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Old November 22nd 14, 10:01 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Overground speed - or lack thereof

On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 23:07:15 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
making me nervous about making my connection. Once we were allowed to
depart (after umpteen freights and stock transfers were routed across
our path) the driver gave us a spritely run which probably clawed back
about 2 minutes of the delay. This meant it was less of a mad dash at
Gospel Oak for the Barking train. If that "catch up" time wasn't in
the run times then the connection may well have been missed extending
my journey time by 15 minutes.


Of course you could look at it from another point of view - if your train
had been going faster it could have got past the crossover before all
those other trains turned up.

Several of the routes do have closely spaced stations so there's
little point drawing a load of electricity to accelerate quickly and
then have to jam the brakes on. It's also not terribly comfortable for
passegers.


Doesn't seem to bother anyone on the ATO controlled tube lines which accelerate
the trains like scalded cats.

Punctuality and reliability are highly valued by passengers even if


Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.

The final point to make is that the slowish running speed doesn't seem
to deter passengers given how overloaded the trains are. If they were


Well its detered me. If I continue on the victoria and change at green
park to the jubilee it almost always gets me to canada water quicker than
the ELL even though its a much longer distance.

see the point. Let's face it the network is vastly better than what
was there before and it is receiving hundreds of millions of extra
investment to raise capacity.


Personally I think the ELL should have remained a tube line and stayed on
its own tracks. Running over NR lines is just asking for delays plus the
longer the route is the more than can go wrong.

--
Spud

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Old November 22nd 14, 02:49 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Overground speed - or lack thereof

On Saturday, 22 November 2014 11:01:54 UTC, wrote:
Punctuality and reliability are highly valued by passengers even if


Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.


It isn't though, passengers to/from the southern branches seem to treat it as a timetabled
service on the whole - at my local station (Norwood Junction) the bulk of passengers in the
morning peak turn up just before the train. It might be only 4tph but equally spaced at the
same times all day so it's easy for people to get used to the times, which helps.

The final point to make is that the slowish running speed doesn't seem
to deter passengers given how overloaded the trains are. If they were


Well its detered me. If I continue on the victoria and change at green
park to the jubilee it almost always gets me to canada water quicker than
the ELL even though its a much longer distance.


But with the inconvenience of the not very convenient change at Green Park.

Personally I think the ELL should have remained a tube line and stayed on
its own tracks. Running over NR lines is just asking for delays plus the
longer the route is the more than can go wrong.


I thought that too and that the ELL "extensions" were a white elephant -
creating a fake "new" service. I was wrong though, and the passenger
numbers seem to prove there was a latent demand there. I rarely use it
myself but the trains are standing only at Norwood Junction in the mornings,
and rammed by the time they get to the old ELL.

On that route it's also had the side-effect of a far better service to London
Bridge on the Croydon route, which surprised me - the reduced London Bridge
service has less crowding. The downside is stations between New Cross Gate
and Anerley have a far worse service to East Croydon and beyond than previously;
as a result Norwood Junction is actually used as an interchange these days.

Despite all the NR line running it's remarkably reliable!

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Old November 22nd 14, 04:45 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Overground speed - or lack thereof

On 2014\11\22 15:49, Mark wrote:
On Saturday, 22 November 2014 11:01:54 UTC, wrote:
Punctuality and reliability are highly valued by passengers even if


Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.


It isn't though, passengers to/from the southern branches seem to treat it as a timetabled
service on the whole - at my local station (Norwood Junction) the bulk of passengers in the
morning peak turn up just before the train. It might be only 4tph but equally spaced at the
same times all day so it's easy for people to get used to the times, which helps.


For much of the week, the trains to and from Crystal Palace and Croydon
follow each other on and off the main section instead of being about 7
minutes apart with the New Cross and Clapham trains between them. So
anyone commuting between, say Brockley and Wapping has a very bunched
service. Was that really the only way to fit the trains in?

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cm...-timetable.pdf
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Old November 23rd 14, 12:27 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Overground speed - or lack thereof

On Saturday, 22 November 2014 17:45:30 UTC, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\22 15:49, Mark wrote:
On Saturday, 22 November 2014 11:01:54 UTC, wrote:
Punctuality and reliability are highly valued by passengers even if

Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.


It isn't though, passengers to/from the southern branches seem to treat it as a timetabled
service on the whole - at my local station (Norwood Junction) the bulk of passengers in the
morning peak turn up just before the train. It might be only 4tph but equally spaced at the
same times all day so it's easy for people to get used to the times, which helps.


For much of the week, the trains to and from Crystal Palace and Croydon
follow each other on and off the main section instead of being about 7
minutes apart with the New Cross and Clapham trains between them. So
anyone commuting between, say Brockley and Wapping has a very bunched
service. Was that really the only way to fit the trains in?

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cm...-timetable.pdf


As far as I understand it from what was said when it was introduced, yes. It required massive service
changes on the London Bridge - Croydons - beyond route to accommodate the Overground timetable,
and presumably a clockface timetable on the individual branches was a goal.

Stations beyond West Croydon lost their stopping services to London Bridge and their semi-fast services
other than a handful in the peaks. Many services via West Croydon were diverted to the fast lines
between Norwood and London Bridge (resulting in the pretty odd situation that Norwood Junction has
a better service to London Bridge between the peaks than in peak - 6tph fast and 2tph stopping)
Likewise stations south of London Bridge now have a poor direct service to East Croydon. Two of
the 6tph (Horsham via Gatwick) have since been changed to make a stop a New Cross Gate as a
slight improvement to that (with another benefit that the original ELL stations are now a single
change from Gatwick)

The losers were definitely passengers from south of the Croydons wanting the intermediate stops, and
passengers from those intermediate stops travelling south of Croydon.
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Old November 23rd 14, 12:40 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Overground speed - or lack thereof

On Sunday, 23 November 2014 01:27:50 UTC, Mark wrote:
As far as I understand it from what was said when it was introduced, yes. It required massive service
changes on the London Bridge - Croydons - beyond route to accommodate the Overground timetable,
and presumably a clockface timetable on the individual branches was a goal.


(And Sydenham - New Cross Gate is 12tph - at a very even pattern too - which must be close to the realistic maximum for the line I'd have thought? If I remember right from when I lived there that's
double the service there was before London Overground)


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Old November 24th 14, 08:49 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Overground speed - or lack thereof

On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:49:27 -0800 (PST)
Mark wrote:
On Saturday, 22 November 2014 11:01:54 UTC, wrote:
Well its detered me. If I continue on the victoria and change at green
park to the jubilee it almost always gets me to canada water quicker than
the ELL even though its a much longer distance.


But with the inconvenience of the not very convenient change at Green Park.


TBH the walk from the victoria to the jubilee at green park isn't that much
further than from the victoria to the ELL at highbury.

I thought that too and that the ELL "extensions" were a white elephant -
creating a fake "new" service. I was wrong though, and the passenger
numbers seem to prove there was a latent demand there. I rarely use it
myself but the trains are standing only at Norwood Junction in the mornings,
and rammed by the time they get to the old ELL.


Strange. I wonder where they're all going. Hipsters commuting to/from shorditch
or Hoxton?

--
Spud


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Old November 26th 14, 01:36 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Overground speed - or lack thereof

On 2014\11\26 14:18, David Cantrell wrote:

Lots of them get off at Canada Water. I presume that they're heading for
the Jubilee line and Canary Wharf.


I've just noticed that a straight line from Bermondsey Station to Canary
Wharf Station pretty much goes through Rotherhithe Station. Does anyone
know why Canada Water was built at all?
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