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All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
From
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...e-night-trains Trains will run through the night from 12 September 2015, with six running an hour across the five “night tube” lines – Jubilee, Victoria and most of the Piccadilly, Central and Northern lines. Transport for London (TfL) said the move would support almost 2,000 permanent jobs and provide a £360m boost to the economy. Demand for overnight tube services, matching New York and Berlin, has been demonstrated by the increasing numbers of late-night London Underground journeys, which have risen at twice the rate of daytime trips since 2000 – a period in which night bus usage almost trebled. Boris Johnson, mayor of London, said: “Running trains all through the night was once thought impossible, but with the huge investment we’ve put in and upgrades that have been delivered we stand ready to take the tube to the next level. The evolution of the night tube will without doubt make London an even better place to live, work, visit and invest.” Mike Brown, the managing director of London Underground, said: “Already over half a million Londoners use the Tube after 10pm on Fridays and Saturdays, and the introduction of the night tube, which will cut journey times and open up new possibilities across the nighttime economy, is a historic step in our modernisation of London Underground.” He said TfL was seeking a sponsor for the service, despite criticism over previous deals. Neither Barclays nor Emirates’ sponsorship of the cycle hire and cable car have covered costs, while a previous deal with the Wonga loan firm for late-night tube travel at the new year caused controversy. Unions have accused TfL of trying to divert the public from its wider programme of redundancies. Mick Cash, the new RMT general secretary, said: “Whilst RMT is not against night running of the tube in principle, provided all staff involved are properly rewarded and that safety and security is thoroughly worked out and agreed, the truth is that the mayor threw this plan in as a diversion from his massive cuts and closures programme that will axe a thousand staff and decimate services and safety.” The launch of 24-hour weekend tubes coincides with the start of the third-largest international sporting event, the Rugby World Cup, which will be hosted by England from 18 September. An estimated 400,000 overseas visitors are expected, with three venues hosting key matches in the capital. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
In message
, at 02:19:48 on Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Recliner remarked: From http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...rground-24-hou r-tube-night-trains Trains will run through the night from 12 September 2015, with six running an hour across the five “night tube” lines – Jubilee, Victoria and most of the Piccadilly, Central and Northern lines. Transport for London (TfL) said the move would support almost 2,000 permanent jobs and provide a £360m boost to the economy. .... Mick Cash, the new RMT general secretary, said... the truth is that the mayor threw this plan in as a diversion from his massive cuts and closures programme that will axe a thousand staff and decimate services and safety.” So what is it: 2,000 more or 1,000 less? -- Roland Perry |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
In article
, (Recliner) wrote: From http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...nd-24-hour-tub e-night-trains Trains will run through the night from 12 September 2015, with six running an hour across the five _night tube_ lines _ Jubilee, Victoria and most of the Piccadilly, Central and Northern lines. Transport for London (TfL) said the move would support almost 2,000 permanent jobs and provide a 360m boost to the economy. Demand for overnight tube services, matching New York and Berlin, has been demonstrated by the increasing numbers of late-night London Underground journeys, which have risen at twice the rate of daytime trips since 2000 - a period in which night bus usage almost trebled. Boris Johnson, mayor of London, said: "Running trains all through the night was once thought impossible, but with the huge investment we've put in and upgrades that have been delivered we stand ready to take the tube to the next level. The evolution of the night tube will without doubt make London an even better place to live, work, visit and invest." Mike Brown, the managing director of London Underground, said: "Already over half a million Londoners use the Tube after 10pm on Fridays and Saturdays, and the introduction of the night tube, which will cut journey times and open up new possibilities across the nighttime economy, is a historic step in our modernisation of London Underground." He said TfL was seeking a sponsor for the service, despite criticism over previous deals. Neither Barclays nor Emirates' sponsorship of the cycle hire and cable car have covered costs, while a previous deal with the Wonga loan firm for late-night tube travel at the new year caused controversy. Unions have accused TfL of trying to divert the public from its wider programme of redundancies. Mick Cash, the new RMT general secretary, said: "Whilst RMT is not against night running of the tube in principle, provided all staff involved are properly rewarded and that safety and security is thoroughly worked out and agreed, the truth is that the mayor threw this plan in as a diversion from his massive cuts and closures programme that will axe a thousand staff and decimate services and safety." The launch of 24-hour weekend tubes coincides with the start of the third-largest international sporting event, the Rugby World Cup, which will be hosted by England from 18 September. An estimated 400,000 overseas visitors are expected, with three venues hosting key matches in the capital. With a picture of the District Line at Earl's Court. Doh! -- Colin Rosenstiel |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
In message , at 11:37:18 on
Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Transport for London (TfL) said the move would support almost 2,000 permanent jobs and provide a £360m boost to the economy. ... Mick Cash, the new RMT general secretary, said... the truth is that the mayor threw this plan in as a diversion from his massive cuts and closures programme that will axe a thousand staff and decimate services and safety.” So what is it: 2,000 more or 1,000 less? I rather suspect the 2,000 jobs are jobs in the wider economy not in TfL / LU. That's how I read it. Given the number of taxi and bus drivers it'll put out of a job, I'm not sure where the increase in jobs outside TfL will come from. If it requires 2,000 people to run a partial Night Tube service then something's seriously wrong! Shift working for drivers, signallers, station staff etc. I don't know how many they require for the current manning pattern on those lines, but it'll need an increase of two shifts a week. I wonder what they'll do about cleaning and maintaining the trains those nights - not bother, or do half on a Friday night and the other half Saturday night? It is clear that circa 1,000 posts are to be removed from LU. I think it is in the high 900s but TUs will always round up the number. -- Roland Perry |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
In message , at 11:42:15 on
Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Whether people want to pay two fares - tube and connecting bus - compared to a single bus fare on a direct night bus remains to be seen. Season ticket (Travelcard) holders, daily Oyster/CPC capping etc. What this will bring into focus is when exactly the end of the capping day is, 0430 currently, which should cope with most of the "party animals". -- Roland Perry |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
And still no comment or intent as to what happens to the Night Bus
network and whether extra buses will be added in the suburbs to give convenient links perhaps offset by reductions on the busier trunk routes that parallel main tube lines. I don't know anybody who has a problem over the time of the last tube. What is a problem is the time of the last connecting bus or National Rail service. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 2014-09-24 10:42:15 +0000, Paul Corfield said:
Whether people want to pay two fares - tube and connecting bus - compared to a single bus fare on a direct night bus remains to be seen. Time for me to moot the idea of a full Verbundtarif again, which would remove discrepancies like these? Or at the very least connectional Tube-bus fares, which would retain the motivation not to use the Tube when busy and still tick the "bus is cheaper for those of limited income" box? By that I mean that if you make a Tube journey, connecting bus journeys would be included in the price. This would avoid the currently very unfair situation where those not served directly by the Tube are further disadvantaged by paying more. Not to mention the bus equivalent, where those journeys requiring two buses are penalised. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 11:46:01 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message , at 11:37:18 on Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Transport for London (TfL) said the move would support almost 2,000 permanent jobs and provide a 360m boost to the economy. ... Mick Cash, the new RMT general secretary, said... the truth is that the mayor threw this plan in as a diversion from his massive cuts and closures programme that will axe a thousand staff and decimate services and safety. So what is it: 2,000 more or 1,000 less? I rather suspect the 2,000 jobs are jobs in the wider economy not in TfL / LU. That's how I read it. Given the number of taxi and bus drivers it'll put out of a job, I'm not sure where the increase in jobs outside TfL will come from. I don't suppose there will be any reduction in night buses. And I don't suppose any taxi drivers will be put out of a job. If it requires 2,000 people to run a partial Night Tube service then something's seriously wrong! Shift working for drivers, signallers, station staff etc. I don't know how many they require for the current manning pattern on those lines, but it'll need an increase of two shifts a week. I wonder what they'll do about cleaning and maintaining the trains those nights - not bother, or do half on a Friday night and the other half Saturday night? It's only a limited service on a subset of lines for two nights a week, so the fleet will still be in a depot for at least five nights a week. Even on those weekend nights, only a reduced fleet will be in service. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
In message , at
04:05:07 on Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Piatkow remarked: And still no comment or intent as to what happens to the Night Bus network and whether extra buses will be added in the suburbs to give convenient links perhaps offset by reductions on the busier trunk routes that parallel main tube lines. I don't know anybody who has a problem over the time of the last tube. What is a problem is the time of the last connecting bus or National Rail service. Last tubes are a "problem" for people whose destination is near a tube station, and they want to stay out in the evening. It's not about connecting to bus or National Rail. -- Roland Perry |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 2014\09\24 11:46, Roland Perry wrote:
Given the number of taxi and bus drivers it'll put out of a job, I'm not sure where the increase in jobs outside TfL will come from. Proper taxi drivers will probably do well out of it, since it will keep suburban ranks busy all night, and reduce long loss-making jobs for central area drivers to the suburbs... but thousands of minicab drivers might be out of a "job". |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
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Quote:
As for minicab drivers, those working for firms near suburban stations will do quite well because undoubtedly people will travel in the early hours to the station nearest their home and get a minicab for the last leg of the journey. The drivers who will suffer are those - mostly unlicensed - minicab drivers who tout for work in Central London and then charge rip-off prices to the suburbs. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 12:37:39 +0100
Recliner wrote: It's only a limited service on a subset of lines for two nights a week, so the fleet will still be in a depot for at least five nights a week. Even on those weekend nights, only a reduced fleet will be in service. Anyone know the reason why its only deep level tube lines? I'd have thought the sub surface lines would have been the easiest to run a night service on wrt to maintenance. -- Spud |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
In message , at 19:44:51 on
Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Introducing the "Night Tube" does raise the issue of what happens if there is planned engineering work. Do we get "night tube replacement bus services"? Or they could do the work on Sun-Thu nights only. For serious stuff they could close it all day Sunday (from 4am anyway), as they do already. -- Roland Perry |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
In message , at 21:11:22 on
Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Introducing the "Night Tube" does raise the issue of what happens if there is planned engineering work. Do we get "night tube replacement bus services"? Or they could do the work on Sun-Thu nights only. And it would take rather long than if every night was available - Yes, but we have to assume they've done their sums. In particular why this new initiative is only possible after a whole year of normal/ current timetabling. especially Sat to Sun which is the longest break in service because of the later Sunday start times. The SSR resignalling is already up against it in terms of time. In order to save face I imagine LU will want maximum productivity on multiple sites every night of the week (assuming no clashes). For serious stuff they could close it all day Sunday (from 4am anyway), as they do already. Serious stuff needs 52 hours, sometimes longer. This is why you get Friday night to Monday morning closures. These could still take place. I don't think they've announced that "night tubes" will be any more uninterruptable than the current ones. -- Roland Perry |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 24/09/2014 12:05, Piatkow wrote: And still no comment or intent as to what happens to the Night Bus network and whether extra buses will be added in the suburbs to give convenient links perhaps offset by reductions on the busier trunk routes that parallel main tube lines. I don't know anybody who has a problem over the time of the last tube. I know plenty. Just past midnight (bearing in mind one needs to actually be on the platform) is a bit too early for many. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 24/09/2014 11:46, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:37:18 on Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: [...] So what is it: 2,000 more or 1,000 less? I rather suspect the 2,000 jobs are jobs in the wider economy not in TfL / LU. That's how I read it. Given the number of taxi and bus drivers it'll put out of a job, I'm not sure where the increase in jobs outside TfL will come from. The 'night time economy'. Which, in the case of London, is very much a real thing. Dare I say perhaps one needs to see it to believe it. Certain places (not just the west end) are busy. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 24/09/2014 11:48, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:42:15 on Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Whether people want to pay two fares - tube and connecting bus - compared to a single bus fare on a direct night bus remains to be seen. Season ticket (Travelcard) holders, daily Oyster/CPC capping etc. Yes, but the point still stands. Loads of people heading into town for a night out still won't hit the cap. What this will bring into focus is when exactly the end of the capping day is, 0430 currently, which should cope with most of the "party animals". |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 2014\09\24 18:08, Robin9 wrote:
'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote: ;144764']On 2014\09\24 11:46, Roland Perry wrote:- Given the number of taxi and bus drivers it'll put out of a job, I'm not sure where the increase in jobs outside TfL will come from.- Proper taxi drivers will probably do well out of it, since it will keep suburban ranks busy all night, and reduce long loss-making jobs for central area drivers to the suburbs... but thousands of minicab drivers might be out of a "job". There are not suburban taxi ranks throughout the outer suburbs. As for minicab drivers, those working for firms near suburban stations will do quite well because undoubtedly people will travel in the early hours to the station nearest their home and get a minicab for the last leg of the journey. The drivers who will suffer are those - mostly unlicensed - minicab drivers who tout for work in Central London and then charge rip-off prices to the suburbs. .... who will give up working Central London and work the suburbs instead, taking work off the drivers who you say will do well? |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 2014\09\24 23:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:21:41 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: Serious stuff needs 52 hours, sometimes longer. This is why you get Friday night to Monday morning closures. These could still take place. I don't think they've announced that "night tubes" will be any more uninterruptable than the current ones. I agree that such an announcement hasn't been made. However there is a credibility point about not launching a new service and then immediately cancelling it for umpteen weekends in a row. All that will do is upset prospective passengers and give the media an easy story to beat TfL with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly ;-) Does anyone know why the Bakerloo has been left out? |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
In message , at 00:16:46 on Thu, 25 Sep
2014, Mizter T remarked: [...] So what is it: 2,000 more or 1,000 less? I rather suspect the 2,000 jobs are jobs in the wider economy not in TfL / LU. That's how I read it. Given the number of taxi and bus drivers it'll put out of a job, I'm not sure where the increase in jobs outside TfL will come from. The 'night time economy'. Which, in the case of London, is very much a real thing. Dare I say perhaps one needs to see it to believe it. Certain places (not just the west end) are busy. Not ladies of the night, surely? -- Roland Perry |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 07:02:01 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote: On 2014\09\24 23:55, Paul Corfield wrote: On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:21:41 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: Serious stuff needs 52 hours, sometimes longer. This is why you get Friday night to Monday morning closures. These could still take place. I don't think they've announced that "night tubes" will be any more uninterruptable than the current ones. I agree that such an announcement hasn't been made. However there is a credibility point about not launching a new service and then immediately cancelling it for umpteen weekends in a row. All that will do is upset prospective passengers and give the media an easy story to beat TfL with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly ;-) Does anyone know why the Bakerloo has been left out? Just speculation, but presumably the trains would sometimes be unable to use NR tracks overnight, thus limiting the service to south of Queen's Park (which would limit its usefulness). But the main depot is further north, at Stonebridge Park, which may not always be accessible via NR tracks overnight. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 2014\09\25 10:52, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 07:02:01 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: Does anyone know why the Bakerloo has been left out? Just speculation, but presumably the trains would sometimes be unable to use NR tracks overnight, thus limiting the service to south of Queen's Park (which would limit its usefulness). But the main depot is further north, at Stonebridge Park, which may not always be accessible via NR tracks overnight. Why would access to the main depot be needed? A few trains from the evening shift would run all night, and London Road could deal with any broken windows or other minor disasters. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:52:39 +0100
Recliner wrote: Just speculation, but presumably the trains would sometimes be unable to use NR tracks overnight, thus limiting the service to south of Queen's Park (which would limit its usefulness). But the main depot is further north, at Stonebridge Park, which may not always be accessible via NR tracks overnight. I'm surprised TfL haven't taken over the line euston - watford junction line yet. Do they not want it or is there some reason they can't have it? -- Spud |
Quote:
there is a shortage of proper taxis or minicabs. The touts hang around the areas where there are many late night travellers, e.g. Piccadilly Circus or outside known night spots and accost people who look as if they are trying to find a way of getting home. As there is no ready alternative available, the hapless travellers accept the proposition. When people arrive at their local Tube station, they have an alternative: the cab firm by the station. Apart from a few hopelessly drunk idiots, none will use a tout. As for well-known night spots in the suburbs, there is already considerable touting and there has been for decades. Again, the underlying condition is that there is no alternative available to people coming out of clubs, other than 'phoning a cab firm or - now - contacting Uber. I suspect that Uber will gradually kill off touting in the suburbs. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
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All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
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All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 30/09/2014 10:11, Neil Williams wrote: On 2014-09-25 16:36:42 +0000, d said: I'm surprised TfL haven't taken over the line euston - watford junction line yet. Do they not want it or is there some reason they can't have it? I don't think NR will let them have it. It's a potentially useful diversionary route. This makes it sound like it's something on the table - AFAIAA it's not. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:11:38 +0100
Neil Williams wrote: On 2014-09-25 16:36:42 +0000, d said: I'm surprised TfL haven't taken over the line euston - watford junction line yet. Do they not want it or is there some reason they can't have it? I don't think NR will let them have it. It's a potentially useful diversionary route. Makes sense I suppose. Though if they did own it there would always be the possibility of laying a 4th rail into Euston and running either a branch of the bakerloo or met line S Stock into there. Though whether that would make any operational sense is another matter. -- Spud |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 2014\09\30 10:11, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-09-25 16:36:42 +0000, d said: I'm surprised TfL haven't taken over the line euston - watford junction line yet. Do they not want it or is there some reason they can't have it? I don't think NR will let them have it. It's a potentially useful diversionary route. Only for diesel trains. |
All-night Tube trains from Sep 2015
On 2014-09-30 11:14:16 +0000, Basil Jet said:
I don't think NR will let them have it. It's a potentially useful diversionary route. Only for diesel trains. I think long-term it makes sense to wire it, north of H&W at least, and fit pantographs to the LO stock. Then it would be more useful for that purpose. Also, if there was a long-term block the shoegear could be refitted to the 350/1s. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
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