wharf - 43 minutes (a reduction of 12 minutes)

• Tring to Bond Street - 55 minutes - (a reduction of 16 minutes)

• Watford Junction to Liverpool Street - 37 minutes (a reduction of 13
minutes)

_____________

I must admit I'm surprised that this long-suggested idea hasn't been
adopted much earlier. Instead of having some Crossrail services wastefully
reverse at Paddington, it makes much more sense for them to take over some
of the paths of LM stoppers into Euston. That will be good for many
passengers and businesses and as the article states, take some of the
pressure of Euston during the HS2 rebuild.

What route will they take west of Paddington, and does it involve any
flat-crossings with the busy main line?

I guess there will be grade-separated junctions near OOC and Willesden
Junction. The link will be between the GWR relief and slow WCML lines.
Maybe more will be revealed later today?

In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

I must admit I'm surprised that this long-suggested idea hasn't been
adopted much earlier. Instead of having some Crossrail services wastefully
reverse at Paddington, it makes much more sense for them to take over some
of the paths of LM stoppers into Euston. That will be good for many
passengers and businesses and as the article states, take some of the
pressure of Euston during the HS2 rebuild.

I agree that the Paddington reversal plan has always been pretty
inexplicable. This seems a sensible option, with relief of Euston during HS2
construction an important benefit.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
,
at 03:00:30 on Thu, 7 Aug 2014, Recliner
remarked:
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28680186

Proposals to extend Crossrail to Hertfordshire are being considered by
the government, the transport secretary is expected to announce later.

Extending the service would reduce journey times between London and
Hertfordshire by up to 16 minutes.

At the Crossrail site at Farringdon in central London, Patrick
McLoughlin is expected to outline the benefits of extending the link.

Business groups in the area said an extension would drive economic
growth.

'Long-term regeneration'

Mr McLoughlin is expected to say the proposals would take the pressure
off the Tube's busiest sections and make it easier to improve Euston,
which will have 11 new platforms built under proposals for the HS2
high-speed rail project between London and the West Midlands.

Under the plans, stations likely to get Crossrail services will include
Tring, Hemel Hempstead, Watford Junction, Berkhamsted and Harrow and
Wealdstone.

Yolanda Rugg, chief executive officer at the Hertfordshire Chamber of
Commerce, said the announcement would be "a catalyst to drive economic
growth" in the area.

"It will provide vital high-speed transport connectivity from London to
the new Watford Health Campus, and to the financial and creative
services sectors," she said.

Journey times if Crossrail is extended to Hertfordshire

_ Tring to Liverpool Street - 57 minutes (a reduction of 13
minutes)

_ Watford Junction to Canary Wharf - 43 minutes (a reduction of 12
minutes)

_ Tring to Bond Street - 55 minutes - (a reduction of 16 minutes)

_ Watford Junction to Liverpool Street - 37 minutes (a reduction
of 13 minutes)

_____________

I must admit I'm surprised that this long-suggested idea hasn't been
adopted much earlier. Instead of having some Crossrail services
wastefully reverse at Paddington, it makes much more sense for them to
take over some of the paths of LM stoppers into Euston. That will be
good for many passengers and businesses and as the article states, take
some of the pressure of Euston during the HS2 rebuild.

What route will they take west of Paddington, and does it involve any
flat-crossings with the busy main line?

I guess there will be grade-separated junctions near OOC and Willesden
Junction. The link will be between the GWR relief and slow WCML lines.
Maybe more will be revealed later today?

Slightly to my surprise, OOC wasn't even mentioned in the BBC report which
quoted Patrick McLaughlin.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message

, Recliner wrote:
I guess there will be grade-separated junctions near OOC and Willesden
Junction. The link will be between the GWR relief and slow WCML lines.

An earlier suggestion was a tunnel from OOC to somewhere south of
Wembley Central. Crossrail would take over the DC lines from there, with
the Bakerloo and Overground services terminating in new platforms on the
east side of Wembley Central station (there's already tracks there).

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote:
In message
, Recliner wrote:
I guess there will be grade-separated junctions near OOC and Willesden
Junction. The link will be between the GWR relief and slow WCML lines.

An earlier suggestion was a tunnel from OOC to somewhere south of Wembley
Central. Crossrail would take over the DC lines from there, with the
Bakerloo and Overground services terminating in new platforms on the east
side of Wembley Central station (there's already tracks there).

That makes no sense -- Crossrail needs to be on the slow lines to get to
Tring, not the DC lines, which will also be accommodating the Met to
Watford Junction.

An earlier suggestion was a tunnel from OOC to somewhere south of Wembley
Central. Crossrail would take over the DC lines from there, with the
Bakerloo and Overground services terminating in new platforms on the east
side of Wembley Central station (there's already tracks there).

That makes no sense -- Crossrail needs to be on the slow lines to get to
Tring, not the DC lines, which will also be accommodating the Met to
Watford Junction.

Presumably the earlier suggestion was to terminate at WJ providing a proper metro service from the north west suburbs into Crossrail.

This is a problem with public projects that you start with a perfectly good idea, in this case a fast metro service from the inner home counties, and then every two bit local politician wants a finger in the pie and we get some serious scope creep. Then we get the complaints that its not suitable for the purpose that it wasn't originally designed for and yet more money has to be spent adapting things. (How long before they decide that half the new rolling stock must be reconfigured for long distance use?)

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 04:10:14 -0700 (PDT), Piatkow
wrote:

An earlier suggestion was a tunnel from OOC to somewhere south of Wembley
Central. Crossrail would take over the DC lines from there, with the
Bakerloo and Overground services terminating in new platforms on the east
side of Wembley Central station (there's already tracks there).

That makes no sense -- Crossrail needs to be on the slow lines to get to
Tring, not the DC lines, which will also be accommodating the Met to
Watford Junction.

Presumably the earlier suggestion was to terminate at WJ providing a proper metro service from the north west suburbs into Crossrail.

That would have been some years ago, before the Met planned to go to
WJ, and before the Overground. I don't think Crossrail would have
provided a better service on the DC lines than the Overground and LU
combination.


This is a problem with public projects that you start with a perfectly good idea, in this case a fast metro service from the inner home counties, and then every two bit local politician wants a finger in the pie and we get some serious scope creep. Then we get the complaints that its not suitable for the purpose that it wasn't originally designed for and yet more money has to be spent adapting things. (How long before they decide that half the new rolling stock must be reconfigured for long distance use?)

I think Crossrail had always been planned to go further out than WJ,
and it's long made more sense for it to go to somewhere like Tring.
It's been discussed here in the past, and even Tony Polson agreed it
was a good idea.

But, yes, people are already suggesting long distance trains through
the tunnel, but as it's a TfL project, I don't think that demand will
get very far.

In article ,
(Piatkow) wrote:

An earlier suggestion was a tunnel from OOC to somewhere south of
Wembley Central. Crossrail would take over the DC lines from there,
with the Bakerloo and Overground services terminating in new platforms
on the east side of Wembley Central station (there's already tracks
there).

That makes no sense -- Crossrail needs to be on the slow lines to get to
Tring, not the DC lines, which will also be accommodating the Met to
Watford Junction.

Presumably the earlier suggestion was to terminate at WJ providing a
proper metro service from the north west suburbs into Crossrail.

This is a problem with public projects that you start with a
perfectly good idea, in this case a fast metro service from the inner
home counties, and then every two bit local politician wants a finger
in the pie and we get some serious scope creep. Then we get the
complaints that its not suitable for the purpose that it wasn't
originally designed for and yet more money has to be spent adapting
things. (How long before they decide that half the new rolling stock
must be reconfigured for long distance use?)

Tring is further out than Reading? Huh?

--
Colin Rosenstiel