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Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
There are calls from the newly set-up Ebbsfleet Urban Development Corporation to extend Oyster coverage to Ebbsfleet.
In the Standard, http://www.standard.co.uk/business/m...internalSearch "One priority will be to forge a tram link between the station and Bluewater shopping centre. Another is to extend the current Oyster card system out to Ebbsfleet and provide cheaper fares for the 17-minute ride to St Pancras." |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at
07:36:16 on Fri, 8 Aug 2014, Matthew Dickinson remarked: There are calls from the newly set-up Ebbsfleet Urban Development Corporation to extend Oyster coverage to Ebbsfleet. In the Standard, http://www.standard.co.uk/business/m...roperty-a-seco nd-bite-at-the-cherry-in-this-garden-9653549.html?origin=internalSearch "One priority will be to forge a tram link between the station and Bluewater shopping centre. Another is to extend the current Oyster card system out to Ebbsfleet Extending Oyster to HS1 between St Pancras and Stratford would be a start! and provide cheaper fares for the 17-minute ride to St Pancras." Do they mean "and *thus* provide cheaper fares", or is it a separate wishlist item? It's a bit hopeful for them to expect the HS1 premium to disappear quite so soon. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 07:36:16 on Fri, 8 Aug 2014, Matthew Dickinson remarked: There are calls from the newly set-up Ebbsfleet Urban Development Corporation to extend Oyster coverage to Ebbsfleet. In the Standard, http://www.standard.co.uk/business/m...roperty-a-seco nd-bite-at-the-cherry-in-this-garden-9653549.html?origin=internalSearch "One priority will be to forge a tram link between the station and Bluewater shopping centre. Another is to extend the current Oyster card system out to Ebbsfleet Extending Oyster to HS1 between St Pancras and Stratford would be a start! Thy specifically don't want you to use HS1 for this journey so it will never happen tim |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
"Matthew Dickinson" wrote in message ... There are calls from the newly set-up Ebbsfleet Urban Development Corporation to extend Oyster coverage to Ebbsfleet. In the Standard, http://www.standard.co.uk/business/m...internalSearch "One priority will be to forge a tram link between the station and Bluewater shopping centre. Another is to extend the current Oyster card system out to Ebbsfleet and provide cheaper fares for the 17-minute ride to St Pancras." The plan is to extend Fastrack (buses largely on dedicated roads and bus lanes) to the new development. Fastrack already links Ebbsfleet International ad Bluewater. http://www.go-fastrack.co.uk/video.html Peter |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 16:59:49 on Fri, 8 Aug
2014, tim..... remarked: "One priority will be to forge a tram link between the station and Bluewater shopping centre. Another is to extend the current Oyster card system out to Ebbsfleet Extending Oyster to HS1 between St Pancras and Stratford would be a start! Thy specifically don't want you to use HS1 for this journey so it will never happen Even more so for Ebbsfleet I'd have thought. There's a ten quid premium on the Anytime fare for using HS1. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 16:59:49 on Fri, 8 Aug 2014, tim..... remarked: "One priority will be to forge a tram link between the station and Bluewater shopping centre. Another is to extend the current Oyster card system out to Ebbsfleet Extending Oyster to HS1 between St Pancras and Stratford would be a start! Thy specifically don't want you to use HS1 for this journey so it will never happen Even more so for Ebbsfleet I'd have thought. There's a ten quid premium on the Anytime fare for using HS1. I agree that the premium to EF is a bit too high, but it can't be to price people off the HS service there is no other alternative way of getting there tim |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 09:58:50 on Sat, 9 Aug
2014, tim..... remarked: "One priority will be to forge a tram link between the station and Bluewater shopping centre. Another is to extend the current Oyster card system out to Ebbsfleet Extending Oyster to HS1 between St Pancras and Stratford would be a start! Thy specifically don't want you to use HS1 for this journey so it will never happen Even more so for Ebbsfleet I'd have thought. There's a ten quid premium on the Anytime fare for using HS1. I agree that the premium to EF is a bit too high, but it can't be to price people off the HS service there is no other alternative way of getting there At the moment it's just a car park. The same differential applies to nearby Gravesend (and similar stations into Kent), which do have other ways of getting there. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
I would think that the first place they would want to set up
Oyster/Contactless outside of the zones is Brighton. - Close enough to London, and yet not that close - High passenger volumes during the week and at the weekend. - A lot of people who live in Brighton commute into London - Brighton also has the moniker: "London by the Sea." |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 14:45:22 on Sat, 9 Aug 2014,
" remarked: I would think that the first place they would want to set up Oyster/Contactless outside of the zones is Brighton. It's one of the places that Southern's "the Key" ITSO card supports. The problems at the moment are at the London end, and finishing the much delayed[1] 'ITSO on Prestige' project. I don't know what the first place outside the zones was (there are a few now). Brentwood/Shenfield perhaps [Jan 2013]? Assuming we don't count Watford Junction. - Close enough to London, and yet not that close - High passenger volumes during the week and at the weekend. - A lot of people who live in Brighton commute into London - Brighton also has the moniker: "London by the Sea." [1] ATOC in October 2010: "ATOC is co-ordinating train company input into this exercise and it is hoped that by the end of 2012, all TfL and National Rail Oyster readers will be able to accept ITSO based Travelcards along with Oyster and magnetic stripe tickets." Does this qualify as vapourware?? Paging Mr Corfield! -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 18:24:48 on
Sat, 9 Aug 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 15:23:53 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: [1] ATOC in October 2010: "ATOC is co-ordinating train company input into this exercise and it is hoped that by the end of 2012, all TfL and National Rail Oyster readers will be able to accept ITSO based Travelcards along with Oyster and magnetic stripe tickets." Does this qualify as vapourware?? Paging Mr Corfield! Not sure why I am being paged. You're in charge of vapourware. I was wondering if you agreed this time (a project with a waaaay too optimistic deadline announced). You keep quoting quotes by others. They are all people deeply involved in the project, saying when it'll be ready. I'm not the least bit surprised that there have been delays to this stuff - it's complex involved stuff with probably far, far too many people involved but that's government for you. The last thing anyone needs is for this sort of technology to go spectacularly wrong when being used by the public. This will make people risk averse. The fact is that the Dft sponsored project to modify the TfL estate to read ITSO cards has been completed. It was delayed for a number of reasons including the DfT changing their requirements. As has been mentioned many times this info was in the public domain via updates in TfL's quarterly investment reports. The thing that is delaying actual "switch on" is the need to conclude a commercial agreement with each TOC before their ITSO cards can be accepted. Again this isn't new news. Hmm, four years and counting there. So is it Hip Hip Hooray to the engineers for getting the gates ready first? ps I'm not sure what's so complicated about negotiations to allow TOCs who are already selling paper Travelcards load onto an ITSO card they already issue[1]. Isn't it TfL who have the "agree" to accept them (and if money is involved in loading them, which way is it flowing?) [1] SWT, Southern and EMT at the moment, I suppose. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 20:41:16 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: One day someone might reveal all the gory history but I've got no actual way into the detail these days. I'm merely speculating from the tiny snippets I read here and elsewhere. Someone sent me this link http://issuu.com/abelliogroup/docs/o...july___for_int - take a look at page 5 to get a tiny glimpse of what is being planned by Abellio Greater Anglia for SEFT / ITSO. The fifth page of the file, but numbered page 4. |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 02:33:01
on Sun, 10 Aug 2014, remarked: http://issuu.com/abelliogroup/docs/o...july___for_int - take a look at page 5 to get a tiny glimpse of what is being planned by Abellio Greater Anglia for SEFT / ITSO. The Bluetooth ticketing option is a new one on me. Apparently this allows an App on a smartphone to buy e-tickets wirelessly in a suitably equipped station. Just what we need, another balkanised technology to add to Oyster, ITSO, Contactless, barcodes, NFC-on-phone and of course GSM and Wifi already contacting booking sites from smartphones. But it has attractions for a station operator because it means people travelling from there can be constrained to using that TOC's booking engine and not the one they normally use (unless these facilities are ruled to be something akin to an "Impartial Point of Sale" allowing access to all booking engines, which seems unlikely). Of course, that begs the question of whether these "Bluetooth tickets" from your friendly local GA station will be available for routes off-GA, which could be as popularly mundane as Cambridge-King Cross. (ie Kings Cross, and quite soon all of Thameslink, would have to be fitted out to accept them). In the mean time, it's a welcome addition to my V*p**rw*r* list. Interesting. Roland will also be pleased to see the plans for gates at Ely on page 7. /-) The station is so shallow that I struggle to see how they could put barriers inside, even if they widen the ticket office area. Currently there are significant people-jams when trains arrive from the south in the late afternoon, which take ages to clear because of the narrow doors from the platform and outdoors. (Not helped by the extra footprint used by passengers with bikes, many of which are retrieved from racks on the platform and are therefore doomed to make two trips a day through the barriers). The commonplace queues inside the ticket office also serve to obstruct people-flows like that. From a purely engineering perspective the best place to put the barriers would be in a little compound on the platform, like they have at Grantham: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_GRA/plan.html?rtnloc=GRA http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/ht...s/1964-0030025 ..html Although the peak flow capacity at Ely would still be questionable. The effect on trainspotters, and people accessing the shop/cafe on the platform, while not actually travelling, is simply something that's been caught in the crossfire all over the network :( -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 02:33:01 on Sun, 10 Aug 2014, remarked: http://issuu.com/abelliogroup/docs/o...july___for_int - take a look at page 5 to get a tiny glimpse of what is being planned by Abellio Greater Anglia for SEFT / ITSO. The Bluetooth ticketing option is a new one on me. Apparently this allows an App on a smartphone to buy e-tickets wirelessly in a suitably equipped station. Just what we need, another balkanised technology to add to Oyster, ITSO, Contactless, barcodes, NFC-on-phone and of course GSM and Wifi already contacting booking sites from smartphones. But it has attractions for a station operator because it means people travelling from there can be constrained to using that TOC's booking engine and not the one they normally use (unless these facilities are ruled to be something akin to an "Impartial Point of Sale" allowing access to all booking engines, which seems unlikely). Of course, that begs the question of whether these "Bluetooth tickets" from your friendly local GA station will be available for routes off-GA, which could be as popularly mundane as Cambridge-King Cross. (ie Kings Cross, and quite soon all of Thameslink, would have to be fitted out to accept them). In the mean time, it's a welcome addition to my V*p**rw*r* list. Interesting. Roland will also be pleased to see the plans for gates at Ely on page 7. /-) The station is so shallow that I struggle to see how they could put barriers inside, even if they widen the ticket office area. Currently there are significant people-jams when trains arrive from the south in the late afternoon, which take ages to clear because of the narrow doors from the platform and outdoors. (Not helped by the extra footprint used by passengers with bikes, many of which are retrieved from racks on the platform and are therefore doomed to make two trips a day through the barriers). The commonplace queues inside the ticket office also serve to obstruct people-flows like that. From a purely engineering perspective the best place to put the barriers would be in a little compound on the platform, like they have at Grantham: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_GRA/plan.html?rtnloc=GRA http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/ht...64-0030025.htm l Although the peak flow capacity at Ely would still be questionable. The effect on trainspotters, and people accessing the shop/cafe on the platform, while not actually travelling, is simply something that's been caught in the crossfire all over the network :( I share your concerns. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 22:33:54 on
Sat, 9 Aug 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: [1] ATOC in October 2010: "ATOC is co-ordinating train company input into this exercise and it is hoped that by the end of 2012, all TfL and National Rail Oyster readers will be able to accept ITSO based Travelcards along with Oyster and magnetic stripe tickets." Does this qualify as vapourware?? Paging Mr Corfield! Not sure why I am being paged. You're in charge of vapourware. I was wondering if you agreed this time (a project with a waaaay too optimistic deadline announced). You keep quoting quotes by others. They are all people deeply involved in the project, saying when it'll be ready. So? I've known for about 18 months that the project was running late. I'm not exactly bothered that ATOC, since replaced by the Rail Delivery Group, can't be bothered to update a web page. There are thousands of web pages with out of date project details on them. That page (in common with the others I quote on similar matters) aren't project plans being updated, they are one-off press releases saying something along the lines of "Aren't we clever, lots of new ticketing technology just around the corner". What I'm pointing out is that very often (and especially it seems for new ticketing) these estimates are wildly optimistic and cannot be relied upon at all. Other than as a warning that perhaps many of the other things organisations claim to be in the pipeline are also likely to be over-optimistic. I see, for example, that the new Cambridge Science Park station is already six months late (work started, on schedule, constructing the access road last month, and the station was supposed to be finished in time for the timetable change in December 2015. However it's already slipped to the next timetable change in May 2016.) ps I'm not sure what's so complicated about negotiations to allow TOCs who are already selling paper Travelcards load onto an ITSO card they already issue[1]. Isn't it TfL who have the "agree" to accept them (and if money is involved in loading them, which way is it flowing?) [1] SWT, Southern and EMT at the moment, I suppose. Sales, acceptance and accounting for Travelcards are covered in the Travelcard agreement which all TOCs are party to. I suspect trying to modify the Travelcard Agreement just to reflect ITSO based products is a step too far. Asking all TOCs to be involved and to sign off when some have no ITSO products on their network and may not do so for years is just asking for years of delay. This is something which should be done by ATOC on behalf of all the TOCs. Given each TOC will have their own HOPS and it will need to talk to Tfl's systems and there will need to be data exchange, sharing, revenue settlement etc I can see why there may be complications. Again, I don't know what's so different about revenue settlement at the point of use of a Travelcard (rather than when it's sold). When it's being used all that needs to be done is validate that it's "in Zone". Or are you saying that unbeknown to the passengers they are counting how much the Travelcard is actually (rather than potentially) used on which routes, and divvying up the revenue retrospectively? Someone sent me this link http://issuu.com/abelliogroup/docs/o...july___for_int That's got one of the worst user-interfaces I've ever seen (not your fault, obviously). - take a look at page 5 to get a tiny glimpse of what is being planned by Abellio Greater Anglia for SEFT / ITSO. I expect I'm more likely to be using a TSGN ITSO card (for my travel to London); it'll be interesting to see if those interoperate well with ITSO gates at places like Cambridge which are operated by GA. I'm not holding my breath to be able to add a GA (or any other 'foreign') ITSO ticket onto my TSGN card[1], or onto a local Stagecoach bus ITSO card. [1] Whatever branding it gets, currently it's Southern "the Key" of course. Have they decided to brand themselves GTR long term, or is that just a working title? -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: I see, for example, that the new Cambridge Science Park station is already six months late (work started, on schedule, constructing the access road last month, and the station was supposed to be finished in time for the timetable change in December 2015. However it's already slipped to the next timetable change in May 2016.) It's a lot later than that. When we discussing it at the County Rail Strategy Group we were planning on opening by 2010. Someone sent me this link http://issuu.com/abelliogroup/docs/o...july___for_int That's got one of the worst user-interfaces I've ever seen (not your fault, obviously). You get used to it. :-) It would be nice if they explained what the acronym "STA" used several times actually means. It's obviously something to do with the direct franchise award. - take a look at page 5 to get a tiny glimpse of what is being planned by Abellio Greater Anglia for SEFT / ITSO. I expect I'm more likely to be using a TSGN ITSO card (for my travel to London); it'll be interesting to see if those interoperate well with ITSO gates at places like Cambridge which are operated by GA. Since they don't recognise their own tickets at the gates sometimes I wouldn't be in the least surprised. Will they ever issue Super Off-Peak Day Travelcards that are recognised by SWT gates for that matter? [1] Whatever branding it gets, currently it's Southern "the Key" of course. Have they decided to brand themselves GTR long term, or is that just a working title? They are branding the line from King's Lynn to London as "Great Northern", surely? Will GTR be any more prominent that LER was? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 04:56:23
on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: I see, for example, that the new Cambridge Science Park station is already six months late (work started, on schedule, constructing the access road last month, and the station was supposed to be finished in time for the timetable change in December 2015. However it's already slipped to the next timetable change in May 2016.) It's a lot later than that. When we discussing it at the County Rail Strategy Group we were planning on opening by 2010. But did that strategy group go public with an "Expected opening date"? The current station project is the first one to have enough legs to be able to promise something, I think. Someone sent me this link http://issuu.com/abelliogroup/docs/o...july___for_int That's got one of the worst user-interfaces I've ever seen (not your fault, obviously). You get used to it. :-) And clearly the web designers with monitors the size of 40-inch TVs are very used to what they see. Someone should insist they do at least some of their testing on a laptop (the 'two pages side by side' view is illegible on mine, and the 'full screen page at a time' view took me half a dozen attempts to find the correct, and yet obscure, icons to click on. It would be nice if they explained what the acronym "STA" used several times actually means. It's obviously something to do with the direct franchise award. I'd love to be able to search the publication for "STA", but their awful display format has rendered my browser's built-in search facility useless, so there's yet another learning curve to engage their own search. Which only takes me to the page, not the actual text. From the context, and the fact they've been awarded a temporary extension while the DfT gets its act together for new tendering, I suggest it means "Short Term Agreement". See also: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p.../view/greater- anglia-direct-award-franchise-agreed.html - take a look at page 5 to get a tiny glimpse of what is being planned by Abellio Greater Anglia for SEFT / ITSO. I expect I'm more likely to be using a TSGN ITSO card (for my travel to London); it'll be interesting to see if those interoperate well with ITSO gates at places like Cambridge which are operated by GA. Since they don't recognise their own tickets at the gates sometimes I wouldn't be in the least surprised. Will they ever issue Super Off-Peak Day Travelcards that are recognised by SWT gates for that matter? [1] Whatever branding it gets, currently it's Southern "the Key" of course. Have they decided to brand themselves GTR long term, or is that just a working title? They are branding the line from King's Lynn to London as "Great Northern", surely? Will GTR be any more prominent that LER was? LER was to NXEA, what East Coast Main Line Company Limited is to East Coast. (A more different name, but still different. Back in the day the company known "Access", was actually "The joint credit card company Ltd"). Although Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd appears to be dormant: http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/07934306 If the Kings Lynn line is to be officially "GN", does this mean that in a few years when a GTR train pulls into Farringdon on its way north that it'll be announced as a GN train if heading for Peterborough/Cambridge, and something else... perhaps Thameslink if heading for Bedford. Doesn't that rather balkanise the new integrated TSGN franchise? -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 04:56:23 on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: I see, for example, that the new Cambridge Science Park station is already six months late (work started, on schedule, constructing the access road last month, and the station was supposed to be finished in time for the timetable change in December 2015. However it's already slipped to the next timetable change in May 2016.) It's a lot later than that. When we discussing it at the County Rail Strategy Group we were planning on opening by 2010. But did that strategy group go public with an "Expected opening date"? Not as firm as that. The current station project is the first one to have enough legs to be able to promise something, I think. Indeed. Someone sent me this link http://issuu.com/abelliogroup/docs/o...july___for_int That's got one of the worst user-interfaces I've ever seen (not your fault, obviously). You get used to it. :-) And clearly the web designers with monitors the size of 40-inch TVs are very used to what they see. Someone should insist they do at least some of their testing on a laptop (the 'two pages side by side' view is illegible on mine, and the 'full screen page at a time' view took me half a dozen attempts to find the correct, and yet obscure, icons to click on. The main problem is getting sued to the scrolling methodology which makes it perfectly legible on my 12" laptop. It would be nice if they explained what the acronym "STA" used several times actually means. It's obviously something to do with the direct franchise award. I'd love to be able to search the publication for "STA", but their awful display format has rendered my browser's built-in search facility useless, so there's yet another learning curve to engage their own search. Which only takes me to the page, not the actual text. It's in most of the articles in the second half of the document. I agree with you about the bad presentation. From the context, and the fact they've been awarded a temporary extension while the DfT gets its act together for new tendering, I suggest it means "Short Term Agreement". See also: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...greater-anglia -direct-award-franchise-agreed.html Which does nothing to answer the question. - take a look at page 5 to get a tiny glimpse of what is being planned by Abellio Greater Anglia for SEFT / ITSO. I expect I'm more likely to be using a TSGN ITSO card (for my travel to London); it'll be interesting to see if those interoperate well with ITSO gates at places like Cambridge which are operated by GA. Since they don't recognise their own tickets at the gates sometimes I wouldn't be in the least surprised. Will they ever issue Super Off-Peak Day Travelcards that are recognised by SWT gates for that matter? [1] Whatever branding it gets, currently it's Southern "the Key" of course. Have they decided to brand themselves GTR long term, or is that just a working title? They are branding the line from King's Lynn to London as "Great Northern", surely? Will GTR be any more prominent that LER was? LER was to NXEA, what East Coast Main Line Company Limited is to East Coast. (A more different name, but still different. Back in the day the company known "Access", was actually "The joint credit card company Ltd"). Although Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd appears to be dormant: http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/07934306 I'd check again in September if I were you. If the Kings Lynn line is to be officially "GN", does this mean that in a few years when a GTR train pulls into Farringdon on its way north that it'll be announced as a GN train if heading for Peterborough/Cambridge, and something else... perhaps Thameslink if heading for Bedford. Doesn't that rather balkanise the new integrated TSGN franchise? They seem to do exactly that from the stakeholder presentation I've seen. It shows "Gatwick Express", "Southern", "Great Northern" and "Thameslink" brands as well as "Govia". -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
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Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
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Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 06:39:25 on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: From the context, and the fact they've been awarded a temporary extension while the DfT gets its act together for new tendering, I suggest it means "Short Term Agreement". See also: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p.../greater-angli a-direct-award-franchise-agreed.html Which does nothing to answer the question. "The short-term agreement features a £20m package of improvements which includes..." Your surmise then. No use of or decoding of the acronym. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 06:39:25 on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: If the Kings Lynn line is to be officially "GN", does this mean that in a few years when a GTR train pulls into Farringdon on its way north that it'll be announced as a GN train if heading for Peterborough/ Cambridge, and something else... perhaps Thameslink if heading for Bedford. Doesn't that rather balkanise the new integrated TSGN franchise? They seem to do exactly that from the stakeholder presentation I've seen. It shows "Gatwick Express", "Southern", "Great Northern" and "Thameslink" brands as well as "Govia". I've found this in the trade press: "The Thameslink brand is to be re-introduced, and Southern and Gatwick Express brands retained." No mention of GN, and could encompass using GTR on all the 'Thameslink' services. Another possibility is they might use GN temporarily until through-running starts, but that leaves the Kings Lynn-Kings Cross services out on a limb. Look at the GTR material which makes the planned use of the "Great Northern" brand very clear, even to argumentative Usenet users. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 09:01:32
on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: From the context, and the fact they've been awarded a temporary extension while the DfT gets its act together for new tendering, I suggest it means "Short Term Agreement". See also: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p.../greater-angli a-direct-award-franchise-agreed.html Which does nothing to answer the question. "The short-term agreement features a £20m package of improvements which includes..." Your surmise then. No use of or decoding of the acronym. It's the only meaning that makes any sense. Especially as Abellio are crowing (in their stunningly inaccessible e-magazine) about how they have several unprecedented things happening in the STA period which map closely to those mentioned in the article. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 14:32:46 on
Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Another possibility is they might use GN temporarily until through-running starts, but that leaves the Kings Lynn-Kings Cross services out on a limb. I understand they're going to call the Kings Lynn service the "Perry Express Rail Link" ;-) Today it's kind-of the "Fen Line" (in whose user-group magazine I've been featured giving a grumpy interview). But "Perry Express Ra*I*l Link" has a certain appeal. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
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Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
On Monday, 11 August 2014 15:30:05 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:01:32 on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: Another possibility is they might use GN temporarily until through-running starts, but that leaves the Kings Lynn-Kings Cross services out on a limb. Look at the GTR material which makes the planned use of the "Great Northern" brand very clear, For the duration, or just until Thameslink 2018 is finished? Remember, I'm interested in what the PIS will say. Comments like this one (Wikipedia) don't count, because FCC don't call the trains GN (or even Thameslink) currently: "From September 2014 Govia will take over Great Northern and Thameslink routes from First Capital Connect, serving 122 stations and operating a fleet of 226 trains." http://www.govia.info/gtr/our-plans/ 'Thameslink' identity restored for services running through central core; 'Great Northern' for Kings Cross/Moorgate services. which says to me that the brand will be Great Northern for all services until 2018, after which it would be retained for the Kings Cross to Kings Lynn and the Moorgate to Welwyn and Hertford services only. |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 09:01:32 on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: Another possibility is they might use GN temporarily until through-running starts, but that leaves the Kings Lynn-Kings Cross services out on a limb. Look at the GTR material which makes the planned use of the "Great Northern" brand very clear, For the duration, or just until Thameslink 2018 is finished? Remember, I'm interested in what the PIS will say. Comments like this one (Wikipedia) don't count, because FCC don't call the trains GN (or even Thameslink) currently: "From September 2014 Govia will take over Great Northern and Thameslink routes from First Capital Connect, serving 122 stations and operating a fleet of 226 trains." It's just the name of the line, not the brand name of the service. I have in front of me "Factsheet 2" issued to stakeholders in Cambridge on 15th July. It has "Great Northern", "GTR" and "Govia" brands at the foot and shows the "Great Northern 'Outer' services" including those from 2018 via SPILL to Blackfriars and beyond. It's on the web at http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/c...t%202%20-%20Gr eat%20Northern%20outer%20services.pdf It's all at http://www.govia.info/gtr/. even to argumentative Usenet users. Moi? If the cap fits, as we used to say. :-) See you at Tim and Kate's on Saturday? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 09:01:32 on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: From the context, and the fact they've been awarded a temporary extension while the DfT gets its act together for new tendering, I suggest it means "Short Term Agreement". See also: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...w/greater-angl ia-direct-award-franchise-agreed.html Which does nothing to answer the question. "The short-term agreement features a £20m package of improvements which includes..." Your surmise then. No use of or decoding of the acronym. It's the only meaning that makes any sense. Especially as Abellio are crowing (in their stunningly inaccessible e-magazine) about how they have several unprecedented things happening in the STA period which map closely to those mentioned in the article. I suppose there is that. Hardly transparent though. The inward-facing nature of the publication is also suggested by giving their intranet username and password. I wonder why? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
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Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
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Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
Colin Rosenstiel wrote
The presentation to stakeholders is http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/c...anchise%20pres entation.pdf. Promises ticket machines at all stations. Are they really justified at Doleham, Three Oaks, or Norman's Bay? Peter |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
wrote in message ... In article , () wrote: It's all at http://www.govia.info/gtr/. The presentation to stakeholders is http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/c...anchise%20pres entation.pdf. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article ,
(Peter Masson) wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote The presentation to stakeholders is http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/c...ranchise%20pre sentation.pdf. Promises ticket machines at all stations. Are they really justified at Doleham, Three Oaks, or Norman's Bay? Don't they need something for Penalty Fares? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 09:58:01
on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: I have in front of me "Factsheet 2" issued to stakeholders in Cambridge on 15th July. It has "Great Northern", "GTR" and "Govia" brands at the foot and shows the "Great Northern 'Outer' services" including those from 2018 via SPILL to Blackfriars and beyond. It's on the web at http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/c...t%202%20-%20Gr eat%20Northern%20outer%20services.pdf It's all at http://www.govia.info/gtr/. I'm still wondering if "Great Northern" will be a sub-branding, like GA's "Bittern Line" or EMT's "Robin Hood Line". Elsewhere there are suggestions they'll be keeping Southern and Gatwick Express branding, as well as introducing Thameslink and GA. Are they really going to have four websites, four Android Apps, four delay/repay schemes, smartcard schemes (etc etc). As well as four different names on the PIS and NRES data feeds etc. Although it raises the interesting possibility that the cheaper "Thameslink only" fares competing with "Any permitted" (in effect Southern) fares on the Brighton line will remain. [And booking sites do still offer those fares after the hand-over date] See you at Tim and Kate's on Saturday? Yes. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 15:22:11 on
Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Given each TOC will have their own HOPS and it will need to talk to Tfl's systems and there will need to be data exchange, sharing, revenue settlement etc I can see why there may be complications. Again, I don't know what's so different about revenue settlement at the point of use of a Travelcard (rather than when it's sold). When it's being used all that needs to be done is validate that it's "in Zone". Funny I always thought the Travelcard apportionment was done on a trip basis by mode but I might be wrong. Not a "trips done by that cardholder", though? There are too many places with no gates, or locked out, for it to be able to count on that basis. Again I doubt smartcard data is accepted as a primary data source rather than the long established survey process. I do expect the parties look at Oyster data as an additional source. Long term apportionments based on surveys and other data sources is what I'd expect. So the gates don't need to be precisely logging the individual ITSO travelcards going through, just making sure they are valid. Or are you saying that unbeknown to the passengers they are counting how much the Travelcard is actually (rather than potentially) used on which routes, and divvying up the revenue retrospectively? Of course they are counting journey data. If it wasn't important why do Southern insist that the Key card is touched in and out even when you have a single ticket on the card? Like Oyster (who similarly insist even for Travelcard holders) to get people into the habit, and so the people whose cards *do* need to be touched in and out for validation purposes don't observe lots of other people not touching them in and out. Also, for singles, even if it's just a validator rather than a gate, the touching in/out process will allow long term statistics to be gathered about actual journeys made, rather than what's been bought (including people making longer rather than shorter trips). Quite whether they are cross checking against Travelcards I don't know. I would expect TOCs to look at the data to see how many trips are made with season tickets and how many are normal commutes and how many are leisure journeys. That's just an interesting bit of data any rail company would want to know if it can be reasonably certain about the data quality. Again, that data is useful and by all means gather it. But there are too many "holes" for it to be used to apportion the cost of supplying travel to individual travelcard holders. I expect I'm more likely to be using a TSGN ITSO card (for my travel to London); it'll be interesting to see if those interoperate well with ITSO gates at places like Cambridge which are operated by GA. Well that's for Govia and AGA to sort out. There is no central "guiding hand" which is why you get the nonsense of some mag tickets with special validities not being recognised. I'd expect the DfT would 'guide' them all, in order for SEFT to be a success rather than a balkanised mess. I'm not holding my breath to be able to add a GA (or any other 'foreign') ITSO ticket onto my TSGN card[1], or onto a local Stagecoach bus ITSO card. I think the bus stuff might be a step too far *unless* there is a lot of customer pressure to force Stagecoach and Govia to work together. There is actually a fair bit of overlap along the line of the TSGN franchise so never say never. I'm not suggesting inter-availability of ticketing (well, not yet, although given you can buy a GA rail ticket with Stagecoach Plusbus, that should be some sort of long term goal). No, what I'm looking for is a reduction in card-bloat, so that I can load my bus tickets, and different TOC tickets, separately onto one card. The barriers can work out which single-mode ticket is the one they are looking for when I touch in/out. If that doesn't happen, I'm still not sure onto whose smartcard I'd expect to load a ticket for an EMT train, on a route whose pricing was set by XC, bought from the EC website and collected at a GA station. [Ely-Peterborough on a Norwich-Liverpool train]. Quite likely the first casualty would be my ability to pick and choose the booking site. Ultimately it may turn out (short term hopefully) that only trips between same-TOC stations on tickets bought through that TOC would work (loaded onto that TOC's card - but see below for acceptance on-train when travelling on a different TOC). Unfortunately, for my Ely-Peterborough trip one station is GA, the other EC, neither is XC or EMT, EC doesn't serve the route and GA only serves it 0.5tph. I expect South East Flexible Ticketing will have to sort out inter operator acceptance for valid rail tickets. To not do so would be lunacy. On the trains, of course. When I travel back from Cambridge to Ely it's literally the luck of the draw whether I catch XC, GA or FCC; each of them being 1tph (although not equally spread through the hour). [1] Whatever branding it gets, currently it's Southern "the Key" of course. Have they decided to brand themselves GTR long term, or is that just a working title? All Go Ahead businesses use the "Key" brand name for their transport smartcard so I can't see TSGN being any different. They refer to the Key in their documents related to the franchise changes. I don't doubt they'll keep "the Key", but will there be an ongoing "Southern the Key" and new "Thameslink the Key" and "Great Northern the Key" cards, or will they rename the Southern product as "GTR[1] the Key" and have it valid over all their routes? [1] Or some other as yet unannounced branding like "Govia Capital Connect" [only joking about the actual words there, but things like this do matter, as FCC found out when the PIS at Kings Cross cropped them to "First Capital Con"]. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 09:58:01 on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, remarked: I have in front of me "Factsheet 2" issued to stakeholders in Cambridge on 15th July. It has "Great Northern", "GTR" and "Govia" brands at the foot and shows the "Great Northern 'Outer' services" including those from 2018 via SPILL to Blackfriars and beyond. It's on the web at http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/c...et%202%20-%20G reat%20Northern%20outer%20services.pdf It's all at http://www.govia.info/gtr/. I'm still wondering if "Great Northern" will be a sub-branding, like GA's "Bittern Line" or EMT's "Robin Hood Line". Not the way it is shown on that material. I assume you have looked at it? Elsewhere there are suggestions they'll be keeping Southern and Gatwick Express branding, as well as introducing Thameslink and GA. It's what the Powerpoint says. Are they really going to have four websites, four Android Apps, four delay/repay schemes, smartcard schemes (etc etc). As well as four different names on the PIS and NRES data feeds etc. Does Stansted express do that? Although it raises the interesting possibility that the cheaper "Thameslink only" fares competing with "Any permitted" (in effect Southern) fares on the Brighton line will remain. [And booking sites do still offer those fares after the hand-over date] Intriguing point, especially as Southern have cheap through deals with GA. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
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Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In message , at 05:41:49
on Tue, 12 Aug 2014, remarked: I'm still wondering if "Great Northern" will be a sub-branding, like GA's "Bittern Line" or EMT's "Robin Hood Line". Not the way it is shown on that material. I assume you have looked at it? Of course I have, but it doesn't say anything that might dispel my proposition. Elsewhere there are suggestions they'll be keeping Southern and Gatwick Express branding, as well as introducing Thameslink and GA. It's what the Powerpoint says. Just as "Robin Hood Line" is one of EMT's brands. Are they really going to have four websites, four Android Apps, four delay/repay schemes, smartcard schemes (etc etc). As well as four different names on the PIS and NRES data feeds etc. Does Stansted express do that? No, but those trains are shown as GA on the customer-facing databases. eg RTT just now: 1215 Stansted Airport to London Liverpool Street Greater Anglia service as opposed to: 1220 Gatwick Airport to London Victoria Gatwick Express service Stansted Express has its own website though, but somewhat spoils the consistent image by asking for delay compensation claims to be sent to . and in the footer says: "Stansted Express is operated by Abellio Greater Anglia Ltd" Gatwick Express has its own dedicated Delay-Repay form [albeit including text like "For all ticket holders please give details of your delayed journey with Southern that you are claiming against" and giving a Southern Rail address to send it to!] but shares a dual-branded passenger charter with Southern. All a bit of a muddle, really. And what we want to know is how will all of this map across to trips to Cambridge. Although it raises the interesting possibility that the cheaper "Thameslink only" fares competing with "Any permitted" (in effect Southern) fares on the Brighton line will remain. [And booking sites do still offer those fares after the hand-over date] Intriguing point, especially as Southern have cheap through deals with GA. Those too. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
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Oyster to Ebbsfleet?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 05:41:50 on Tue, 12 Aug 2014, remarked: [1] Or some other as yet unannounced branding like "Govia Capital Connect" [only joking about the actual words there, but things like this do matter, as FCC found out when the PIS at Kings Cross cropped them to "First Capital Con"]. Leading me to wonder what the new franchise will have on the PIS from September. Oh do keep up... that's what I've been wondering for days - and whether it's the same thing for all their Non-Gatex routes, or three different things. We've even been speculating about whether from 2018 trains from Cambridge will be on the PIS as "Greater Northern" and "Thameslink" depending on where they end up south of Finsbury Park. As I said the Great Northern factsheet shows their trains continuing to Blackfriars from 2018. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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